If you like Dartmouth, you might like....

<p>As I was selecting schools, I researched many and visited some of them. While I locked on to Dartmouth as an ED school, there were alot of schools I liked, some with characteristics of Dartmouth. Here are some, not all were for me:</p>

<p>Williams -- Beautiful campus; felt larger than it is; excellent athletics; new performing arts center with a commitment to the arts; super Oxford-like tutorial program; slightly more "genteel" community than D's, the cow being more timid (and more ruminative) than the moose; nearly as selective.</p>

<p>Middlebury -- Rural, campus beauty; great language program like D's; felt much smaller than D and Williams and even more off the beaten path; big international orientation; good athletics; commitments to arts with great performing arts center; a little bit like a younger cousin of D's; very selective but not like D.</p>

<p>Colgate -- Beautiful campus, a bit like a slighlty less intellectual D but with a solid core curriculum; extensive, close-knit and loyal alumni who are helpful in career-networking; frat scene not unlike D. Solid. Less selective than D.</p>

<p>Carleton -- Beautiful rural campus 60 minutes south of the Twin Cities; a little bit more brainy and zany, as a whole, than D and more single-threaded around pure academics. Trimester system a little like some aspects of the D Plan. Typically attracts a lot of very strong students from the Midwest that would fit well at D; very selective but not like D; extremely high quality place.</p>

<p>Pomona -- Beautiful campus in sunny (smoggy) Southern California, a small LAC but with access to other Clarement colleges, has best of both worlds like D. Like Carleton and Williams, excellent academics within an equally rich community. Nearly as selective as D, but some geographic advantages for East Coasters. </p>

<p>Vassar -- Beautiful campus; a feminized version of D and Williams due to testosterone-lower history; for the gentler, softer among us it has much to offer, especially in the arts and humanities. Also very decent record with pre-meds. It feels "Ivy League". Selective, but not crazy admissions. </p>

<p>These schools play variations on some, but not all, of Dartmouth's themes. Depending on what you like and what you are like some of them might work for you. </p>

<p>I could easily get my mind around each of them with the exception of Colgate.</p>

<p>What's your take on Amherst and Wesleyan, as long as you're walking us through the general neighborhood?</p>

<p>I didn't like Wesleyan at all -- small campus, in a small depressed city, with little sense of coherence. I also couldn't take for a minute the extreme PC culture that appears quite entrenced there. I sat in on a class and it felt like people were speaking with one another as if they were representatives of delegations and not simply people trying to communicate openly and honestly with one another. It was weird. I don't see it as like Dartmouth in anyway.</p>

<p>Amherst is OK. The campus is in the center of town, which is nice, though it too doesn't quite have the coherence of D's or Williams'. Reminds me a lot of Harvard, a tiny version, in that it has an astringement academic feel to it. D and Williams seem a bit better rounded. I like the idea of the Five College Exchange but don't know how well it works in practice.</p>

<p>I've found that there seems to be a congruence between the set of people who have their sights set on Dartmouth and the set of those who set their eyes on Princeton. I know that there are internationals who have similar grouses about both colleges as well.</p>

<p>My list of favorite schools after Dartmouth: I love "laid back" schools with great academics and happy students on beautiful campuses with a great community spirit (i.e. alums keep in touch, lots of tradition and "big" weekends, and a LACy feel). </p>

<p>More selective than D:
Princeton
Yale
Stanford</p>

<p>As Selective as D:
Brown
Amherst</p>

<p>Less selective than D:
Pomona (close to as selective)
Middlebury
Vassar
UNC
Colgate</p>

<p>BalletGirl, it seems like you're putting a ton of stock into the beauty of the campus. I can see where you're coming from, but I didn't pick Amherst for the beauty (I would have gone to Williams if that had been my priority). Amherst's campus can be quite lovely (like right now, when it's blanketed in snow) but I don't think it is particularly beautiful, at least not in the grandiose, ostentatious way that so many students seem to love. Amherst's beauty is very simple. The school is wonderful, though, and I don't even know where you're coming from with it having an "astringement [??] academic feel to it" - it has an open curriculum, you do realize, and an exchange that gives it options to rival most any university. I'm also confused by what you said about it being "less well rounded" than Williams and Dartmouth - at least socially (and probably certainly academically) Amherst is generally considered more well rounded than Williams - though I don't know enough about Dartmouth to compare it.</p>

<p>I like slipper's list, though.</p>

<p>How is Darmouth compared to Brown, according to you, BalletGirl?</p>

<p>unregistered,</p>

<p>I like slipper's list too. One of the dimensions of D that many like is that iconic college feel -- Dwight Eisenhower's comment, "This looks like a college." While Amherst is pretty, its campus doesn't have quite the impact of D or some of the other I've listed. My experience with friends I have known who at Amherst, is that would they would be a bit more comfortable at H than D. These are minor differences to be sure.</p>

<p>slipper,</p>

<p>I agree on Princeton but I saw Yale differently. Its campus is awesome, but I found the whole feel of the place more intimidating than comfortable. Brown, a super place, I felt wouldn't appeal to a lot of D students. I purposely didn't list those more selective than D.</p>

<p>balletgirl - Williams' campus more "coherent" than Amherst's? All the buildings face Route 2 which splits the campus in two. D has a beautiful central campus, but, like many modern universities, it tends to run out of steam once you get past the campus green. Wesleyan has done some nimble renovating. I don't see much difference between it and Amherst in terms of general attractiveness. By the end of 2010 all three Little Three colleges will have a fairly inoffensive blend of modern and traditional buildings ringing their respective campus greens.</p>

<p>As for Wesleyan's so-called, PC atmosphere. At least there is classroom participation at Wesleyan. Not sure how you can peer into someone's soul and tell whether they are speaking "honestly and openly". Maybe, in the same way that an entire town can be labeled "depressed" because blue collar people find it affordable?</p>

<p>johnwesley,</p>

<p>Different strokes for different folks. I'm just stating an opinion. </p>

<p>Wesleyan is a good enough place, I just don't see it as an attractive alternative for many folks who really like D.</p>

<p>Are you a little sensitive about the school you've got named after you or have you had too much caffeine this morning??</p>

<p>Sorry. I thought criticism was a two-way street.</p>

<p>tetris,</p>

<p>On Brown. I liked it a lot and had completed its application for ED.</p>

<p>Brown has a different feel than D and some of the other schools I mentioned. It has a very attractive campus in a beautiful section of Providence (East Side has one of the greatest collection of homes in the Federalist style in the US) -- a nice suburban feel. The students appeared more eclectic (attracted to the Open Curriculum) and a tad more hip, artsy (maybe because of link to RISD). </p>

<p>Social scene is also I think a bit more diverse due to student body and location, which is very attractive.</p>

<p>If anyone is interested in actual information on Amherst, not from a highschool senior, feel free to PM me. :) </p>

<p>The campus, funnily enough, is quite cohesive - it's well layed out, has a great central freshma quad, and 1,000 acres of trails and wilderness and santuaries. Whether or not you like the simpler brick buildings, few would argue that it feels collegial. Then again, most people probably don't go to college as much to look at buildings as some posters here might be.</p>

<p>... the local bar.</p>

<p>Thanks for those impressions, everyone; maybe this can help my son determine which schools he'll actually apply to. Many of his favorites are on your various lists, but we didn't get to visit Williams, Middlebury or Wesleyan, so this input is helpful. </p>

<p>He loved the feel of Amherst (and I agree that it's beautiful - at least to a Westerner who is not surrounded by lovely old buildings in day to day life). It's not a great fit for his interest in film, but that's not a deal breaker. The big challenge is getting in, of course; unless Amherst values great test scores over GPA, his chances don't seem too good. Same with Brown, which he loved - would you expect Brown to be more selective than Dartmouth, or about the same? (Thanks, slipper, for your selectivity rankings!) A big question right now is whether he should even apply to these two, which have long been at the top of his list, along with Dartmouth.</p>

<p>The film interest puts Wesleyan on the list, but we know little about it. There's a Wes kid with a very good photography website, and the pix of Wesleyan people make them appear self-consciously PC, almost pretentious - like students of my generation who wore army boots and hippie skirts and smoked Gauloise cigarettes. And what's up with this "moaning" thing they do???</p>

<p>I know people love Middlebury, but is it a great enough school that it's worth travelling from the west coast and paying $50k per year to go to school out in the middle of rural Vermont? It's gorgeous, and we love Vermont, but I wonder if students find it a little bit small and confining for 4 years?</p>

<p>He'll apply to Pomona, but I wish I could sell him on Carleton. He just doesn't want to go to the midwest, or south. Oh well, I suppose it's good to have some limits on the scope of the search. We wouldn't want it to get too out of hand :)</p>

<p>Middlebury small and confining? I assume you mean the town, because it's a much larger school than most of the others you mention (except for Wesleyan).</p>

<p>Yes, I meant the whole context - small town that's pretty far away from larger cities. (BTW, do people fly into Burlington? Just wondering how long the trek would be from the Northwest) I've heard anecdotes of students who do multiple study-abroad stints just to get away, but that could be a tiny fraction of people.</p>

<p>rainmama, has your son ever considered Northwestern and its film program? Its about the same size as Dartmouth, in a suburb of Chicago (but a good hour away by public transporation).</p>

<p>School</a> of Communication at Northwestern University :: Radio/Television/Film :: Radio/Television/Film</p>

<p>Hey guys, I posted this before on Brown vs. Dartmouth but I thought it might be helpful.</p>

<p>This is so close to home, so I guess I'll write alot. Dartmouth/ Brown was my main choice and I ended up choosing Dartmouth but not after some serious thinking. The funny thing is that even after serious contemplation, I literally could not decide and choose Dartmouth basically after a coin flip of sorts lol! During college I visited Brown probably 7-8 weekends, however, so I know it really well. The great news is there is no wrong choice: I loved Dartmouth more than anything, but I am totally convinced I would have loved Brown just as much. These are by far my two of most favorite schools (throw in Stanford as the other). </p>

<p>Selectivity_________
Addressing the selectivity post. My experience is both are equally selective, perhaps Dartmouth diversity and SAT focused and Brown more "hook" focused. Dartmouth slightly higher accept rate (15 vs 14%) can be discounted IMO by the fact that its more self-selective. </p>

<p>1) Academics/ recruiting</p>

<p>They are both incredibly strong academically, with very similar placement rates into the top grad schools. Brown's widely known for having no distributives, which means you don't have to take any classes you don;t want to. Dartmouth's distributives are very broad but I liked being forced me to take a couple classes (like Acting for my art) that I might otherwise not have taken. Dartmouth is awesome in terms of teaching and professor engagement, and the school is absolutely focused on the undergrad. I was an anthro major and I got $10K for my thesis research and TWO incredibly active thesis advisors. I literally had some classes with less than five people at the upper levels. Dartmouth professors take you to dinner, they encourage you, and they are amazing. I think part of the reason Dartmouth grads do so well at grad school admissions is the fact that they know their professors so well. Frankly its amazing. I am sure Brown's academics are great too, but Dartmouth does have a terrific LAC-like feel. People love to discard the D-plan but I thought it was awesome. Sophomore summer is most students favorite term.</p>

<ol>
<li>Recruiting
Dartmouth does do better with traditional firms (investment banks, consulting) in my experience. Both are very strong, however. </li>
</ol>

<p>Study Abroad?
Most students at Dartmouth go on a study abroad, many go on 2-3. Its not only a thing to do, its a way of life. The language programs are OUTSTANDING, you not only have small classes a preperation, you have drill with its "rassias method" which is an amazingly fun way to really learn a language. Study abroad programs include a professor and about 20 other Dartmouth students (which is different from other schools which have people from al schools). There are special trips every weekend and you get to become incredibly close to your fellow Dartmouth students. Also since Dartmouth is on the quarter system it allows for multiple study abroads.</p>

<p>3) Campus location and closest city/town location
In my opinion Brown's nearby Thayer Street blows Hanover out of the water. East Providence is hip, cool, and there are alot of great restaurants and it really does cater to students. Providence itself isn't that wonderful, but its awesome in the area where Brown is located. Conversely, Hanover is beautiful but I found the town to be more stodgy and its not catered to students. In terms of the city, Brown wins bigtime.</p>

<p>ON the other hand, Dartmouth's location in the mountains is amazing. The outdoor access is awesome, people ski during the winters on the skiway, jump in the river in summers. To be honest only a select group of students are into the hardcore outdoors. Its the casual outdoor stuff like snowball fights during the winter, riding your bike through the beautiful fall leaves, the swimming in the river during summers, BBQs by houses on the river, the awesome stars when you are out at night, etc, etc. During the summer the campus feels like a magical summer camp, during the winters its charming and warm.</p>

<p>4) Social scene
Brown is very active socially. The dorms restrictions are very lax so first-year parties abound. There are house parties, frat parties, bars, and people even venture downtown to clubs. Its a more cliquey scene, however. Different groups tend to stick together more, so its less community oriented. It feels more like a University than Dartmouth, which is a good or bad thing depending on what you are looking for.</p>

<p>Dartmouth is very community oriented. The Greek scene is huge, but its unlike any other greek scene anywhere. The houses are all open for parties to everyone and there's actually a campus list publishing the big parties that weekend. What usually happens is there will be two-three big dance parties a night plus lots of houses will have smaller groups hanging out. The cool thing is there is usally alot of energy as everyone is going to the same key places or are at least aware of the big parties. Its absolutely open and everyone is absolutely friendly. In addition to the greek scene there is a house party scene, smaller gatherings in dorms, plus niche scenes like the organic farm crowd or the Ledyard Canoe club crowd. The nights are full of activity. Dartmouth's downside might be that its jock culture does have power with the frats, places like Chi Heorot, Theta Delt, and Psi U are centered around sports teams and I think this can intimidating. The upside is there is a large social scene outside these places.</p>

<p>I think its safe to say Brown has smaller gatherings for niche groups (although there are big parties!), while Dartmouth has bigger parties that everyone goes to all the time.</p>

<p>5) Campus population
Both are equally diverse, although Dartmouth is conceived as less diverse than Brown the truth is they are about equal. But since its smaller the sheer number of members of these groups is smaller so it might feel less diverse. However, people interact between groups at Dartmouth amazingly well. Yet I think some minority groups find comfort in sticking together and someone who grew up only hanging out with a particular minority crowd might like Brown more. Also, Brown does "feel" more international in terms of student makeup.</p>

<p>In terms of student politics I would say there is a huge overlap of "liberal" students at both. Dartmouth is more accepting of people with a conservative (libertarian) point of view, but overall I'd say 75-80% of Dartmouth is liberal while 85-90% of Brown is liberal. Frankly its not that large a difference.</p>

<p>Overall thought the students at Dartmouth overwhelmingly are the playful, fun loving, brilliant type. People tend to play down themselves which is great and refreshing among the Ivies. My experience with Brown students is that they are very similar but a little more "edgy."</p>

<p>I've been to and know alums from many many schools and hands down these two seem to provide the best college experience. You just can't go wrong.</p>

<p>How do you think Bowdoin compares to D? How about to Vassar? I loved D but also these other two. I agree with the earlier take on Vassar as a more "feminized" D, but what about the social life there among coeds? And what about Bowdoin's campus? Music and theatre?</p>