<p>You are not only participating in the weakening of the test itself and the meaningfulness of its results, but also perpetuating the selfsame class system that many of you claim to abhor.</p>
<p>welcome to capitalism.</p>
<p>A huge reason why ppl try to make a lot of money: to give their kids an advantage/opportunities.</p>
<p>Also bear in mind, any public library has SAT books. In any event. I think courses are overhyped.</p>
<p>It's pointless to debate this. We're about equality of opportunity, not equality of result, but ultimately this is an unreachable ideal. Nonetheless, in this day and age where information sharing is so prevalent and SAT books are so widespread, wealth no longer confers such an advantage on those who have it. It used to be that you just had to go to the right school/have the right family to get into the best colleges-Not anymore. </p>
<p>The age of globalization is here. Use every advantage you have.</p>
<p>who cares....Standardized tests are stupid anyway.</p>
<p>There's nothing wrong with preparing for a test and getting familiar with it so you can do the best you can. Test prep books are available at libraries and some schools even offer test prep as a course. What's not fair is being able to afford to take the test 8 times.</p>
<p>If colleges felt the same way, they wouldn't require the SAT, or they would ask if you prepped for it or not. Given that the purpose of the exam is determined by adcoms, why don't you let them decide what is or is not appropriate with regard to the SAT and preparation?</p>
<p>MIT, for one, doesn't mind test prep at all. If you want quotes, I'll provide them.</p>
<p>yep i agree..its all about capitalism</p>
<p>Gradagrad is confused.</p>
<p>Oh he's just bitter that he has to score high, cause people have set standards.</p>
<p>Seriously, grow up, gradatgrad.</p>
<p>@gradagrad - did not you get this out of your system two and a half years ago?
<a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/sat-act-tests-test-preparation/161642-i-cannot-stand-test-preparation.html%5B/url%5D">http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/sat-act-tests-test-preparation/161642-i-cannot-stand-test-preparation.html</a>
What's the point of this thread?</p>
<p>
Uh, obviously they don't. Why would a school disagree with anything that is likely to raise the average SAT scores they report to USNWR?</p>
<p>
No one really defended themselves well in that last thread. I figured I would give everyone in this forum another shot at it in 2008 to see if all those Kaplan classes have resulted in improved rhetoric, but just as I suspected, not the case.</p>
<p>you haven't refuted anything I said.</p>
<p>kungfumaster:</p>
<p>It seems like your argument wavers between two key points:</p>
<p>First, that test prep classes do not constitute an unfair advantage because prep books are freely available. It logically follows that you think prep classes and prep books are basically equivalent. If that were the case, why would any rational consumer spend his money on the classes?</p>
<p>Second, that equality of opportunity is an unreachable ideal. Why do you feel this way? I shudder to think about what the world would look like if every political leader in history took such a defeatist approach as you have.</p>
<p>"Uh, obviously they don't. Why would a school disagree with anything that is likely to raise the average SAT scores they report to USNWR?"</p>
<p>Exactly. So the purpose of the test is not at all defeated. The people who determine how the test is used are the adcoms. The purpose of the test is what they say it is. That's how the system works. So if the purpose of the test is to place yourself above others by any means (short of cheating, etc.), and the adcoms condone this, then the meaningfulness of the test is not reduced or lessened. That is because the adcoms don't say it is, and they are the only ones who matter.</p>
<p>"I figured I would give everyone in this forum another shot at it in 2008 to see if all those Kaplan classes have resulted in improved rhetoric, but just as I suspected, not the case."</p>
<p>Says the person making unsubstantiated claims that are simply meant to incite others.</p>
<p>"First, that test prep classes do not constitute an unfair advantage because prep books are freely available. It logically follows that you think prep classes and prep books are basically equivalent. If that were the case, why would any rational consumer spend his money on the classes?"</p>
<p>Check out the prep threads. Some people work better when forced to, and in a very structured environment. Classes are a way to do that. Marketing could be another factor; these people could be swindled out of their money by slick advertisements. You haven't shown that classes lead to higher scores, which means that your entire claim is currently invalid.</p>
<p>Summary: You're wrong.</p>
<p>"Second, that equality of opportunity is an unreachable ideal. Why do you feel this way? I shudder to think about what the world would look like if every political leader in history took such a defeatist approach as you have."</p>
<p>Irrelevant. Please stick to the issue at hand.</p>
<p>Man, this IS fun! I suggest you think before you type, it may help. Remember, you have offered not a shred of evidence. Rhetoric? Try using it.</p>
<p>Gradagrat is a genius. He's right, This nation is corrupt. Who do we think we are- feeding our students with lies and deceit through college preparatory classes. These blasphemous institutions must be eradicated immediately for the sake of our countries future. Heck, we're only kidding ourselves, this is obviously an unfair battle field-injecting kids with a false sense of accomplishment by allowing them to study for the all-knowing SAT Examination. The world needs more men like gragagrat, a man whose done so much without preparatory classes of any sort. Everything about this nation is pretentious; I can't believe we actually gave Thomas Edison credit for all his work, he spent years studying the functionality of all sorts of incredible gadgets from books! This is outrageous. What's sad is that its the 21st century and i still don't know how to build a Uranium Graphite reactor -i should kill my self. We must distribute the IQ examination to every child in this nation and isolate those who score under the 99 percentile to ensure equality. I can't believe we didn't think of this sooner! Thank you Gradgarat.</p>
<p>PS: Baelor, you're just a hater. Cancel your Kaplan Membership and then we'll see how you fare against the great GRADAGRAT.</p>
<p>
Really, you need me to Google some stats for you to admit that test prep raises scores? Maybe the problem here is deeper than I thought...</p>
<p>@Quix: Your sarcasm is not lost on me, but I think you should take the image of Thomas Alva Edison in a Kaplan class and run with it. That's a hell of a premise for a TV show.</p>
<p>This is typical class-warfare nonsense, and you, more likely than not, are a troll. </p>
<p>You failed to acknowledge my third over-arching point; things have improved! It used to be that rich kids would just go on to good colleges, no questions asked. Globalization has made everything more competitive, and diminished the advantage of going to these schools. Why not let people compete?</p>
<p>The fact of the matter is it's pointless to bring down the rich. The problem at hand is the poor quality of public education for the poor. Equal opportunity shouldn't be thought of through limiting the educational opportunities of the privileged. What you're doing is instigating, and does not help improve the quality of education for those who could use that improvement the most.</p>
<p>Secondly, let's talk values. Every American wants to succeed in some sense. Rich parents often have multiple college degrees, and value education. One can really argue it's a matter of culture and priorities to some extent. People can spend their money on what they want based on their values. Yes, some will have less money in the first place, but in this country we do not want equality of result. </p>
<p>Conclusion:abandon this thread. Go tutor kids in need of tutoring. That's what I, and probably many other kids here, do.</p>
<p>I am not a troll. Since when is frank, open, and honest debate the mark of one? </p>
<p>
[quote]
You failed to acknowledge my third over-arching point; things have improved!
[/quote]
Alright, but why shouldn't we strive to improve them further?</p>
<p>
[quote]
The fact of the matter is it's pointless to bring down the rich. The problem at hand is the poor quality of public education for the poor. Equal opportunity shouldn't be thought of through limiting the educational opportunities of the privileged. What you're doing is instigating, and does not help improve the quality of education for those who could use that improvement the most.
[/quote]
No, the problem at hand is this: There are two students, Pepe and Tyler. Pepe and Tyler are extremely similar students; they would look exactly the same on paper to an admissions counselor. They have the exact same interests, their high schools are equivalent in quality, both are valedictorians, both got a 210 on the PSAT, both are class president, et cetera, ad infinitum. </p>
<p>EXCEPT: Tyler's parents make $250k/year more than Pepe's, and Tyler gets sent to Princeton Review classes, while Pepe is forced to do his best SAT preparation at the local public library. As a result, Tyler scores 2350 on the SAT while Pepe scores 2130. Tyler gains admission to School XYZ, Pepe does not. SOLELY as a function of parental income.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Secondly, let's talk values. Every American wants to succeed in some sense. Rich parents often have multiple college degrees, and value education. One can really argue it's a matter of culture and priorities to some extent. People can spend their money on what they want based on their values. Yes, some will have less money in the first place, but in this country we do not want equality of result.
[/quote]
This is like saying rich suburban parents value Lexuses and BMWs more than poor urban mothers. Just because they can afford them doesn't make this necessarily true.</p>