I used to work in the marketing group of a very large medical corporation. When D became interested in liberal arts such as History rather than the (also liberal art of) Chemistry, I was concerned about her future if she didn’t want to teach. I started to ask around to see what majors people had. I worked in the corporate offices, with lots of VPs and directors.
The results surprised me. History, Spanish, English, Psychology, Sociology, Math - the degrees were all over the place. Interestingly enough very few had business-related undergrads. Some had earned MBAs after being in the workforce for several years.
Somehow or other these folks had managed to overcome their choice of major and still manage to succeed in life (sarcasm font off).
A lot of times the answer is taking an entry-level job and working hard and showing value. Your major does not define your life. The original post mentions making a transition into the tech world - often that can be done by taking some courses at a community college and then earning a tech certification. I’ve worked with so many developers, project managers, and business analysts who had varied majors from music to nursing! Yes, it may be harder for a while - but it is doable.
There are several industries (first jobs) that require specific majors or course work. Big 4 accountants essentially need to be accounting majors or at least get their MSA in accounting. Most engineering jobs require an engineering background, passing the bar typically requires law school.
Lots of other high paying and meaningful jobs don’t require specific majors: banking, consulting, sales, Leadership Development Programs, etc.
Some schools have very strong career service offices that do a great job educating employers about their school and student body (total), not just their business or engineering students. I would strongly suggest applicants to find out as much about that as possible and make it a meaningful part of the college selection process. There are first destination reports available on line. Some break it down by school or major so you can actually see where non stem kids are going after graduation.
There are way more college graduates who are “non-stem liberal arts” major than “stem” major, so, if anecdotally people meet some executives/ “financially successful” people and find out that they actually are the proverbial “English major”, they take note and they selectively remember.
The problem we are facing today is having too many poorly educated psychology/English majors flipping burgers or stacking books in B&N, while not enough engineers or doctors (who by definition should have critical thinking skills) to build and to cure.
I think one of the main reasons that fewer kids pursuing STEM is because of the poorly designed math/science curriculum in our k-12 schools, this weak foundation lets many talented kids become scared of math at a very early age. And weak math skills severely limited these students’ potential in pursuing stem majors in college.
At the same time, non-stem k-12 education have been limited to history (super focused on US history) and English literature; philosophy, world history, world literature, arts, music, and many other humanity courses have been shrunk or eliminated. American kids are US-centered with English-only proficiency (many don’t even have that), it is hard not to be narrow-minded/lack of critical thinking skills after being educated as such for so many years.
It’s hard to make the claim that we don’t have enough doctors when the med schools, AMA, etc. do such a great job of limiting the number of spots in Med school. As long as the gatekeepers care more about keeping physician incomes high and limiting the number of new doctors than they do about training the next generation, it’s hard to make the claim that we don’t have “enough” doctors. Thousands of kids who could be fine physicians don’t get into a single medical school. Just not enough seats.
Let’s not overlook the increasing larger number of trained physicians who have opted out of patient care full time or part time to go into administration, business ventures and family care.
That may be true, however in my 30+ year career in IT, I’ve often found myself in a very small minority of folks who have computer science degrees. Of course I’ve never worked at Facebook or Google - however the sample size of one former Apple software architect I know was an individual with a law degree.
There are many jobs that don’t exist as majors in college - or are just starting to show up in programs. Working as a software business analyst is one - most successful business analysts I’ve met had majors that required a lot of critical thinking and writing and picked up the technical part on the job. No, they don’t write code - but it’s a very well-paying job. Technical writing is another path - I’ve met many a technical writer who majored in Sociology or Anthropology. Can’t recall meeting any who had computer science degrees. Product managers are anther role where it’s more important to be able to communicate clearly with non-tech folks than to know how to write code.
Same with software project management. The project managers I’ve worked with had degrees in history, accounting, engineering - all over the place. The common element was they managed to get enough project hours in one way or another to qualify to take the PMP exam and they passed. What matters to hiring managers is they have a college degree and the PMP certification.
I haven’t met very many people who are successful in software development sales roles with STEM degrees. Sure, if I met one I’d remember them - but I haven’t
So perhaps my experiences in companies ranging from a 4 person start-up to IBM are anecdotal and should be taken with a grain of salt. But somehow many of those “non-stem liberal arts” majors are finding jobs more lucrative than barista. The jobs won’t fall into your lap - but with drive and initiative and continuing education/certification, there are many more opportunities out there than you would think reading a lot of these threads.
Without Liberals arts education my nerd math science kids will not be able to think logically and write critically. I wish they have taken more courses in philosphy and psychology. My spouse missed the liberals art education entierly after high school, what a tremendous loss as he complains now that lack of liberal arts in college made his progress stalled.
Reading the title of this thread brings to mind the Odyssey in which Odysseus was said to be “skilled in all ways of contending.” He used his wits as well as his physical strength. The Odyssey was the very first book that I and every other first year students at Reed read. (In some years it was the Iliad instead.) But we talked about the idea of versatility.
I was reluctant when my daughter wanted to attend an art school for college, but reassured by the actual curriculum at RISD when I visited there, including the ability to take some courses at Brown University. She is a talented artist. But it turned out that it was a couple of courses that she took at Brown that led her to an interest in environmental design, and subsequently defined her career (in which she also ended up earning an MBA and an MS in sustainable systems). She has skills in many ways of contending.
I had no doubt that my son, by attending the University of Chicago, would get a broad exposure to arts and sciences, as well as specific theoretical knowledge and analytic skills in his economics major. It wasn’t initially his idea to apply there, but I knew the university, and it turned out to be an excellent fit for him. He can do technical, statistical analysis; and he can write. It really helps that he reads widely. Skilled in many ways of contending.
Wouldn’t what you are saying be more like “we don’t have enough doctors because the med schools, AMA, etc. do such a great job of limiting the number of spots in Med school because they care more about keeping physician incomes high and limiting the number of new doctors than they do about training the next generation”?
A problem with using say the careers of 50-year olds to predict what now 20-year olds will do is that the entry job market could have (and in my view probably has) changed significantly in the intervening 30 years.
Math and science are liberal arts, and math majors, of all college students, should be among the best at thinking logically (though not always the best at communicating math concepts to non-math-oriented people).
Is there a critical distinction you are making here @ucbalumnus ? Sounds like exactly the same statement to me. Med schools keep numbers low because residencies are kept low.
@blossom wrote that “It’s hard to make the claim that we don’t have enough doctors …”, which is different from claiming that there actually is a shortage of doctors because the medical schools, residencies, etc. want to ensure that we don’t have enough doctors.
Of course, whether there is actually a shortage of doctors may depend on the specialty. Primary care seems to have the greatest shortage, probably because US medical school graduates have too much debt to be able to pay it off on primary care pay levels.
It’s not clear if there is a shortage of doctors in the aggregate. And it’s hard to suss out because the US has large numbers of foreign trained doctors who practice medicine here (chicken/egg?) AND we export med students to offshore med schools (most of whom return, some do not) AND of course because even though a pediatrician and a neurosurgeon are both MD’s, their skills are not fungible except at a pre-specialty level.
Nonetheless- I think my original point still stands- a poster claimed that we “need” more doctors; but telling HS kids that they should be spending their college years gunning for med school may not be the best advice (at an aggregate level, for an individual kid who is talented in this area? sure) given that med school and residency slots are rationed.
Writing skills, perhaps, but doing well in upper division math requires critical thinking skills. (In high school, the first math course that touches on CR is Geometry proofs.)
True. And a lot has changed, for example the explosion in entrepreneurship - which is even less restrictive with regards to college degrees.
Also, those of us over 50 are often the ones hiring the 20-year olds, so it’s not like we have zero insight into what the job market looks like today.
Things have changed significantly even since 2008 (thankfully), when there were very few entry-level jobs regardless of the degree you graduated with.
What hasn’t changed - and in fact employers are being more vocal about it - is the need to hire people who can think on their feet, who can do stellar presentations, who can seek out and capitalize on new opportunities, and who can help set strategies. All skills that humanities-type liberal arts can help strengthen.
What I have learned from both older daughters in their kind of multibillion dollar funds where they are employed that one need only simple math to do the investement analysis. However when a investors is investing in a single investment 10s of millions dollars, soft skills related to liberal arts skills are paramount as they take very long term view before investment is made. That has been drilled into kids head over and over again by their mentors who are very successful and these mentors are doing for a very very long time.
By the way both daughters took BC calc in early high school.
