IGETC Dilemma

Transfer Students UC Transfers
1

Hello all, so I have kind of a dilemma for IGETC. For a brief intro, I did 1 year at UC, 2nd year at CC, transferring back to UC this coming fall.

I didn’t worry too much about finishing IGETC (even though I wanted to/planned to), but now that Berkeley asks for a specific articulation of how I am getting IGETC certified, I am kinda worried because I don’t know if courses at UC will be able to meet IGETC subject requirements. I’ve been to quite a few counselors and they all say the same thing, that I just have to submit an IGETC certification request and they themselves will articulate which courses count. But I can’t do that until after I know which school I’m going to (because they are going to send it to a school). In short, there’s no way for me to know if my IGETC can be certified in advanced, and even when I tried to push for this, they said it would be “against policy”

Fortunately, due to my many AP tests, I’m able to fulfill quite a bit of IGETC. In addition, I took summer intersession + winter intersession at my CC, so I know those courses will count for sure. In the end, all I have left is ONE category, Category I, the English comp one which needs 2 writing courses. For the first I have AP Lang from hs, it’s just the second that’s my iffy one. I took writing at UC, but all the people I’ve been to have told me it’s not guaranteed to articulate back, they have to look at the UC course’s syllabus itself and determine it case-by-case.

So different things that could go down:

Best case scenario: my UC course articulates and is able to satisfy the IGETC category, and I’m IGETC certified with no problems
Bad case scenario: my course doesn’t, and I can’t get certified (BUT as a silver lining, I can probably get partial IGETC certification at the very least)
Potential resolution: I bite my tongue and just take the remaining English course at my CC. This would put me at 19 units for the spring, which kinda sucks, but at least grades aren’t that big of a concern

Usually it wouldn’t concern me because IGETC isn’t even a requirement for admission, but knowing now that Berkeley kinda wants to know if I’ll be IGETC certified (and asks specifically how I’m completing it), I’m in an iffy situation. Cause the answer to that for me is a…maybe?

Sorry if this was kinda long…just wanted to get everything across, and thanks if you read all of it!

2

I think you are over-worried. The requirement is a critical thinking writing course. You can call Berkeley and ask them to give you a definitive on whether they consider the UC class(es) from the other campus to satisfy that requirement. They will know what classes satisfy the requirement- they do inter-campus transfers all the time, and it is a required class at each UC; IGETC or not. I am assuming you did not get a 5 on the AP Literature & Comp test?

Or just tell them you believe you will have satisfied IGETC based on your assumptions; if you find it is not true when the syllabus is evaluated, you will take the required class at UCB when you arrive on campus.

3

Hmmm, you are in a bit of a sticky situation.

My first thought as I was reading was just to list your UC english class and let UCB decide if it fits or not.

However, I think the best thing would be to use assist to see what the 2nd level english is at your CC, read the course description, and compare it to the course you took. If they are similar enough, I think you are safe to list it on the UCB update. If it is drastically different, you should call UCB and ask if partial IGETC will affect your acceptance.

Also, condense what you posted here and put in in the additional comments section on the UCB update. Make sure to note how you are working hard to resolve it, too! There is a difference between “I have a problem” and “While I have a problem, I’m doing X, Y, Z to resolve it”

4

Thank you both for answering–I guess the first thing I’ll do is to at least call Berkeley to get an answer from them. I mean, I took two courses of writing at my UC too…

CC course/IGETC requirement is English Composition: Critical Thinking
The two UC writing courses I took are called “Critical Reading & Rhetoric” and “Argument & Research”, and given the nature of the classes (in addition to the fact that I did took two classes of writing), I am leaning more in the assumption that it would count, but again it’s not 100% for sure.

I mean in the end, the worst thing that can happen is I’ll just have to take 5 classes instead of 4, plus grades don’t matter that much in the spring, just as long as I don’t fail. But I may have to ask if I can reduce my work hours per week…even though it’s only part time, that in addition to 19 units will be @-)

5

Are they the typical intro classes that freshman take?

I was thinking for some reason you had taken some super specific class like “Celtic Literature from 1408 to 1509” or something similar that would be hard to articulate.

If they are the standard intro classes, you should have no problem listing them. They should be covered under UC-UC reciprocity.

Edit: I completely agree on the 19 unit thing. GPA is important since you don’t want your shiny acceptance revoked!

6

I am sure you will be fine, but DO call UCB! The fact that you took 2 should satisfy a full semester (2/3 > 1/2, but one class, 1/3 < 1/2) requirement.

Think of it this way; it’s like you finished a partial IGETC, then went to a UC, fulfilled the Critical Thinking Composition class, then inter-UC transferred to another UC (Berkeley or someplace else). So you did the steps backwards; I am sure they will be accepted just the same.

Verify, of course, but I think the odds are in your favor on this one.

7

@luckie1367 Ah yeah, it’s a basic writing GE class all freshmen took, so that’s another reason that it weighs in my favor. Currently, on my UCB form I have it listed there and just wrote in the additional comments “I will be using courses outside of CC to complete my IGETC”. And on the 19 units thing, I think I’d be able to handle it, I’d just barely skim by with lack of sleep. I guess I just wanted my “last semester” to be “chill” (since for transfers, this semester is sorta like the equivalent of 2nd semester of senior year in high school haha).

@ItsJustSchool yeah that’s one way of putting it; one reason it’s so strange is because it’s like backpedaling my college courses (usually people articulate CC to a UC, but UC to a CC is weird). But I’ll definitely call

Again thanks guys!

8

Hi @‌Bearly
I’m in the same situation as you, but I’ve been at a CCC just one year after high school (been taking classes since junior year) and I have the same concern because I’ve applied using my AP Lang score of a 3 to go exempt the first Composition course. I’m a bit worried myself, but after looking around for info I think we’re both safe…?

http://admission.universityofcalifornia.edu/counselors/files/ap-satisfy-admission-and-igetc-req.pdf
^Because this is straight from the UC website, I don’t think we should run into any problem! Hopefully LOL

9

@psychky, perfect! It used to be that the second required English course (“Critical Thinking”) required a ‘5’ on the AP Lit & Comp test (the first required a ‘3’ or better on either AP test). It looks like you are OK, if you also passed the AP Lit test, based on your chart.

If you do not have any 4-year university courses that you are applying to your IGETC certification, you can go in and ask your community college counselor to assess whether you will have satisfied IGETC by the time you leave CC.

I hope you both will graduate! It is fun to do the ceremony, and it helps the CC to show the graduation rate in their statistics. You could just take sufficient courses, certify IGETC, and transfer, of course.

10

Ok, I’m going to be the contrarian. The two English courses (or substitutes) are part of the minimum requirements needed for transfer admission. It’s a biggie. If they determine the other English class doesn’t fulfill it, you’re out. They will not count the missing Eng course as partial IGETC.

Why chance it? I’d take 19 units and cover yourself.

11

Well, I think you should call UC Berkeley (or other target school) and get it sorted.

It is a biggie, as @lindyk8 points out, but since it is a biggie, it is covered all sorts of ways. The Frosh UC courses you took most likely covered it. It is a required class (for credit) if you go through the summer transfer experience program at UCLA, even if you have already fulfilled the requirement. I do think that if you are “Partial IGETC” with this course missing, you are not jeopardizing admissions.

Very much worth the peace of mind of asking your target schools.

12

My only reason for bringing it up is that those two english classes are non-negotiable in any circumstance (or at least that is how they present it online). Even a notable person/celebrity who through monumental achievement can bypass all breadth, they still need completion of those two english classes.

@ItsJustSchool‌ is probably right. I’m only saying hoping for the best, or pretty sure, or whatever term you use to qualify, is chancy. For me, I would want a definitive answer one way or the other so I don’t shoot myself in the foot.

13

I just go off the phone with a Admissions Office rep and she told me that what they are looking for really is that you complete the IGETC. And if your community college takes the AP credit as a substitute and waives the class (i.e. English Composition section), as part of completing the IGETC, Berkeley will accept it as well.
It should not be a problem.

14

So, it is at the discretion of the CCC to waive that part and certify IGETC? Good to know. That could, in theory, work in other tricky subjects.

This is a big add to the process. Thx for checking, @psychky!

15

@psychky, my understanding from the OP is that s/he took the classes as a freshman at a UC, then transferred to CC. The question is whether the UC classes fulfill the requirement at another UC, and can be counted as part of IGETC, which is a formal articulation agreement FROM the CC system TO the UC system. So can s/he go one step towards CC from UC, then step from the CC to another UC and still be OK?

It’s not so much the AP–>IGETC question as it is the UC–>CC (IGETC) -->other UC question.

16

Right @itsjustschool. So it looks like OP might be back to square one. The odd thing is you’d think the UCs would have an immediate answer on this as it is their course.

I’m still sticking with just take another class…

17

@lindyk8‌ Yeah I thought the UC’s always made the last decision so I’m glad this was cleared up!

@ItsJustSchool‌ That’s true…I had forgotten about the UC class when I called. But it seems like if Berkeley leaves it up to the CCC to decide whether the applicant’s IGETC is completed, shouldn’t the OP ask their college counselor if it is accepted?

18

Not quite. The CC’s accept AP credit as satisfactory completion of a class according to an equivalence chart that is published. In this case, the CC has determined that a 3 or higher on the AP English Lit & Comp course satisfies their requirement for passing their English II (Critical Thinking) class. It is not case-by-case discretionary to waive a class. It is an equivalence matrix that is pre-determined.

19

OP presumably did ask the college counselor:

This is likely to be treated more like partial IGETC (since there is no articulation agreement between the systems going FROM UC TO CC), followed (in this case preceded) by taking two courses to complete the requirement left hanging in a partial IGETC. The question is whether or not the two courses will be accepted by the target UC to satisfy this requirement. It should be easy to call the target UCs (as you did) and find out.

20

Yeah, this whole thing seems like a mess. i was surprised a UC rep would say signing off on IGETC with a missing english course is at discretion of CCC. So that was a major shift in the process.

I didn’t realize an AP score of 3 writes off second but not first English course. That doesn’t seem right, as you need the earlier one as a pre-req and a score of three usually does not fulfill the higher one, even if an English comp class was taken. In other words, an actual english comp class and AP sore of 3 should cancel out one of them. They just don’t move the score elsewhere.

That’s another issue: will the UCs accept the AP score of 3 as fulfilling part 2 of English?

Perhaps the CCC should revert the AP score to fulfilling the first English and OP take the critical thinking. The whole thing appears to be totally messed up!