<p>for those of you at MIT, is it</p>
<p>I Hate This ****ing Place
I Have the Finest Proffesors
or
I Have truly found paradise?</p>
<p>My cousin just dropped out and is in Brown. I'm wondering what the breakdown is - how many nerds hve found heaven, and how many hate it. Do
the majority if your classmates hate it at MIT? Is suicide prevention day a heavy topic, or something ppl joke about?</p>
<p>
[quote]
Do the majority if your classmates hate it at MIT?
[/quote]
The majority? Dear lord.</p>
<p>Almost all of my friends loved MIT in general, but there were days or weeks or semesters that were particularly rough. I will admit to once having composed a song that went "If I went to state school, daidle deedle daidle digga digga deedle daidle dum... wouldn't have to work hard..." etc.</p>
<p>To be honest, though, I never hated MIT for the hard work. I was annoyed at myself when I took too many classes, but I didn't blame MIT for my decisions. But then, I have a really strong internal locus of control.</p>
<p>I had tough days and weeks and semesters. But I wouldn't have traded my experience at MIT for anything in the world.</p>
<p>Most of the time, I think it's a paradise - but there are times when you're going to feel like crap. I think most people are like this. It almost certainly won't be good ALL the time, but I don't really know bitter people who just hate MIT =D</p>
<p>Yeah, the point of the love/hate thing is that it exists within most people <em>individually</em> and not within the population. It's not that some people hate it and some people love it, it's that (almost) all of us do both, sometimes at the same time.</p>
<p>I'm sorry if that doesn't make any sense, but that's really the most honest answer I can give. =)</p>
<p>@Nick017,
Your cousin is definitely a minority, if he dropped out of MIT. MIT's retention statistics are available through U.S. News & World Report, and they're among the highest in the nation.</p>
<p>My daughter is a freshman at MIT, and she had many conversations during the previous two years with her uncle, who dropped out of MIT his senior year. But you know what? After all these years, her uncle still loves MIT. It's one of the regrets of his life, that he didn't stay and get the degree. </p>
<p>From my perspective, having heard all of her uncle's stories about how intense and difficult the work can be was helpful. She entered MIT with the idea of keeping the workload reasonable, knowing full well that she might encounter a student culture that sometimes encouraged students to take on an enormous amount of work as a sort of badge of honor. Coming in with the idea, "I'm not going down that path" has enabled her to have a really great first year.</p>
<p>I don't know anyone who doesn't actually like it here. Most people i know love it to a pretty serious degree. Suicide prevention is a campus joke. I personally wouldn't trade these years for anything. I dunno, I often times find it hard to express just how deeply connected to this place i feel.</p>
<p>but it's the only reason i stick around these boards. I don't want people to miss out on what I've had if I can help it.</p>
<p>How often do you feel really really swamped?</p>
<p>I've experienced that in high school (part time job, AP homework, millions of club presidencies and whatnot, church activities, Yearbook, yadda yadda yadda...).</p>
<p>And it's just not that much fun.</p>
<p>Four years at MIT isn't a constant feeling of stress... right?</p>
<p>Nope - and if you stay on top of things, it's not that bad =D</p>
<p>Thanks. I get what your saying, and calalum, that was very helpful.</p>
<p>Initially, I was very pleased that my child decided to go to MIT, but now I'm not so sure. I expected the large classes, but what I did not expect is the varying quality of t.a's, inconsistent grading policies, and especially the cavalier attitude of some of the professors. To provide some specific examples:
1. A chemistry professor refuses to provide reading assignments or practice questions. However, a different professor, teaching the same coure in the Fall semester, did both. So, if you're unlucky and are taking this semester's chemistry course, you have a harder time earning a respectable grade. It's pretty obvious that this current professor is simply reading from old notes, cannot be bothered to give students the equivalent reading passages in the text, and is uninterested in helping them prepare for the tests. His lack of sensitivity and/or consideration is reflective of his impatience in teaching freshmen. Why doesn't MIT monitor such sub-par teachers?<br>
There does not appear to be much concern for the QUALITY of undergrad. teaching. There is too much pride in the various Nobel Laureates teaching -- but few will divulge that many of these academic rock stars have relatively little contact with undergrads.<br>
2. After undergraduate education, there is a re-shuffling of the academic deck, and many ta's seem to come from schools that do not have quite the same degree of academic rigor as MIT. As a result, when faced with particularly difficult pset problems, students have sought help from their ta's -- only to be told that they, the "ta's" cannot do the problems either! Students are often forced to hunt for peers who can explain problems, as the quality of t.as is woefully inconsistent.
3. Grading is aso inconsistent. Same pset answers are awarded different grades by different t.as.<br>
4. There is grade deflation. MIT has a much lower success rate re-Med School admissions than the Ivies (70% v. 90+%). I suspect that entry stats. for top tier grad. and professional schools are similar (but I do not have the stats.). In one class an 81% was a C (the class average was 82).</p>
<p>My child is happy at MIT. Likes the other students. Is working reasonably hard, but is not killing self. To put above concerns in perspective -- child was valedictorian of extremely competitive high school, many awards, etc. If, however, I had known what I know now, I would have urged child to go elsewhere -- to, perhaps, a smaller school where professors have a more considerate approach to undergraduate teaching; or to a place where child's GPA would be more protected, thereby increasing grad. or professional school options.
Sorry if this entry offends many CC readers. I just think prospective students should be aware of some of the pitfalls. MIT is a good place, but is could, and SHOULD be a lot better.</p>
<p>
[quote]
There is grade deflation. MIT has a much lower success rate re-Med School admissions than the Ivies (70% v. 90+%).
[/quote]
The success rate for last year's undergrad med school applicants was 84%, which is not so different from 90%. The success rate for med school applicants who used preprofessional advising was in fact 90%.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I suspect that entry stats. for top tier grad. and professional schools are similar (but I do not have the stats.).
[/quote]
This is definitely not true -- graduate school admissions are not heavily GPA-based, and research experience and recommendations are more important than GPA at any rate. My entering PhD class (one of the top three programs in the country) has 10 MIT alums out of 70 students.</p>
<p>
[quote]
students have sought help from their ta's -- only to be told that they, the "ta's" cannot do the problems either! Students are often forced to hunt for peers who can explain problems, as the quality of t.as is woefully inconsistent.
[/quote]
Students have the ability to pick and choose TAs in almost all classes -- if the TA appears inadequate after the first few sections, the student can and should switch to another section. Even if the student does not want to go to the trouble of switching sections, he or she is free to go to a better TA for homework help.</p>
<p>For that matter, I don't see why seeking help from fellow students is inferior to seeking help from TAs. What's the difference, if the problem gets solved?</p>
<p>
[quote]
Grading is aso inconsistent. Same pset answers are awarded different grades by different t.as.
[/quote]
This could be true (although in most classes, a standard grading key is made up for TAs to follow). However, problem sets are worth a small portion of the grade in virtually every class -- a few points on a problem set is almost certainly not going to make the difference between letter grades for a student. Tests are usually weighted much more heavily, and tests are also usually graded in a much more standardized way -- in the courses with which I'm familiar, graders (sometimes TAs, sometimes others) are assigned a single problem or part of a problem and grade that single problem for the entire class.</p>
<p>If there are major issues with grading, head TAs are usually the people who deal with those concerns.</p>
<p>
[quote]
There does not appear to be much concern for the QUALITY of undergrad. teaching. There is too much pride in the various Nobel Laureates teaching -- but few will divulge that many of these academic rock stars have relatively little contact with undergrads.
[/quote]
I had quite a bit of contact with the academic rock stars in my department when I was an undergrad. I even worked in the lab of one for three years.</p>
<p>
[quote]
A chemistry professor refuses to provide reading assignments or practice questions. However, a different professor, teaching the same coure in the Fall semester, did both. So, if you're unlucky and are taking this semester's chemistry course, you have a harder time earning a respectable grade. It's pretty obvious that this current professor is simply reading from old notes, cannot be bothered to give students the equivalent reading passages in the text, and is uninterested in helping them prepare for the tests.
[/quote]
I'm curious as to why the readings and practice problems from the fall semester were inadequate. If a course teaches the same material every term, why wouldn't a student avail him- or herself of published material from prior terms?</p>
<p>I don't think MIT is perfect. But it is an environment where students are expected to do independent work, and where students are expected to be able to tackle material without having it spoon-fed to them. Personally, I think that's a great thing -- when you get to the working world, or to graduate school, trust me, nobody's going to even get close to a spoon to feed you anything. That spoon will not even leave the drawer unless your hand is on it.</p>
<p>S is still debating--MIT vs. Stanford. So lizbee, did your D consider Stanford? He only has 2 more days to decide... what should he do? He's in agony.</p>
<p>That's true, MIT is more sink and swim than a small LAC would be. I think the resources are always there, though. I am having a less-than-ecstatic time in 8.06 because there is only one professor teaching all recitation sections, and since his teaching style doesn't really jive w/ my learning style, I've kinda stopped going to sections. Finals are coming up, I'll have to be pretty creative in order to do well in this class. But I'm not in the least scared, I don't doubt I can find the guidance, by whatever means, I need to succeed here. MIT's taught me that much. It depends on your personality. I personally wouldn't have nearly so much respect for myself if someone had held my hand for three years. Without the moments where you really feel like the bottom's dropped out and you're completely terrified as to how the hell you'll understand this material or get all these things done, you'll never really have the highs of feeling like you've accomplished something beautiful on your own. Some people don't handle this well, those people shouldn't come here.</p>
<p>But yeah, all that aside, some of the points you raised, lizbee, are legit, while others are misinformed. I hesitate in responding to this, since Mollie already has, and covered some of your misguided concerns well. I see your point #2. In the intro classes, oftentimes the students will be smarter than the TA's. I think that has more significance as a testament to the student body than the quality of TA's. Since, those are drawn from colleges all over. And I have no reason to believe that grad students are MIT are dumber than grad students elsewhere.</p>
<p>Sorry if my comment about the chemistry professor was unclear. I guess it's the issue that, at present, I find the most irritating. To try to elucidate...
Apparently the Chemistry Prof. (I think it's 5.111 - Klibanov) this semester is resisting students' requests for reading assignments and practice problems. Indeed, perhaps "dismissive," would be the more accurate word to describe his attitude. Students are irritated that, during the Fall semester, a different professor taught the same course, and was more willing to anticipate student needs.
I am a teacher, and do not encourage "hand holding" or "spoon feeding." I certainly do not think that providing reading assignments is "spoon-feeding!" In my many years of graduate school, I did not come across a professor who did not, at the very least, suggest readings to accompany his/her lectures. It's a simple task for any teacher/professor to do -- at the very least it may be considered a courtesy. To me, if a prof. does not do this, it's more reflective of a lack of care -- he just can't be bothered -- rather than a determined, well-thought-out pedagogical philosophy.
I realize that MIT enjoys the "suck-it-up-be-resourceful" attitude, but time is precious, students want to do well, they appreciate equity, and I don't understand why such seemingly small requests are dismissed.
I'm happy for Mollie that she had such positive experiences. Perhaps, as time progresses, my child might have better luck with professors. But, to date, child has been taught by big names -- but they enter the lecture hall, give their party-pieces, and make a hasty retreat -- leaving the students to fend for themselves and/or seek out t.a.'s of varying levels of competence.
For $50,000 a year I just think there should be a little more care -- again, not hand-holding, just more of an effort to be reasonable.</p>
<p>
[quote]
S is still debating--MIT vs. Stanford. So lizbee, did your D consider Stanford? He only has 2 more days to decide... what should he do?
[/quote]
The issues brought up by lizbee would not be different between MIT and Stanford.</p>
<p>One of my friends decided between MIT and Swarthmore as an undergrad by signing both SIRs, putting them both in the mailbox, and seeing which one she desperately wanted to rip out of the mailbox. :) That's the sort of method I'd advocate in the case when a student is stuck between two truly equally excellent alternatives.</p>
<p>EDIT: And I don't mean to be snotty, lizbee. Things do tend to get better after freshman year, when students are taking smaller courses in their departments and starting UROPs in close contact with faculty members. I just think that, all things considered, a professor not assigning readings is not the biggest academic problem in the world, particularly since readings from last semester are available somewhere. This particular case is well-known at MIT, though: 5.111 in the spring is universally panned, and you'll note that in the MIT 2012 forum (and also in previous freshmen fora), those of us who are current or former MIT students have advised people to take 5.111 in the fall rather than in the spring -- it's notoriously worse in the spring. This is one of the only courses that I can think of that's like that.</p>
<p>
Anecdotal reply: From my son's HS class of 120, 13 students were admitted to MIT (and 12 of them were cross-admits to Stanford). Of those 12, 6 chose to attend MIT, 3 chose Stanford, 1 chose Harvard, 1 chose Princeton, and I forget where the other one went. One of those at Stanford is miserable and mentions regularly how he wishes he'd chosen MIT. (He tried to transfer, and visits often. My guess is that he will graduate from Stanford and go to MIT for grad school.) The other two at Stanford seem to be fine with their choice. I don't know of any of the 6 at MIT who regret their decision between the two schools.</p>
<p>PumpkinPi, roughly where in the country are you located? Would one or the other school be more familiar in location? (And do you consider that a good thing or a non-adventurous thing?) What is there about each environment, culture, and student population that might recommend -- or recommend against -- one or the other? I like to recommend the pretending activity, where you wake up and tell yourself you are no longer allowed to attend one, you must instead go to the other. And see how that feels for a few hours. Then swap your mindset and pretend it was all a joke, that your admission to the second school was rescinded. Turn the tables and observe whether you feel relieved to be assigned to the first school or disappointed. Sometimes there is enough truth in the reactions that it can help with the decision.</p>
<p>Either school is going to be great, it's not as if there's a wrong answer. Here's hoping the decision gets made soon!</p>
<p>@Pumpkinpi--
Stanford is a great school. In fact, I'm teaching there right now. But I have to agree with Mollie. The issues related to teaching are probably similar at both institutions. </p>
<p>Let your son decide based on where he'd like to live for four years.</p>
<p>@Lizbee--
I'm sorry to hear about the bad experiences. For those reading the board, including prospective students, I'd like to say that my daughter's experience this year as a freshman has been quite different. She was lucky to have Denis Auroux this fall, a calculus teacher so beloved that his class gave him a standing ovation at the end of the semester. She's visited all of her science professors during office hours, and although they may give the large lectures, she's found them extremely personable and helpful. In fact, her fall physics professor helped her find a physics UROP this summer.</p>
<p>@Lizbee - I am currently in 5.111, and I think many students got used to the first professor (the class has two professors, one for earlier material and one for later, much like 7.012 in the fall). The first professor guided us very much - the second one is very hands-off. He pushes us hard.</p>
<p>Practice problems? There are about 20 problems on the pset every week, and he's stated that the test will be similar problems, so you're practicing by doing an almost ridiculous amount of homework. Readings? It's not that hard to look up - I know that chapters 10 and 11 cover the acid/base stuff we're doing now. And while many professors have specific office hours for a couple of hours a week, he welcomes students into his office any time. I personally don't have a problem with him. I'll agree with the other students and say that 5.111 is probably better in the fall - but that's because of the students, not the prof. Many students in 5.111 spring are students that failed it in the fall, and this just makes for a worse class.</p>
<p>After freshman year, I've never had a problem approaching any of my professors. They ALL have office hours that anyone can just show up at. I've had some very positive experiences with some awesome professors who have given me some great personal attention when I knew to seek it out. Yeah, freshman year it's a little tougher to do that. But can you really expect a professor to make himself available to all 500+ students in his lecture? That just can't be done.</p>
<p>Also, I'd just like to throw in what is basically my personal life motto: "There is more to life than your GPA." Geez I must sound like a broken record to you guys. =)</p>