IIT vs. MIT

College Search & Selection
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<p>“While higher education in India is top heavy, it cannot be compared to MIT or any other top American school. With the possible exception of top students in Japan, the UK, Germany, and Singapore, top students usually leave their country for the top American schools.”</p>

<p>I don’t usually agree with IvyPBear, but he is correct here. Even the wealthiest families in industrialized nations will not send their kids to the US. By indistrualized, I mean the wealthier countries of Europe (such as Austria, Belgium, France, Germany, Holland, Switzerland and the Nordics), Australia, Canada and Japan. </p>

<p>However, the elite in coutries like India and China will do anything to send their kids to the top American and British schools. A university in those countries will not hold the same appeal to students with the means to study elsewhere as would the top universities in the US.</p>

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<p>Funny though I have met a significant number of wealthy European kids in US universities. From all the countries you mentioned except Austria. I always wondered why bother anyways, is a US degree that useful in Europe? Most Europeans I know are ignorant about US universities? Obviously there would be exception (In honesty, the large majority of rich people are not smart enough to get into top schools based on pure merit)</p>

<p>However, I think IvyPbear was talking of the top students in the country as opposed to the wealthiest students, and even a lot of top students from these countries do head on to undergraduate programs however most go to the US at the graduate level.</p>

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<p>sefago, India and China combined have 150,000 students in the US. France, Germany and the UK combined have 24,000 students in the US. In the case of Europeans, graduate students wil outnumber undergrads 3:1.</p>

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<p>buzzer : IIT may be brilliant, but if you actually talk to the tons of kids stacked up in coaching centres during their high school time (and barely attend schools), you’d understand that most of them are forced ones, by their parents to study the lucrative subject i.e. engineering - ask any of an IIT aspirant if he’d like to take research in his further studies, you’ll get the reply “Nah, it doesn’t give high paying job-packages” - which they’d hardly actually “know” about (ever heard of cram schools, from where myriads of students get admitted into the IITs every year).
Other ones would talk of it as lucrative jobs, and I’m proud to say that that IIT aspirants (= students) are ludicrously immature. A 12th class IIT aspirant (especially the ones won’t even step out of their houses/rooms for the whole year) won’t even know who is Arundhati Roy.</p>

<p>I’m in 10th grade currently, and the hype and coercion regarding coaching centers make IIT seem to me like joining an army, I’m obviously contemplating a US undergraduate college for my further studies after high school, I don’t want to be a part of an army lol.</p>

<p>From what I’ve studied about US unis (and the research prowess there is a testimony) it seems that more of students are there to fulfill their passions rather than 'cos of parental pressure or for lucrative jobs. </p>

<p>So, in conclusion,</p>

<ul>
<li>IIT is overrated.</li>
<li>MIT and other Ivy league institutes (including CalTech) >>>>> IIT.</li>
</ul>

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<p>Asian parents in the US aren’t so much different than in India. There is a reason for the stereotype of Indian kids becoming doctors or whatever. While not always true, obviously, there is a reason for that prevalence. A lot of kids go to IIT and then continue their higher education in the US (for a masters, PHD, etc.).</p>

<p>I have met my fair share of IIT graduates as well. I can tell you that they aren’t all “forced” or all not wanting to do research, etc. Are there probably some? Sure. But IIT is no joke institute. And it certainly has produced some stellar stars. That being said, coming from a 10th grader, that’s pretty anecdotal.</p>

<p>I think it’s just a preference thing. And certainly IIT won’t hold you back in future aspirations or whatever.</p>

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<p>I am an indian and have friends who have graduated from IIT. IIT is the best college for indians, but if you see globally, it stands nowhere near MIT as the students who get into IIT just have to clear few tests and the level of research is much lower as compared to MIT, or most of the US schools.
An Indian should apply to MIT, but a US student should never apply to IIT.</p>

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<p>Seeing that this thread has had some recent posts. I wanted to post this link of a insightful video which addresses several of the above mentioned points. The title is a misleading but its a must watch anyway.</p>

<p>[YouTube</a> - IIT - Indian Institute of Technology - World’s Best Educational Institutes & Pride Of India](<a href=“IIT - Indian Institute of Technology - World's Best Educational Institutes & Pride Of India - YouTube”>IIT - Indian Institute of Technology - World's Best Educational Institutes & Pride Of India - YouTube)</p>

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<p>“No offense, but just because you haven’t heard of a school doesn’t mean that it doesn’t attract the world’s best. I think IIT is brilliant and the students have a culture of studying. But most of these individuals end up coming to the States afterwards. And they are also pretty successful!” </p>

<p>The reason why IIT DOES NOT attract the world’s best IS because no one knows about it. The only hype for IIT is in India, and to a degree in the US because of some very bright Indians making it big (but even then, no Irish-American or Chinese-American will ever consider studying at IIT, and even Indian-Americans would be reluctant to go to IIT if they are accepted into MIT). But other than that, you will NEVER have the top students globally apply to IIT UNLESS they are Indian. You will obtain the BEST in India, and out of the best in India, some of them WILL be smart enough to be among the best in the world (making a name for themselves and making their alma mater proud), but the only reason why these brilliant Indians even apply to IIT is because they LIVE in India. If they had the exact same IQ but was born in the UK, they would apply to Oxford and IIT won’t even be on the radar. If they were born in the US, they would apply to MIT and probably not IIT (once again, wouldn’t even think about it). If they were born in India, they would apply to MIT, Oxford AND IIT (because it’s the best in India, so why not). But in reality, no one other than Indians would go to IIT.</p>

<p>IIT is a good school, don’t get me wrong, but it fails to be one of the greats. It is good because it attracts India’s best, of which some will be the world’s best, but IIT is not one of the greats, because it’s not one of the type of school to attract the best in the world (meaning actually stealing students from Vietnam, S. Africa, Brazil, USA etc…). People outside of India will easily choose MIT over IIT. This does not mean IITians are not smart, many are brilliant. The problem people here have is not with graduates of IIT, because in terms of pure smarts, they have the brain power. But these are people who would easily succeed anywhere. IIT did not make them, they are the type to make themselves. So forget about that and focus on research quality, facilities, funding, etc… and who wins? MIT easily. MIT attracts the best of the US, and the best of other countries like Taiwan would also go there. IIT attract the best of India, but the best of Taiwan will never go there. How can you say IIT attract the best of the world then? In truth, IIT only attract the best of India, of whom some number will be impressive enough to be among the best in the world, that is all you can actually say about IIT.</p>

<p>I’m not getting down on IIT, because it is a really good school, but comparing it to MIT and saying it’s better because of acceptance rate is hard to swallow. The students that go there are super smart, brilliant, and have a bright future ahead of them. But IIT did not make them, the test weeded people out and left only the brilliant. These people enter brilliant. You can say the same about MIT. MIT weeds people out so the only ones left are the brilliant ones. What then makes a good university? I would have to say that, the school that gives brilliant students the best toys, the best equipment to play with and let the creative juices running is the best, and MIT is more likely to have the funding for that.</p>

<p>To summarize:

  1. IIT is famous in India… True
  2. IIT attract the best in India… True
  3. IIT students are really smart… True
  4. IIT attract the best in the WORLD… False
  5. IIT research facilities are among the best in the world… False
  6. IIT has among the best funding in the world… False</p>
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<p>IIT has a downside. And that is that you have to study three subjects - Physics, Maths and Chemistry - ardently for atleast two years, abandoning every possible EC, making a total nerd out of you. It is so hyped that if you aren’t selected, life’s considered over for you. (for the most stereotypical families at least). </p>

<p>In US, if you don’t succeed in MIT, there are other equivalent options waiting for you - Caltech, Princeton, Chicago, Harvard, Standford, UCB, UCSC and many more. Plus you don’t have to study rigorously abandoning your ECs and schools (Most of IITians are practical life fail, guess why?), abstaining from imparting maturity (I believe most of the IIT ‘aspirants’ won’t have the general knowledge to comment on the 2G scam, or at least to know about it) in themselves.</p>

<p>Also, you have to study Chemistry for preparing for IIT-JEE even if you want to be an astrophysicist, or Science even if you want to be a computer engineer which is downright ridiculous.</p>

<p>Ask an average IIT aspirant on why he wants to join IIT. The reply (most of the times) would be ‘to get a job in US’ or ‘I don’t know, people say it’s good’ or ‘IIT tests your IQ’ (facepalms). Few will say they have a passion for Science.</p>

<p>Plus we’ve those cram schools, from which thousands of naive idiots make it to IIT every year, pushing away any ‘smart’ students.
[India’s</a> Cram-School Confidential: Two Years, One Test, 40,000 Students - WSJ.com](<a href=“India's Cram-School Confidential: Two Years, One Test, 40,000 Students - WSJ”>India's Cram-School Confidential: Two Years, One Test, 40,000 Students - WSJ)</p>

<p>Plus the motto of these schools (it’s nearly impossible to qualify without studying in a cram school or otherwise studying for 10 hours a day, abandoning your school at all) is to NEVER GO BEYOND THE SYLLABUS OF IIT-JEE. If one has a passion for Science, his passion is literally killed off (unless the person is kind of mature.)</p>

<p>IIT, along with it’s whole-India famous exam - the JEE, has a major flaw. But Indians FAIL to acknowledge this flaw. Because it helps creates job - in the US that is.</p>

<p>Note : I’ve either experienced most of the aforementioned things in RL (I had been going to a coaching center this year, in 10th grade) or read or heard them from other ‘sensible’ people or realised them, observing the people in my surroundings. </p>

<p>If anyone has a debate against it, bring it on.</p>

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<p>IIT is for those who can mug like parrots and work hard for 18 hours a day. MIT is for those who have been academically and extracirricularly strong and those who want to strive by innovating something. Its for those who really wish to make an Impact to their environment. Wheras IIT is for those who just want the prestige(which by the way is mostly limited to India)</p>

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<p>[MINES</a> ParisTech - INTERNATIONAL PROFESSIONAL RANKING OF HIGHER EDUCATION INSTITUTIONS](<a href=“http://www.mines-paristech.fr/Actualites/PR/Ranking2011EN-Fortune2010.html#7]MINES”>http://www.mines-paristech.fr/Actualites/PR/Ranking2011EN-Fortune2010.html#7)</p>

<p>For the Fortune Global 500, the Indian school with the most Fortune Global 500 CEO’s is an IIM at 63 (tied with many others). The first IIT to show up is IIT-Delhi at 92, tied with many other schools, of which 3 happen to be non-IIT Indian universities/colleges. The next IIT to show up is IIT-Kharagpur at 229.</p>

<p>There are a lot of Indians saying that going to an IIT will put you into the Global elite, but the list seems to suggest that India only does moderately well. It definitely doesn’t have the overwhelming dominance globally that Vinod Khosla suggests it does. If you look at the rankings, Japanese, and even Chinese schools do better than most IITs, seeing that there are 8 Chinese universities that are ranked higher than IIT-Delhi, the first IIT to show up at all. </p>

<p>The one thing that I wonder is, what is the average income of an IITian as a graduate, 10 years out, and 30 years out? What proportion of India’s largest companies are run by IITians? Do these numbers suggest something different than what Fortune Global 500 CEO numbers would suggest?</p>

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<p>Yes. And by that list, Southern Methodist University is better than Princeton!</p>

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<p>Yes, it does do better than Princeton, at least in terms of how many Fortune Global 500 they produce. Princeton never really claimed to put you into the entrepeneurial or business elite anyway, the only guarantee is that it lands you in the intellectual elite. Anyway, back to IIT, what I see as a problem when it comes to IIT is that there have been MANY claims by alumni that graduating from IIT puts you into the global elite, and that there are many distinguished CEO’s of multinational companies. Is this true? Vinod Khosla says it is and points to himself as an example, but how many others can he point at once he moves his finger away from pointing only at himself? That ranking, which does not measure quality but instead only how many alumni from your school hold CEO positions at a Fortune Global 500 company (so don’t get so defensive Mr. Princeton, your school is still pretty good, just for some reason not enough are taking the corporate track), shows that IIT is actually only a decent school when it comes to landing kids into top executive positions in the long run (at least when it comes to as CEO of a Fortune Global 500, maybe they do better when you look at executives generally as a whole), not a global elite school that is akin to Harvard, Princeton, Yale, MIT combined etc…</p>

<p>Of course, being an Indian school, maybe it isn’t fair to compare it so directly to MIT. Maybe they mean, IIT does damn well if you take into account India’s poverty, a country so poor should not even be on the list (etc etc)… But then how would you explain having at least 8 CHINESE schools beating out the highest ranked IIT? Of course China’s getting a lot of global attention nowadays, but China and India are part of the BRIC countries people often lump together as tmr’s growth engines. So is IIT really punching WAY above its weight globally? Or only in relation to other Indian schools? If i had to make a bet, I would say only in relation to other Indian schools, cause I don’t see what the hype is all about.</p>

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<p>There’s more to getting into MIT than facility with hard sciences. I’d say intelligence, though hard to define, has a few important components</p>

<p>1) knowledge – the least important; often involves memorization. IIT students will probably win here, because they’re required to have a huge knowledge base of the hard sciences/math before entering.</p>

<p>2) understanding – important. IIT might win here, in that they have an understanding of more material, and are required to know it on more than a superficial level. I’d say IIT and MIT students are equal in their skills of being able to understand.</p>

<p>3) creativity – the most important, and often overlooked. I don’t mean artsy or whatever assumptions about creativity you might have. I mean the ability to see disparate connections between ideas and concepts, to understand relationships among different topics of knowledge. This is where MIT has a huge edge over IIT, because this ability cannot be captured in an exam. I think it’s something MIT looks hard for in applications. Creativity is what drives innovation, imparts deeper understanding, and advances human knowledge past its current boundaries. It’s like knowledge about knowledge–a “meta-understanding.”</p>

<p>This probably explains why MIT is much better-known worldwide than IIT. It attracts people that excel in #3, and their contributions ultimately have a huge impact on the world.</p>

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<p>^ Well-put.</p>

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<p>Not to take anything away from IITians…but I have sat and qualified for JEE,met a ton of other IIT aspirants like me and most of them are mugpots…they go to a coaching center and mug for 4 years…but there were exceptions though…thats why research in IITs and in India as a whole is almost non existent compared to America…here people enjoy their studies,and do what they like…</p>

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<p>@EminemFan
"Other ones would talk of it as lucrative jobs, and I’m proud to say that that IIT aspirants (= students) are ludicrously immature. A 12th class IIT aspirant (especially the ones won’t even step out of their houses/rooms for the whole year) won’t even know who is Arundhati Roy.</p>

<p>I’m in 10th grade currently, and the hype and coercion regarding coaching centers make IIT seem to me like joining an army, I’m obviously contemplating a US undergraduate college for my further studies after high school, I don’t want to be a part of an army lol."</p>

<p>As a 12th grade student in India, I do not agree with you at all. Maybe you are surrounded by ignorant students, but I do not find this the case at all. I joined the two year IIT coaching class last year, and after a year of getting grilled by weekly 3 hours tests, i decided engineering wasn’t the way to go, and decided to focus on Biology. Now i’m almost certainly going to the US for my undergrad, just waiting on the decisions. But every single student in my class, even the class toppers who study for ten hours a day, have a very good idea about what is going on in the world around them. We’ve engaged in stimulating discussions that don’t only revolve around differential equations or Irodov’s books. To say that the normal 12th grade IIT aspirant is not aware of current affairs is completely wrong.</p>

<p>That said, i do agree that the emphasis on IIT is over-hyped. While on paper IIT students may be brighter than MIT students, the latter are definitely more well rounded.</p>

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<p>@apply2school
“As a 12th grade student in India, I do not agree with you at all. Maybe you are surrounded by ignorant students, but I do not find this the case at all. I joined the two year IIT coaching class last year, and after a year of getting grilled by weekly 3 hours tests, i decided engineering wasn’t the way to go, and decided to focus on Biology. Now i’m almost certainly going to the US for my undergrad, just waiting on the decisions. But every single student in my class, even the class toppers who study for ten hours a day, have a very good idea about what is going on in the world around them. We’ve engaged in stimulating discussions that don’t only revolve around differential equations or Irodov’s books. To say that the normal 12th grade IIT aspirant is not aware of current affairs is completely wrong.”</p>

<p>That attitude differs from school to school I think. Some schools really polish their students’ skills, while most others are just money-raking businesses.
In my school, students (except leaving a few) are big idiots, they are either mugging up everytime or craving for girlfriends/boyfriends to boast themselves. And yeah, a girl doesn’t even know who’s our Prime Minister and President.</p>

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<p>Techfreak, with due respect your discussion is correct but seems not to ask the obvious question - why are things that way?</p>

<p>I would say most Indians who have parents with such background suggest that they may have avoided their number one choice path since the career opportunities were lacking. Plenty would likely otherwise be happy to get involved in creative research.</p>

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<p>True, parental mentality is an important factor in the things being that way. Plus the fact that most people force it into their kids’ minds that getting a lucrative job is more important than enjoying your work. In India, people value family reputation more than individual relish.</p>