<p>yojoe792:</p>
<p>Business is all about connections. If you have trouble with getting ahead through connections, you’re in for a lot of grief in the business world.</p>
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<p>That’s what I was thinking. Unless your connection is the Dean of Admissions, or the Dean of Admissions owes him a lot of money or a big favor for some reason, I think his ability to actually deliver the acceptance just on his say so is being overstated.</p>
<p>Don’t bet on your chances. Penn is notorious for denying admission to children and grandchildren of major financial benefactors.</p>
<p>Honestly, if Penn is your first choice use your connections. A lot of people lie to their friends and say they are not connected to Ivies when in fact they are; actually, probably a good 40% of the people you know attending an Ivy have SOME kind of connection (legacy, family member who works there, friend of a friend etc). So use your connection; if Penn is your top choice, apply ED. if not, apply regular and decide where to go once you find out where you’re accepted.</p>
<p>I have been called a “rule-stickler” on another forum, and yet I have no problem with your asking your contact for a recommendation. (You’re asking for him to write a recommendation, not for him to alter your stats in the admission office’s computer, right?)</p>
<p>If he truly has the power to single-handedly admit someone he thinks is unqualified, his job is at risk. If not, he is just a big talker. </p>
<p>Apply ED if you would have done so anyway; it is an advantage to do so. I don’t think you need to handicap yourself just because you know him.</p>
<p>I am proud of you for asking the question.</p>
<p>… Which raises an interesting point. What’s the definition of unethical? yojoe asks Big Shot Friend to write a letter of recommendation? yojoe asks BSF to put in a good word with the adcom?<br>
Short of bribery or falsifying information, what could the <em>student</em> do that is unethical? All the student can do is provide information and a desire to attend Penn.
BSF is the one with the ‘power’ (if any) to make it happen.</p>
<p>those numbers look good enuf to me to get into wharton / penn. but what do I know, I dont know how to spell enuf. seriously, you have more than adequate numbers and background. it just so happens that you have a warm connection. Remember, my ivy in the making, with a good conscience (thank you, and keep your sensitivity up thruout your life; us humans need more people like you), CORRELATION IS NOT CAUSATION.</p>
<p>“Short of bribery or falsifying information, what could the <em>student</em> do that is unethical? All the student can do is provide information and a desire to attend Penn.
BSF is the one with the ‘power’ (if any) to make it happen.”</p>
<p>I am not sure what the ‘right’ answer is here, but I think the OP is to be commended for not taking a legalistic view of the issue. I find it both refreshing and heartening. I hope he/she gets into Wharton.</p>
<p>My choice:
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<p>First, your connection will ONLY be helpful in the ED round of decisions. UPenn does not consider connections and legacy those in the RD round. (Hint: if you are deferred in the ED round, you are not likely to be accepted in the RD cycle; it was a courtesy rejection.) </p>
<p>Also, UPenn does not accept 100% of their legacies. Not sure the percentage.</p>
<p>Then, your connection may not be as ‘strong’ as you suspect. May as well use it if this is really your top choice school, without a doubt. You’d apply anyway, right?</p>
<p>Besides, there are many, many people who use connections to get into colleges (especially the ivies). Look at Emma-what’s-her-name who got into Brown. Was she an especially strong student, or did she use her connections?</p>
<p>Finally, it really comes down to…fit. Are you still a strong student? Do they think you can handle the work? That’s up to you. Keep up your work, your stats (SAT IIs, APs, etc.), your gpa, your clubs and leadership. Show you’re a terrific candidate and they’ll be happy to send you an acceptance.</p>
<p>Personally, I think this is disgusting.
But hey, nobody here can stop you from doing what you want. And it’s probably good practice for later life.</p>
<p>Well it depends on the quality of your school. If your school is very good and competitive then you getting in will not affect your friend getting in. However, if your school is very small and not known for getting students into Ivy League, then your recommendation won’t make much of a difference anyway.</p>
<p>The idea that an acceptance could be “illegitimate” is silly. Elite schools are not and never have been meritocracies. If you do in fact have an in at the school, you are simply using the standard admissions system to your advantage.</p>
<p>As previous posters have said, this guy isn’t likely to be able to get you in single-handedly. Presumably he’s somebody whom the admissions comm trusts, and so they will value his testimony as to your ability and good character. In that case, what’s likely is that his recommendation will give you a boost, maybe similar to the boost legacy applicants get–but perhaps more merit-based, since it’s apparently your personal qualities, not your bloodline, that led the guy to make the offer in the first place. So take him up on his offer, but realize that “connected” applicants aren’t admitted to very selective institutions unless they’re already in the ballpark–so have a backup plan in case this one fails.</p>
<p>You might not be brilliant but you are good. Some people do get accepted with stats like yours, so whats the big deal or unethical about that you might be one of them(I heard Bush got into Yale through conections, and what did he become?The President). If you had something like 1800 or below in SAT and were a complete idiot then it can be said that it might have been unethical. And you might actualy do very well there because you would want to prove that you are good enough as those who had much higher scores than you. As far as you taking a friends place, there is no guarantee he will get in so dont worry. Never think about the ifs and buts it will just hold you back because they are not certain to happen.</p>
<p>Read Malcolm Gladwell’s “Outliers.” It puts using connections in context. And offers a lot of provocative ideas about the ingredients of “success.”</p>
<p>If you are sure you could go to Penn just go. It doesn’t matter how you got in and no one will care as long as you work hard and do well there. It’s not like you’re tellng future employers that you only got into Penn because of a connection.</p>
<p>However I do find it hard to believe that you have a connection that could certainly get you in.</p>
<p>Thanks guys, I REALLY appreciate the comments. All this has been on the forefront of my mind in the last recent weeks. I read them all.</p>
<p>Alot of you are questioning my connection. Let me provide an analogy.</p>
<p>Let’s say I’m applying to a private gym (just think hypothetically) for body builders. My connection is equivalent to getting a letter of rec from Arnold Schwarzenegger.</p>
<p>^^Well, continuing with your analogy, how well does Arnold actually know you? Have you worked out and lifted weights a lot with Arnold so that he can judge your talent, or is he merely friends with your dad? Does Arnold own the gym or is otherwise directly connected with it, or is he merely prominent in the field? Still lots of ifs and maybes…</p>
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<p>This did not put the situation in perspective any better.</p>
<p>“^^Well, continuing with your analogy, how well does actually Arnold know you? Have you worked out and lifted weights a lot with Arnold so that he can judge your talent, or is he merely friends with your dad? Does Arnold own the gym or is otherwise directly connected with it, or is he merely prominent in the field? Still lots of ifs and maybes…”</p>
<p>I’ve worked out with Arnold several times and we get along well.</p>
<p>And guys, the concern of this thread shouldn’t be whether I CAN get in, that’s totally out of my hands.</p>
<p>I’m trying to understand what I should do SHOULD I get in. </p>
<p>The rest is kind of irrelevant.</p>