I'm afraid we will choose the wrong school...CCM or Lawrence

<p>Vocal Performance (Undergrad)</p>

<p>She's a smart kid. 3.8 gpa and 30 on act
Not planning on a dual degree
Plans on taking her voice to Musical Theatre although her voice teacher says she's crazy
CCM took her off wait list on last day but has been generous with money
Lawrence has been generous
Both have the same affordablity for us
Both about the same distance(driving) from home
Committed to Lawrence - would lose our deposit
D was leaning Lawrence because of the integration of the conservatory with the school but has since become neutral
I have a preference but I won't be going to the school.
Voice teacher is pro-CCM which says alot since she worked at Lawrence for 20 years! But she doesn't want to push D either.</p>

<p>Does either school have an edge education wise since she does not plan on going to grad school at this time?
I guess I just want to make sure her brain will be challenged. And her voice.</p>

1 Like

<p>Has she had trial lessons at either or both schools? Has she had contact with specific teachers? Do they seem to be personally invested in recruiting her? CCM is more graduate student oriented, especially in vocal performance. Conservatory faculty tend to be more interested in more mature voices. Lawrence is better known for undergraduates. What kind of performance opportunities are important to her? She will not sing leads as an undergraduate at CCM, unless she is unique as a voice type and a talent. Has she considered the environment around the schools, one in a city, the other in a town? Or the weather, one southern Ohio, and the other Wisconsin…quite a bit of difference there. Does she know students at either school? CCM is a good credential, if she can get out of it what she wants in terms of her teacher and performance opportunities. You can compare the core curriculum for both BM degrees, see what the academic requirements are out outside of music. Does she have other interests to which she might turn if she changes her mind about being a music major? Which school is stronger in those areas? Good luck! Nice choices to have!</p>

1 Like

<p>Thanks lorele!2702!</p>

1 Like

<p>Great advice from Lorelei about comparing the core gen ed classes for both schools. That you can do any time on line.
CCM has a big Masters, DMA and post doc program- they get the roles, and since there are so many of them, they comprise the bulk of the chorus in the operas also.I don’t think that VP majors at CCM can audition for MT roles- and why would they be allowed to since their MT program has its own rigorous audition process?
She would get more stage time at Lawrence, but if your D is looking for MT, have you considered taking a gap year and working with Mary Anna Dennard (Moo) or a good MT coach? The more time and effort put into classical training can make it more difficult to cross “back” into the MT voice where belting is now the norm. Getting seen in a Showcase is key to getting an agent and working in NYC now and that comes from getting into a top MT program.
Or, considering your ideal location, she could put in a year in VP and still apply and attend Unifieds in Chicago next audition season. Some MT programs do accept transfer students. She might want to contact some of the good MT schools right now and make inquiries.
Wanting to be “Audra McDonald” is fine, but she got her big break TWENTY years ago! Is something like that likely to happen now- probably not, considering the heavy emphasis on the belt voice and the very small proportion of roles that are for a completely legit voice. “Encores!” is great, but one can’t make a living counting on a suitable role showing up there. Audra is now 44 and Kelli O’Hara is 38… things have changed. Frederica von Stade walked into Mannes wanting to learn to read music and was on the stage of the Met 5 years later. Again, that would be a complete impossibility today, as you know, having just been through the application/audition process with your daughter.
For VP now, grad school is a must but not for MT, which is all about the look and talent in that particular moment. Having a dream is terrific but that has to be approached in the manner that makes it possible now- or 4-5 years from now- not by looking back two decades. This may be one of those times where it pays to step back a bit and reevaluate or to look towards next winter as another means to an end. Whatever your daughter chooses, she’s lucky to have a mom like you who really wants the best for her!</p>

1 Like

<p>Not a bad idea about a gap year if she wants to do MT. </p>

1 Like

<p>It’s true that as an UG you will not be given a lead in a main stage opera at CCM; the graduate program is phenomenal and they choose big works requiring more mature voices (Don Pasquale & Owen Wingrave were two from this year). I have known of some UG’s who have been selected for opera choruses, but it’s definitely the exception rather than the rule. As an UG you might be able to be in chamber choir at some point, though (the top chorus here), and there are solo opportunities in the other choruses (eg, Chorale is where most UG VP majors sing and the soloists for the works we do come from within the group. A few friends were soloists in the Beethoven Mass in C earlier in the year and there are a lot of soloing opportunities in the modern rep we do, too). There is an UG opera every year. This year was Ravel’s L’enfant et les sortilèges; last year was The Marriage of Figaro. I know that Deborah Voigt just gave a masterclass for undergrads a few weeks ago too. MT is a whole other department/situation at CCM. There isn’t much interaction and VP and MT have totally different tracks so far as coursework, etc go.</p>

1 Like

<p>Seems like at either school the MT and the VP tracks are very different. (Am I correct?) Is there a reason why she didn’t audition for MT programs instead? Of course, too late now without a gap year. However, you might want to look at which school she could be doing more MT work or there is more overlap if that is what she is most interested in. Doesn’t sound like it would work so well at CCM.</p>

1 Like

<p>In most schools there is almost zero crossover or opportunity to crossover between VP and Musical Theatre. My d is a coloratura soprano but chose classical training as it you train to belt in musical theatre you cannot go back to classical vp. That said, while she loves traditional musical theatre, the opportunities for that career track these days are extremely limited beyond Kelli O’Hara and Audra McDonald, Rebecca Luker and very rarely do you see Kristin Chenoweth. Actually none of them are in the 20’s and will be aging out of specific roles but the Broadway flavor of the month is more pop performer/belter, not my d.
She studied theatre and vocal performance as undergrad. Lawrence does offer the opportunity for more curriculum flexibility although it was not a school on our radar and did not apply there. She did not want to apply to CCM for the above reasons although maybe it would have been a good choice.
For her although she was just cast as legit soprano vocal performer for an off-Bway performance piece, she primarily auditions for straight theatre and can sing when she is cast in children’s theatre. If she were to pursue VP she would need to go to both grad school and live in Europe where there are more opera companies and more opportunities . That was the advice given when she was semester abroad studying music in Vienna and I do agree that would be the direction she would have to pursue. </p>

1 Like

<p>Interesting. I have been very upfront with both schools about her interests. CCM has even suggested she study with a teacher that teaches healthy belting and works with the musical theatre students… They are really pursuing her at this point. </p>

<p>@Clarimom she auditioned for one musical theatre program (CMU) and was priority wait listed. The idea was that she would only try out for the program she liked best and if that did not work out she would train her voice and have a good foundation. She corrected me in that she wants to have a crossover career where she does both.</p>

<p>It’s funny because there’s a girl who trained classically at U of I and is now on tour in Motown the Musical and former CCM VP students who went straight to musical theatre. And those old musicals requiring legit singing aren’t going anywhere. lol</p>

<p>@musician34 Do you go to CCM or have you attended? Vocal performance?</p>

<p>I guess I want her to get the best training she can get. And each program has it’s bonuses. If she decided that VP was not for her and wanted to do straight MT then having CCM on her resume might be a great thing. But being able to perform more and be top dog at Lawrence might be exciting at first but get very boring if she isn’t challenged. But there is a lot of intermingling at Lawrence. And they do a musical every other year. But the VP program does not impress me at all. And although I do know one of their alumni who is pursuing his doctorate at CCM no one else stands out.</p>

<p>Thanks all! I’m worrying too much. She can always transfer where ever she goes.</p>

<p>Thank you Mezzo! </p>

1 Like

<p>@Dradsmom‌, I’m a current CCM junior in composition (not VP). However, I do have friends who are vocalists & am happy to answer any questions about CCM in general. Good luck with your decision-making! Feel free to PM me.</p>

1 Like