I'm concerned

College Majors Musical Theater Major
1

<p>Hi,</p>

<p>I'm currently a high school sophomore...between my "I'm never going to get into college!" freakouts, I've been having "I'm never going to be able to pay for college!" freakouts. </p>

<p>Most of the concern to me comes from seeing that so many of the really good schools with great musical theatre programs are so expensive. </p>

<p>I'm collecting information on scholarships, of course, but...now I'm going to ask you guys. How on earth were you able to afford the prices of some of these schools? Any suggestions for arts scholarships I can add to my list?</p>

2

<p>Well I guess I'll start out by saying the obvious. Loans, loans and more loans! Most of us who are at one of the big MT schools have loans coming out of our ears. It is an expensive venture, but for the kind of training that you will get at a top school, it is entirely worth it.</p>

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<p>Some schools do offer talent scholarships and grants, but you would have to check with each school individually about that. You may also want to look at state schools (even where you would be an out of state student), because those are often less expensive than private colleges. Penn State is an example of a BFA Musical Theatre Program that is at a state school. University of Michigan, Florida State, and I think Oklahoma City University are a few others. There are many more as well. Go over the Big List that Dr. John maintains. Check out programs at the state schools on the list.</p>

<p>You may also qualify for scholarships that you do not know about... check with you Guidance Counselor. There are some scholarships that are for people in specific groups... for example, your grandfather was in the Knights of the Columbus, your mother is a Daughter of the American Revolution, your father is in the Screen Actor's Guild, or your mother is in the United Auto Workers Union, you were born in such in such county, or whatever. </p>

<p>You are very smart to start thinking about this now. You have plenty of time to check out many different options for financial aid both loans and grants. Acting is not a high paying proposition (unless, of course, you are Brad Pitt). The less debt with which you graduate from a training program, the better!</p>

<p>Good for you for thinking ahead! :)</p>

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<p>So for us newbies how do we get to Dr. John's Big List. Thanks - CJ</p>

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<p>Just to clarify, Oklahoma City University is a private school affiliated with the United Methodist Church. They do offer generous merit scholarships based on ACT/SAT scores, talent scholarships and also $1000 a year if you are a member of the Methodist Church. Even with all this, both my D and I have plenty of loans.</p>

<p>To get to the Big List, go to the thread entitled 'FAQ Link' or something like that. Click on the FAQ link in the thread, then in the left column click on The Big List.</p>

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<p>Here's the link to the Big List. As Musicmom says, you can also go to the FAQ link near the top of the list of MT threads.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.geocities.com/musicaltheatercolleges/biglist.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.geocities.com/musicaltheatercolleges/biglist.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

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<p>Hi Hollylove,</p>

<p>There is a lot of good advice given here. The read deal is to go to a good state school - in your case Cal State Fullerton. Best of luck!</p>

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<p>Thanks everyone :) I guess part of my problem is that I really want to go out of state, so everything is so much more expensive.</p>

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<p>You are right that out of state is much more expensive, but a state school in a state other then your own will probably still be less expensive than a private university.</p>

<p>As far as state schools go, in CA you should also check out UC- Irvine.</p>

<p>Goos luck!</p>

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<p>Okay, I'll look at UC Irvine, thanks :)</p>

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<p>I almost hate to let this little secret out, but out-of-state tuition for SUNY-Geneseo is $10,615. Even if room and board is $7000, it's still less than our in-state tuition for University of Illinois, our premier state school. It's not a BFA program, though, and is very selective academically to get in.</p>

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<p>It has been a few years since I applied and auditioned for schools however, I will try to lend some advice based on my own experience. I believe I had a 2.6 GPA and am embarrassed to say what I had on my SAT. I was offered a full ride scholarship at numerous schools including out-of-state schools simply based on my audition(s). So just to give you some hope, opportunities do exist for those of us who did not put all of our focus on getting high grades. I did choose a four-year Conservatory program offering a BFA instead of a university or college. My main reasons for this were strictly based on the curriculum. I wanted a program that focused solely on musical theater/theater education and not as much on the liberal arts side. I'm not sure I would do that now that I've seen what I've seen in the real world. Unfortunately a musical theater degree doesn't carry a whole lot of weight when you're applying for jobs. Don't get me wrong, I can sing, dance and act, but explaining this at a job interview certainly becomes a little more difficult if you choose later in life to go a different direction than musical theater. Thankfully, I started my own company and was able to avoidthese types of dilemmas.</p>

<p>The other thing that I will say if you do get a scholarship and this is a huge word of warning from somebody who's already been through it.... when they say you have to go to all of your classes to keep your scholarship (even dance classes), they mean it. Even though I was cast in some of the best roles as a freshman in the main stage shows, after the second semester of my sophomore year my scholarship was up for review because I had skipped so many dance classes. Dance was just not my thing....</p>

<p>So my suggestion would be to find the best audition coach you can find and work on that audition to the point where you stand out from all the rest.</p>

<p>But then again, I was a freshman in 1992 and things have changed I'm sure. Either way best of luck and feel free to ask me any questions.</p>

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<p>StevenJonez--"now that I've seen what I've seen in the real world"--an intriguing comment. What's been your experience, entering the real world with a musical theatre BFA? Did you go the audition route? It sounds like you're now doing something else than performing, though still theater-related?</p>

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<p>TwinDad, </p>

<p>Sorry for the delay in response, I've been a little bit under the weather. </p>

<p>In regards to my comment "now that I've seen what I've seen in the real world" all I can say is a ugh...</p>

<p>I hate responding to these types of questions because I don't want to be the type that discourages someone from pursuing their dreams especially since their reach a point where I stopped pursuing mine.</p>

<p>I think the easiest way to answer this so that you get a perspective of where I'm coming from is for me to take a few steps back and do what all self-centered performers like to do, talk about themselves.</p>

<p>I started acting when I was 10 in community theater. When I turned 13 I was cast in a show that was touring the world. When I got to high school (public school) I had no problems getting cast in a lead roles and won most of the thespian competitions I entered to the state level. My grades suffered because I still touring but when I was a sophomore in auditioned for one of the consortium auditions I received amazing responses and was basically told by some of the schools that all I had to do was take the SAT and that the grades didn't matter because I would be admitted based on talent.</p>

<p>Don't worry I'm not just bragging, I'm actually going somewhere with this, I promise. Because performing was all I had known and seemed to be so easy for me I figured that it would continue this way all throughout high school, college/drama school and then on into my professional career.</p>

<p>I chose to go Conservatory and get a BFA in musical theater because after looking at some of the Universities and the requirements that they had for liberal arts it was pretty clear to me that there was no way I was going to pass foreign languages and required math credits needed to graduate. In my mind this didn't matter because I was going to continue doing what I've done since I was 10, and did not see the need to have a university degree. After two years working towards a BFA at Conservatory I decided to take it even more intensive and moved to New York City and study it true Conservatory where no liberal arts were taught at all only acting (I refer to this as my Lawrence Olivier period). After finishing the two year Conservatory in New York City I had once again justified in my head that I had spent four years in school and was going to just tell people that I have my BFA if they ever asked. </p>

<p>This was in 1996 and because my father had worked for IBM I had grown up on computers. It was a very good time to have grown up on computers because the dot com craze was booming. So instead of having to wait tables while auditioning I was able to find employment in the business world. Perhaps it was growing up and moving on to a new part of my life that I left the theater or the reality that if I didn't jump on this train while it was moving I could see that I would be left behind with no education other than singing, acting and dance. So once again I justified to myself and jump on the train. I never acted again, at least not on stage. Acting did come in handy as I built my own company, pitching investors and venture capital firms. But to be very honest, I lied on my resume because I knew that there was no way I would get funded with the background I had.</p>

<p>Here's where my comment comes into play. As I gained real-world business experience in New York City during the dot com frenzy and even survived as it fell, I still lacked the basic knowledge and understanding and even math that it took to run a business. I was forced to put my faith and trust in accountants and other employees in hopes that they did not screw me over because how would I have ever known. </p>

<p>One of the things that I remember so clearly that I do not think will ever leave my head was told to my class the first day of class when I moved to New York at the Conservatory. Our teacher told us to look around at everybody in the class, and to realize that the majority of us in 10 years would not be in the performing arts. In fact she said that the chances were that only one person out of the entire entering class would survive as an actor. I thought to myself when she said this that I would be the one because of my history growing up performing. While, I will say she was wrong, quite a few of my fellow students have gone on to become quite successful, I was not one of those.</p>

<p>In retrospect here's how I would like to of done it. I would have attended the University and minored in theater or musical theater so that I did not have to list that as my BFA. I know that sounds terrible, but after enough years in business I would give anything to have gone to business school and as harsh as it may sound a theater degree or musical theater degree does not put you at the top of the list when trying to get into business school. Now in my case I did not even have a degree so I had no chance of even trying to get in. My lack of formal liberal arts education definitely created an insecurity when it came to negotiating business deals for fear that I was not following everything that was really going on. </p>

<p>In the last few years I have moved back into the arts. The truth is, you never lose the passion you have for performing, it's just that you find different outlets to express it. To this day I still take pride in pitching investors for half $1 million investments in my company. I still sing in the shower, and it's true your voice gets better and higher with age. I can finally hit all of those notes I used to dream about hitting while in my early 20s. But I do watch many of my friends who have continued on in the theater working Broadway gig to Broadway gig never knowing what jobs next. It's a tough life, and there is lots and lots of a really really good people out there. I was the big fish in a little pond until I got to New York and started auditioning. Even with terrific agents and amazing contacts, you still have to deal with the fact that there are 45-year-old man who are able to play 22-year-olds who have been working a lot longer than any 22-year-old. That is a hard reality to face.</p>

<p>I am very fearful that I might convince any parents to hold their children back based on my comments. As I said, I never got the BFA so I am really not one to talk or give advice. I just know that if I was to do it again, I would have put more focus on a formal education. There are plenty of actors out there who studied English and then got their masters in theater or musical theater. </p>

<p>My apologies for rambling on so, perhaps the Niquil has got the best of me right now.</p>

<p>The biggest problem with all of this rambling is that if I was told this by somebody when I was still 18 or even 22 I would've told them to buzz off and told myself that they were just one of the failures that come out of the industry, so I'm sure that any student that reads this will see it is the same.</p>

<p>Not sure this helps, but at least it's honest.</p>

<p>Best Regards</p>

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<p>StevenJonez- Your story is important for everyone considering the Arts as a profession to know. I aprreciate you posting it. Thank you.</p>

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<p>I sat and looked at it for a good long while trying to decide if it was the right thing to do. I know I will gain enemies here immediately, but I hope it at least gives those who were in my position a reality check and those who are on the fence top not sure if this is for them the ability to consider it as a minor. Theater students are always the most intelligent, outgoing, dedicated, passionate and insightful people I have ever met. This does create inner conflicts that they are sometimes not really prepared for. </p>

<p>When I auditioned at Julliard at age 17, I got a call back which is the most exhilarating feeling in the world. After my audition, they told me to come back in 4 years after I had gained some life experiences. That says a lot about what these programs put you through emotionally. Especially the acting schools, talk about daily psychiatry!!</p>

<p>Again, never give up, because in the end as I have learned, you cannot lose the passion, just know how to use it to your advantage. You never know when you might use your theater skills in the courtroom as a lawyer or your ability to stay calm in stressful situations as parent. And hell, you can always live vicariously through your kids and push them into the Arts!!! hehehe</p>

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<p>Heavy stuff, but definitely a message we all need to hear.</p>

<p>Thank you for sharing Mr. Jonez.</p>

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<p>SteveJonez: I would hope and stronly predict you would never gain enemies on this board based on a post where you shared your experience. Who can argue with experience? Some can play Monday morning quarterback, but we all do that with various aspects of our lives. Instead of looking at it as a potential controversial issue, think about the consequences if you hadn't shared your story - how would you feel if you hadn't written this all down and hit send, and later found out you might have influenced someone's decision in a way that could have prevented them from going through what you went through? Parents and students make their own decisions, based on thorough research, hopefully some humility and careful reflection. </p>

<p>Perhaps I am empathetic with your response because my daughter will most likely pursue a BA or BFA in a program that allows at least a minor if not double major. And hopefully with all her AP credits, she can take more classes in areas that will prepare her for other meaningful work instead of taking introductory and gen ed classes. Thank you for sharing your story.</p>

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<p>StevenJonez,
How could you possibly gain enemies from your post? I believe we all know that our kids are following a dream...right? Do we PLAN for our kids to fail, absolutely not!!! But my thought has always been that it would be sad for my d to not follow a dream that she is so passionate about. She is at a conservatory for BFA in MT, LOVING every minute of it...but she also has backup plans. You speak the truth of what could happen, and I believe these kids, knowing what could happen, have plans for that possible outcome. Thank you...and hope you feel better soon!</p>

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<p>Thank you for such an authentic portrayal of your experience.</p>