I'm depressed and confused...A little help?

Applying to College
1

<p>I'm in a quandary. I really hope someone here can help me out.</p>

<p>I'm from Bangalore, India, and I just finished my 12th grade finals. My scores will be out end-april. I'm writing my SAT I this may. Obviously, I should've finished with the SAT last year, but at the time I was keen on studying here in India. Since then, I've gradually grown disillusioned with the entire system of education here, and I've decided that an american education is the way to go. Unfortunately, I completely grew accustomed to this idea only early this year, thus dashing my chances of going to the U.S. in '08.</p>

<hr>

<p>What of it? I can apply in '09, right?</p>

<p>Well, not really. See, my parents are not too sure about sending me to the U.S. to study. In fact, they're unsure whether I can get into even a single american university with financial aid. So, (as a kind of 'backup'), they want me to enroll for college here (this June), and continue with that till I start getting letters from the american colleges I would've applied to. If I get into even a single american college, I'm free to quit the college here.</p>

<p>This presents a problem. If I do a year of college here, that would make me a transfer student. But, I want to do a full four-year undergraduate course in the U.S, meaning I'd have to apply as a freshman candidate even though would've finished a (worthless, in my opinion) year in college here. </p>

<p>**What colleges would let me do this?<a href="I'm%20asking%20because%20I%20need%20to%20make%20a%20decision%20about%20enrolling%20for%20college%20here%20within%20the%20week,%20and%20therefore%20I%20don't%20have%20the%20time%20to%20email%20each%20college%20and%20ask%20them">/b</a>. Please take into account that I want to major in computer science, possibly with a minor in music theory/composition and/or photography.</p>

<hr>

<p>What if I don't enroll at a college here?</p>

<p>Persuading my parents to let me take this year off (no studying) is close to impossible, but I reckon it could be done. I need to show them that I'm capable of getting into an american college, though.</p>

<p>I'm writing my SAT I in may. I'm confident of getting above 750 in math, if all goes well (10th grade math here is tougher than SAT I math) and above 700 in the Critical Reading section. I'm not sure about the essay, but I don't suppose I will do badly.</p>

<p>However, do expect my GPA to be low. In my tenth grade finals (a big deal here), I got an 81.2% average, with 95% in math. My 11th grade finals were bad, with an average of only 58%. I'm waiting for my 12th grade results, but I don't forsee good things. (I have an [arguably] valid reason for the drop in scores). I'm from India, so where does that put my GPA? (We don't use the GPA system here)</p>

<p>As of right now, my EC's are fairly sparse. I completed my 8th grade piano exam (from the Royal School of Music, London) in October '06. (I've been playing since I was five). After that, I stopped playing the piano, and began looking for another instrument. I now play the bass guitar (for my church, mainly). As a church we also visit orphanages and homes for the aged fairly often, and I suppose this could be counted as social work. </p>

<p>That's pretty much it. I hope to improve on that; I will have time up until the end of this year.</p>

<p>I believe that the worst american college is still better than the best indian college (in Bangalore, anyway) because the focus of the education there is different. Here, there is little to no focus on what the student wants to learn. Everyone goes to college just so that they can land a job one day, and for no other reason. The curriculum is strict, with almost no student control (there are one or two electives).</p>

<p>Any american college would be better, although I would obviously prefer colleges that are good for Computer Science.</p>

<p>Now, can someone tell me what my chances are for getting into any american college that has a decent CS program?</p>

<p>Also, does anyone have any other thoughts? I would appreciate it.</p>

<p>Thanks! :)</p>

<p>[I'm still researching colleges, but right now, Vassar and Oberlin look very good]</p>

2

<p>Timothy,</p>

<p>Have you read absolutely everything that is relevant to you on the international page here at cc? Have you contacted the EducationUSA center closets to you to get some personal advice?</p>

<p><a href="http://educationusa.state.gov/centers/#INDIA%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://educationusa.state.gov/centers/#INDIA&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>I used to work with one of those offices in Latin America, and the counselors that I knew there always had up-to-date information. If there is a charge for the service, it should be pretty inexpensive.</p>

<p>DO NOT COUNT ON GETTING IN TO A PLACE LIKE VASSAR OR OBERLIN. Admissions at those schools is extremely difficult. You need to have many options, and especially for Computer Science, you need to look at some public universities.</p>

<p>Wishing you the best.</p>

3

<p>1.You are an International and want financial aid.
Very few universities have needs blind admissions for internationals.
Only a few of the Ivies are needs blind for internationals.</p>

<p>2.You are Asian.
Many Asians do brilliantly in the Maths sections of the SAT.
You will be competing with people from your regions who have nearly perfect SATs. Many of the US universities feel that they have too many Asians and therefore have higher entry requirements for Indians, Chinese and Koreans.</p>

<ol>
<li>Your low GPA and lack of leadership positions is going to be a serious problem.</li>
</ol>

<p>Conclusion:
I think that you would find it hard to get a place at a university with a good CS program. Why not do your degree in India ? IIT and BIT have an excellent reputation in CS. Even the University of Madurai and the University of Chennai are good for CS.</p>

4

<p>@happymomof1 - I have read all that I could get my hands on. I haven't tried a counselling center though. I think I should go to one. Thanks!</p>

<p>
[quote]

DO NOT COUNT ON GETTING IN TO A PLACE LIKE VASSAR OR OBERLIN. Admissions at those schools is extremely difficult. You need to have many options, and especially for Computer Science, you need to look at some public universities.

[/quote]

I do know that. I plan on applying to as many safeties as possible. Vassar is a reach, definitely, and Oberlin is somewhere between a reach and a match.</p>

5

<p>
[quote]
Conclusion:
I think that you would find it hard to get a place at a university with a good CS program. Why not do your degree in India ? IIT and BIT have an excellent reputation in CS. Even the University of Madurai and the University of Chennai are good for CS.

[/quote]

Yes, I know this for a fact. However, the education at all these places is too rigid. I want something flexible; something that gives me the power to choose.</p>

<p>You make valid points, bearpooh. But the mere chance of me getting into an american university is too good to pass up (I think).</p>

<p>I suppose I could take '08 as a gap year anyway, and when I apply to american colleges in '09, if I don't get into any, then I could write my exams for local colleges. Is that wise, or just plain stupid?</p>

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<p>"Is that wise, or just plain stupid?"</p>

<p>In India, the CS is a 3 year course at most universities ( except the IITs)
The smart thing to do would be to finish your degree in India and then do a PhD in the UK (3 years ) or in the US ( 7 years or more ). I have relatives from India who have done this and are now gainfully employed by IBM, Microsoft, Google etc in fairly senior positions. </p>

<p>The non-smart option is to waste a year. Taking a gap year when your chance of getting into a US university is not particularly high seems rather foolish. But it is your life. Feel free to stuff it up.</p>

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<p>Anyone?</p>

<p>bump</p>

8

<p>I feel like there is always some place you could get a scholarship at. Maybe not financial aid but merit aid? Or some of both? </p>

<p>For example, maybe you're a reject at Vassar, a match at Oberlin, but a stand out WOWSA student at some other lower quality school. </p>

<p>But is that what you would want?</p>

9

<p>
[quote]
For example, maybe you're a reject at Vassar, a match at Oberlin, but a stand out WOWSA student at some other lower quality school.
But is that what you would want?

[/quote]

I'm not really sure. I think I'd like that better than studying here, mainly because I'll have that much more control over what I study.</p>

10

<p>I do not think you need to resign yourself to an Indian school if that is not your preference. However, I agree with all the previous posters that you are up against a lot with quite a few weak points in your application. Oberlin would be a very big reach for you, as would Vassar, so, if you decide that American school is the way to go, apply to a VERY wide range of schools. If you are not willing to apply to less famous schools then don't bother applying at all. Also, in your gap year, should you pursue the American college, you should ramp up your community service and extracurricular activities in a way pertinent to your future studies and write about what/why you're doing in your application essays.</p>

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<p>I'm definitely going to apply to a wide variety of colleges. I'd go anywhere. :)</p>

<p>About the gap year, I think I can make a better decision after seeing my SAT scores.</p>

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<p>Here is a bit of advice:
In addition to applying at Oberlin, apply to the University of Akron, since you are considering Northeastern Ohio. They have a decent CS department and they are not difficult to get into - if you are looking at a large public university. You know, you can go on the US News and World Report college rankings site and sort the colleges by admission rate, and then investigate the CS programs at the colleges with high admission rates - and see it the CS program is in a section of the college that is not too hard to get into. </p>

<p>Getting into a liberal arts college with a CS major might be easier than getting into the technology section of a large university. Also in Northeastern Ohio, I would recommend Hiram College. You will get in here and I think you would enjoy it - a real American college experience
<a href="http://admission.hiram.edu/learn/computerscience.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://admission.hiram.edu/learn/computerscience.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>I think that working during the GAP year and saving money for college is a reasonable idea.</p>

13

<p>Maybe you already know this, but you can consider "playing your bass guitar in a musical ensemble for homes for the elderly" as a "community service activity" on your college applications. (Especially if you are applying to a college that has a Christian religious affiliation, you could mention that you are doing this with a group from your church.) Do other community service activities this year if you can, too. These will help your college application. </p>

<p>Being the president of a club is also helpful on a college application. If there is no club that you want to be the president of, you could form a club. Founding and leading a new club is a good extracurricular activity on a college application. Leadership Experience and Extracurricular Activities. (Try filling out a Common App form and see how you look on it.)</p>

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<p>"I plan on applying to as many safeties as possible."</p>

<p>there is no such thing as a safety for an international student who needs financial aid. I think you need a wake-up call. Your GPA is low, your leadership is non-existant and you have few ECs. Coming from India, the competition just for college admission is tough -- for students who also need financial aid, the competition is unbelieveably fierce.</p>

<p>I think you need to understand that you will most likely not be accepted into a US school with enough financial aid to attend -- and make your plans accordingly.</p>

<p>For those who are giving advice on adding more to the ECs -- keep in mind that this student only has maybe 2 months left of school before he graduates.</p>

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<p>Maybe he could start and lead a service club in his high school and neighborhood, so it could continue after high school ended?</p>

<p>If he needs a lot of financial aid to come to the U.S., I agree with you, hsmomstef, of course - it will be very difficult. He is a good student, but there are many good international students. He probably does not yet have some special "something" that would make a US college (from among the US colleges that give money to internationa students) to want to pay a lot of money for him to come to the U.S. for college.</p>

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<p>timothyandrew, bluntly put, you are not going to get into a college you would consider worthwhile with your stats. If you get accepted into a no-name school, then you don't have great prospects for grad school, etc.</p>

<p>Get into the best college you can get into in India, then come here for grad work. Whilst in college, cultivate a genuine EC, some leadership or research that shows heart and the rest will fall into place. You seem to focus on Indian v American college, etc. Instead focus on your interest, pursue CS and music whatever wherever you find yourself with genuine fascination for the subject and it will take you far.</p>

<p>The matter is not about location, brand, etc it comes down to you; the founders of CS didn't go to college to get a CS degree. Admittedly, things are a little different from the time when Alan Turing tooled around Oxbridge but the issue is the same: passion not brand.</p>

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<p>This is not correct:
"If you get accepted into a no-name school, then you don't have great prospects for grad school, etc."</p>

<p>Many people go to good medical, law, and graduate schools from liberal arts colleges that a person obsessed with the name of a college would consider a "no-name" school. </p>

<p>Any college you contact will be able to tell you how many of its grads applied to grad school and how many were accepted. </p>

<p>Although people obsessed by the name of a school would probably only want to know how many were accepted to what "name people" consider good medical, law, and graduate schools. Harvard, Yale, Princeton or nothing, right? :-)</p>

<p>I think your challenges will be finding a college that you will be able to afford to attend (I don't think you can count on scholarships or financial aid) and dealing with the paperwork and logistics involved in coming to the U.S. for college.</p>

<p>I do not think you will have trouble getting accepted to an American college that would provide you with a great education. (If you can't count on financial aid and want to study in the U.S., you might consider an inexpensive U.S. college. US News and World Report also lets you sort the colleges in each category by price.)</p>

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<p>Thank you all for your replies. This is just too much for me to handle right now. I've decided to wait till my SAT scores are out, and then take a call.</p>

<p>(I'm writing the SAT on may 3rd.)</p>

<p>Thanks again! :)</p>

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<p>"I now play the bass guitar (for my church, mainly). As a church we also visit orphanages and homes for the aged fairly often, and I suppose this could be counted as social work."</p>

<p>One last idea for you to take with you, what is your specific religious denomination, and are there any colleges affiliated with that denomination in the US? Even if the CS program is not so good, perhaps a year (or two) there to do the liberal arts things that you seem to want to do would be a good thing before completing a CS program elsewhere.</p>

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<p>Hello Timothy,
it is better for you to get into some college in India and start your B.Sc, and concentrate on staying on top of your grades this year. You can plan to come to US next year. The problem now anywhere is your grades. Dont be under the misconception that education is easy in US. Kids here sweat it out to get into good college. They start off early on in middleschool. I am from Bangalore, did my schooling to PhD in BLore. Now my kids are growing up here, one in college, other is dreading the collegeapp next fall. I have been in India for my education and seeing my kids going through the same here. The requirements to get into a good college here are not only grades. They application has to be loaded with great SAT scores, extracuuricular activities out of which at least in one the candidate should have shown passion, great essay, community service, they can decorate their application with lots of national level contests awards. There are many who have got rejected in their colleges of choice inspite of scoring 2400 in SAT or having super A's or awards. </p>

<p>I am not saying all these to scare you. I am just letting you know what the college application process is like. I have been there in India for my education, and now I am here for my kids education and seeing it now.
Your grades will get you only in some small community college and I dont think you or your parents will be happy about it. That too getting in this year is not possible. Because the admission period is over. It is best for you to complete your BSc with high performance, get good GRE and TOEFL scores
and come for Masters. That will be the advice from me.</p>