<p>Just like there's high school students and the SAT and a whole application.
*For Medical School, whats a decent MCAT score and a good application *</p>
<p>I'm reading posts and I have seen other online posts and people with mcats between 31 and 36 are having a lot of trouble getting into a medical school. What makes medical school admissions so difficult. If 28 is the average score, why isn't a 35 good enough for Columbia. Many people would probably say it's too low of Columbia. But why? What makes columbias medical school different from say, Drexel or NYU. </p>
<p>What Mcat score, gpa, and extracurriculars make someone competitive for a medical school like Columbia or WashingtonU. ** ?? ** I just don't get it. Some people have really good gpas and mcats and get many rejections. </p>
<p>Coming into my freshman year, I want to be prepared with some stable knowledge on medical school admissions. I might be turning 18, but I believe it's never too early. I have seen 12 year olds working on SAT's and they seem to be on their 'A Game' by their junior year in high school. So same with me, I want to know how to attack AMCAS now, so I can be ready when my time comes. Just asking for some help. And I apologize for so many questions.
Prefer responses from experienced people.</p>
<p>Medical school admissions are extremely competitive. You not only need excellent grades and standardized scores (MCAT), you need to be able to communicate well orally and in writing, be able to articulate clearly and fluently your reasons for wanting to go into medicine and have sufficient non-academic experiences that demonstrate:
–your sincere commitment to public service
–your commitment to the healthcare profession specifically
–your familiarity with the medical profession as practiced in the US and its rigors and rewards
–an understanding of the research process together with its pitfalls and potentials</p>
<p>Many, many students start out as pre-meds during their freshmen year. By senior year, 60-75% of those freshmen pre-meds have fallen out of the program. Some due to weak grades in required core courses; more due to changing interests or an unwillingness to jump thru all the many required hoops that med school adcomms expect.</p>
<p>Of the 25% who remain pre-meds and take the MCAT, about half do not enter the application process. Of those who do complete the med school application process, 60% are not accepted at any medical school.</p>
<p>RE: average MCAT score. About 100,000-120,000 unique individuals each year. Counting all US allopathic and osteopathic medical school seats, there are only about 23,000 openings available each year. It’s a matter of supply and demand. Too many better qualified applicants; too few available seats.</p>
<p>As to why certain schools accept certain people—I’ve watched my 2 kids got thru the process plus a number of their friends and I have no clue why school A says “yes” and school B says “no”. Partly it’s because an applicants has to match the mission of an individual school, but the rest—I’ve given up trying to guess how med school adcomms decide from among thousands of highly qualified candidates. From the outside, on a micro level, it looks pretty damned random.</p>
<p>I agree at the “pretty damned random” part. A 4.0/40 from a “better” college could be wait-listed by Columbia P&S, while a 4.0/32 from a lesser school could be accepted with a generous scholarship by the same school in the same application year.</p>
<p>Someone my not appreciate or be happy with the outcomes of a given heuristic, but the process is certainly not “random”. Also, judging from the results, Columbia is doing a wonderful job, much better than many of their peers.</p>
<p>You’re right that it’s not literally random, but it does have elements of randomness in the sense that there’s a certain element you can’t control. Your whole future at a given school may rest in essentially 1 or 2 people’s opinions of you - often based largely not on your academic muster because everyone getting interviewed is academically qualified but more on your personality and demeanor, and when you’re up against so many qualified applicants for each spot, even the littlest thing you do or say can become what makes or breaks your application. What makes people equate this to randomness is because if a different set of people interviewed you (or even the same set on a different day) you could end up with a wildly different evaluation despite being the same applicant. This is even more so with MSTPs. My program has become so competitive that literally one person out of 6 scoring you below “I’d give up my first born to guarantee this person enrolls” (we have 3 different levels of “accept” when we rate applicants) can land you on the wait list.</p>
<p>What people are acknowledging is that when you average this over the 15-20 schools that an applicant applies to, the “noise” associated with the randomness of each school is reduced and you end up being able to accurately predict the type of person who can get in somewhere despite not being able to accurately predict who gets in at each individual school. It’s a process that exists in everything because when you’re being evaluated by people their own conscious and unconscious biases become a very real part of the process and there’s only so much you can do to appeal to those. The fact that there is a certain element beyond your control is what people are describing as “the randomness” of the process.</p>
<p>-way too early to wonder about MCAT, vast majority of initial pre-meds never get to apply to Med. School (about 85%)
-“people with mcats between 31 and 36 are having a lot of trouble getting into a medical school.” - Not true.
-competitive for everywhere would be 4.0/40. Practically nobody has this stats. Everything else is pretty much up in a air, not predictable.
-Stats are only part of the requirements, although the most important part.
-“Coming into my freshman year, I want to be prepared with some stable knowledge on medical school admissions.” - USELESS. More so, based on D’s (and her pre-med firends) experience, do not consider Med. School when choosing your college and college major. Choose the place that fits your personality and wide range of interests in the best way. If this place happens to have a great pre-med committee and happens to be very cheap (free?) for you, then these are icing on your cake. I feel very very sorry for “12 year olds working on SAT’s”. What a miserable life. They should be enjoying their childhood, making frineds, develop academically and socially. SAT is a very low level test that would require about one week of prep. right before the test. MCAT on the other hand is extremely hard and would require several hours every day for several weeks. Developing personality that can withstand working hard for a long period of time is a great goal. Having this goal at 12 is way too early. If you “want to know how to attack AMCAS now”, my advice would be to grow personally as much as you can, develop communication skills at your best, always aim at A in every class, including the ones that you hate and the ones that you have hard time with. Relax and enjoy your HS for now, it will not repeat, time will be very very limited.</p>
<p>Woah. ^ Im just stating random things I have seen. In no way shape or form stating facts. Im writing general statements. </p>
<p>Nice to assume about people who take time preparing for a standardized test 4 years before they will take it have miserable lives.
I mean obviously I am too young, but I still want to know. Please when replying leave the condescending remarks for other threads. </p>
<p>Moreover, you stated some facts. Especially about the part “attacking AMCAS.” ( Grow personally, communication skills, aim for A’s, Enjoy Highschool) Good advice.</p>
<p>So far, I have learned a lot. That is the main reason I am here.</p>
<p>Since I never answered anything in your OP,</p>
<p>Purchase this: <a href=“https://www.aamc.org/students/applying/requirements/msar/[/url]”>https://www.aamc.org/students/applying/requirements/msar/</a> for a better understanding of the GPA/MCAT of students enrolled at schools. Also, when you’re talking about GPAs/MCATs, don’t get confused between what “competitive” stats are vs. “average” stats. 35 is definitely “good enough” for Columbia, but since that’s around or below their average score, it’s not exactly “competitive” (i.e. putting you towards the top of the applicant pool). </p>
<p>As WOWmom said, The average MCAT score of test takers is below the average of applicants which is below the average of med students. The average of med students is the 85th-90th percentile on the MCAT. So roughly half of students are below that and roughly half are above that. 31-36 is definitely good enough to get into medical school. 31 is well below average at the schools you mentioned, and to get in with a score like that will require that you be exceptional in other areas. 36 is as I said above: average, at those schools. Not bad enough to close the door, but not good enough to open it on its own.</p>
<p>Being a doctor requires a lot more than a certain level of mental acumen, and that’s why plenty of people with high scores don’t get in. Additionally, plenty of people who have no reason to be rejected still do simply because there are more applicants than spots and schools have to draw the line somewhere. This is why building the right application list can be critical. A kid with a 36 can’t only apply to top schools - sure, they have the stats to get into them but they could also very well not.</p>
<p>If you want to see now what the records of kids who get in look like, try mdapplicants.com, but know it’s a very biased sample of students because I would guess the majority of applicants don’t post on it and it’s also obviously totally unverified.</p>
<p>OP,
You really need to chill about Med. School.<br>
Discussions on this forum are for much older than 17 y o. I am sure you have more current things to worry about just like any other 17 y o. I have raised 2 kids, I know what I say. You are going way ahead of your time. No 12 y o should be preparing for the SAT, unless he is taking it in a week. No 17 y. o. should be thinking about MCAT unless he is taking it in 6 months. Then the worry is what Med. Schools will think about such a young applicant.<br>
I am very serious when I said that it will hurt more than help.</p>
<p>OP, I like your initiative and interest. I think if you maintain, you are going to do very well. As for the MCAT, you want the highest score possible and you do this by preparing yourself. The preparation starts as soon as you start taking the basic prerequisite courses. (bio, chem, physics, etc.) If you want an exceptional score on the MCAT, learn the content of these classes in a way that will make it stay with you. Never let a single fact, concept, exercise get by you if you didn’t understand it completely. And don’t let anyone tell you it’s too early :)</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>:eek: What?
I could not disagree more with the above quote.</p>
<p>Just putting into prospective, I have just advised my own D. not to worry about her next 6 months (another rotation) because she is whooping 4 weeks away from it. I told her that it is way too early to worry about it, while she actually have lots of detailed information about what is coming.
How in a world HS kid should worry about Med. School beats me! I would never ever advise my own to think that much ahead. The plan is completely wrong and upside down. However, we are in free country and everybody could bang themselves down as much as they wish. I do not know how to fell free and enjoy every day events if on top of the current (normal) things one is taking care of stuff that may never occur in one’s life.<br>
Again, you are free to put yourself thru misery, your choice!</p>
<p>MiamiDAP , you’re falsely assuming I’m super worried about the ‘MCAT’ or ‘Medical School’ and since you raised two children I guess you have the best opinion… So since bill gates dropped out of school I’m sure he knows nothing about education? </p>
<p>So objective. I’m not worried about anything. just here asking for a little bit of information and for someone with experience to answer my questions because I was confused. Of course there’s chances I might not even take an Mcat, but for now that is my plan and I want some information. And just because I am here doesn’t mean I’m stressed or overwhelmed. I live a happy life and I am a 17 year old seeking to become an MD in the future.</p>
<p>Anyways, to the more important things,
Thanks I wanna be brown for your reply that answered my question fairly well and stated some good advice and replied totally opposite of condescending. I appreciate it
And to plumazul, thank you for your put in and motivation :)</p>