Please read more closely IVCUSA111, you just keep digging a deeper hole. They didn’t give you false hope, you did that yourself. You didn’t read the criteria of the scholarships, which clearly said it requires an interview. Read madbeans post again. Take responsibility when you take things on and don’t blame others for your shortcomings, it will make you a better person, truly. And as madbean mentioned, if one can’t afford the flight, how do they survive in southern California for four years? There are certainly less expensive options - virtually any other college in the US is cheaper that USC!
??? What hole? I’m not even trying to argue with anyone, I was looking for advice. I agree with what your saying. I knew it required an interview, however I was looking for a way to conduct it without having to travel. And I know they didn’t give me false hope, I said personally thats what it feels like to me. I’m not avoiding any responsibility, I know that they didn’t do anything wrong. But thanks for the advice.
When did USC turn into the University of Phoenix?. As an alum, I find the above statement embarrassing.
Someone shouldn’t be required to fly to Southern California to interview for a scholarship. I don’t know what the odds of getting a Presidential Scholarship are, but I sure wouldn’t waste money flying in from Europe if there was anything less than a 90% chance of getting it.
They are not a business and colleges don’t operate anything like businesses, I wish students wouldn’t say such nonsense.
Somehow this conversation drifted from what IS required to what SHOULD BE required, which is confusing.
From related threads, it seems you will at least be reasonably assured of getting 4k a year, which might make it worth it to some. The upside being you could get a half or full tuition out of it. But you can turn down the interview, and I think that you are still eligible for Dean’s scholarship.
USC meets 100% of demonstrate need. As said earlier, this is just for merit which is separate.
Actually, they are a not-for-profit entity that gives money to in-need people that meet certain criteria, so yes, they are a charity in many respects. They are other things as well, but there is a significant aspect to the university’s various functions that is exactly like a charity. All charities have to run like businesses to some degree. The larger the charity, the more true this becomes. And I don’t understand at all the statement about the US not giving aid to internationals (which isn’t true anyway, if one looks at any number of US funded agencies). We are not talking about the USA here, we are talking about USC, which does indeed give aid to internationals, quite often without expecting to be repaid. It is not clear to me how that is not akin to charity.
BTW, a lot of internationals make other arrangements rather than flying back and forth during breaks and such, precisely because of the expense. So arguing that this is just one more trip, or that if you cannot afford this trip you shouldn’t consider USC is elitist and ludicrous.
Now I agree that USC can have whatever stipulations and criteria they want for these scholarships. That doesn’t mean I have to think that the terms are fair, especially for a school that has an endowment the size of USC’s and quite frankly can easily afford to subsidize these students that truly have financial need. That is really all I am saying. They are absolutely free to keep their policy as it is and discriminate against those students that come from economically strapped backgrounds. Sure, those same students might get full grants from the school, and that is great. But should they really be denied the prestige, perks such as research opportunities, etc. and the resume building that comes with a competitive merit scholarship just because they cannot afford a round trip ticket? Again, especially in light of the considerable wealth USC has amassed, they could easily make this fair for all. IMHO, with not-for-profit status comes certain responsibilities.
Fallen, you are right to point out that an organization or a private person for that matter can put whatever criteria they choose on their gifts.
USC gives more merit $ than any other top 25 ranked university, which many who hope to attend an academically strong college find admirable. As has been stated several times, and as is clearly known by anyone who applies to college, USC has a completely separate process to apply for Financial Aid and their financial aid department gives FA to over 60% of USC’s student body. FA grants awards do not require a student to self-pay for a trip to finalist interviews, as there are no interviews–as one would expect, right?
Referring to USC’s “amassed” considerable wealth sounds odd to me–like one is annoyed USC–or any university-- has been successful in their fundraising efforts. I admire that they choose to give so much of their money to bring gifted students to USC. I am grateful they give so many large merit awards, which often provide significant relief for middle-income students, a group largely left out of significant FA. If this were a thread about how more colleges should give middle-income families more FA (following Harvard and Stanford), I would agree. But that’s not this topic.
So back to ours. Among the more than 600 large merit awards given to each incoming class, USC gives automatic NMF Presidential Merit Scholarships to more than 250 freshmen each year. The NMF Presidential Scholarship requires no interview (and therefore travel expenses) and is guaranteed to all admitted NMFs. And the criteria for receiving almost $100,000 in tuition over 4 years is simple: one test on one day during junior year.
So there’s Financial Aid, and there’s the NMF Presidential, or there’s the rest of USC’s merit scholarships. They are awarded in a competition that indeed has rules and requirements. These have not changed for many many years, and are published. I think USC is as fair as it can be, but not perfect, of course. In a perfect world, every one of these talented students could go to their dream schools for free.
Hi @madbean. First, I think you are putting a very personal interpretation on the word “amassed”. No negative connotation was meant at all, USC has been spectacularly successful in fundraising and are to be congratulated for it. In fact, it is a large part of the basis for my comment that such success should be used to equalize the opportunity for all qualified students to be able to participate in the scholarships that require interviews, should USC continue to insist that those interviews be in person. But to be clear, most schools are highly envious of USC’s success in fundraising. Annoyed is a word that never would have occurred to me.
Second, I wouldn’t debate that USC has many fine programs to aid students, both those in need and those based on merit. I just disagree that USC is “as fair as it can be” as long as students that cannot afford the travel are excluded from process for the scholarships that require those interviews. I am not trying to make USC sound evil or that this is the biggest problem that ever faced any university. Far, far from it. It is just that I think this would be a relatively easy thing to improve, since according to someone that posted on another thread they currently offer up to $200 in supplementary funds for travel. Just change that number to meet need, and problem solved. I don’t think anyone could convince me that they cannot easily afford it.
Simple supply and demand. USC is one of the very few top 25 schools who even offer merit scholarships- making it unique in helping out full pay/majority pay families who want a great school at a discounted price.
My D is currently applying to med school. If you are lucky, you get invited to interview for a seat at a specific med school, All travel related costs are paid by the interviewee, with absolutely no guarantee of anything. Most are not accepted and you are out $$$ each time. But, you have no choice. Med schools need to see who the person on the paper actually is before giving out one of their very limited seats. Supply and demand.
USC merit scholarships are the same. Very high demand and very limited supply. USC can ask for the best fit candidates to take these limited scholarships. One criteria is meeting each candidate in person and adding this interview to the credentials mentioned on the application. USC has decided this is an important part of their selection process, or they would not require it.
If you cannot afford the cost of the flight, yes this is a serious handicap. It would be amazing if USC would cover the full cost. However, it isn’t, and they do expect you to make the trip and show them your commitment to them. It is an investment in your future. If they did pay full cost of everyone’s flight, this money would have to come from somewhere else. There is no free lunch. I’d rather the rest of the USC students not offered a major merit scholarship not bear these cuts, JMHO.
I know a number of universities that will not accept any applicants until they eyeball, them, personally interview them. You have qualified in a part of getting the award, and the other part is the interview. They want to personally talk to the candidates. If you have high financial need, and cannot afford to go for the interview, say so. If you don’t want to pay for this when you can, then you don’t do it. It’s your decision.
@camomof3
I think you would be amazed at how small an amount is actually involved relative to the enormous budget of USC. They could eliminate one mailing of their marketing materials and probably cover this expense. Besides, there are alternatives to simply paying for everyone that gets an initial invite that cannot afford it. They could add a step that those that got past the initial screening but are not comfortable with the expense could be interviewed by one person via Skype or phone, and that person could make a determination if it makes sense to pay the expense.
Like I said, if you or anyone else is comfortable with the idea of shutting out those students from the process, then so be it. For a school that has the resources of USC, I am not. JMHO.
Rules are rules and everyone has a hardship. Every single person applying could make a case for being given the travel money, or a break on their books when they get there, or their housing, or the tuition. Affordability is subjective. Many times we see people with the most money knowing how to play poor conveniently well. But either way, supply/demand rules.They drew their line on this and it makes sense. Again, if you can’t afford a trip to possibly get $100k+ in free tuition, how will one afford the rest of it over four years? In that sense, this is an effective tool at screening those that can actually be successful at USC - it takes more than academics to survive in college.
My friend’s DD is interviewing for a number of positions and programs in the next few months. Few reimburse the travel costs and if she doesn’t go, no chance at those jobs. So it goes with some things.
However, for these sorts of things, many colleges will pay for the cost of the trip if the student has demonstrated need.
My daughter is a trustee scholar. She thought she would be selling herself to USC during the interview. However, the weekend is designed in large part to sell USC to top scholars. Students who receive merit scholarships at USC have more than likely been admitted to other top schools. Getting kids to USC to see the campus (especially in February!) often seals the deal. USC was already at the top of her list, so it was an easy sell.
Her brother was offered merit scholarships at several universities. He had not previously visited any of the schools. However, the in-person visit at Tulane (Hi, @fallenchemist) prompted him to choose that school.
Granted, traveling to USC for the interview is expensive for many. But the likely savings (I have never heard of any student left empty-handed) in tuition are tremendous.
I know some schools that just don’t include international students in their awards. It’s an issue that one has to examine when international and looking for school.
I won’t even dignify that with a response beyond that it isn’t even remotely true. I find the rest of your post elitist and rather offensive. Lots of people in dire circumstances have succeeded at Harvard, Yale, Stanford, and I am sure USC, just as examples. History says your premise is rubbish.
@museoffire
Thanks for the shout out! I agree that it most likely making the trip would result in a net gain for students, sometimes spectacularly. But if the cash isn’t there to pay for the ticket…
Anyway, I think I have made my opinion clear. I will let it drop at this stage.
@fallenchemist
“Like I said, if you or anyone else is comfortable with the idea of shutting out those students from the process, then so be it. For a school that has the resources of USC, I am not. JMHO.”
No where did I state such a thing. I pointed out that you have to make economic tradeoffs. Paying full fare for students to fly to USC would not be insignificant when we are talking 1,000 students. Without filling out FAFSA and Need Access (or CSS profile- I have no idea what USC uses these days), how would you draw the line? These forms are not due yet so USC cannot process need. Thus, all would have to be welcome to compensation.
USC is working hard to build up its endowment. Currently it is far behind many top 10 US universities (dwarfed by Harvard, Stanford, etc…). Increasing this will hopefully allow for changes in policies-- maybe they could finance trips to USC for scholarship interviewees if they decide.
****If students can truly not afford a plane ticket to USC to interview, then they will get financial aid that is far superior to a merit scholarship and such a trip would not be necessary anyway. There is no shutting out truly needy students. These scholarships help upper middle/top income families who pay partial to full pay the most.
People that succeed from dire circumstances don’t complain and wait for handouts, they make it happen. If that seems elitist so be it. USC is one of the most, if not the most, expensive school in the U.S. There are other options for an education, everyone has to make choices that work for them, being realistic about goals can be helpful. Plenty of people work very hard to get themselves there one way or another whether through aid, full pay, or whatever their particular circumstance and ability allows. Many would be so thankful to have the opportunity to interview, period.
But that’s the point, they don’t have the opportunity.
@camomof3
I will address one thing you said, without getting back into USC’s policy. You did say you preferred the status quo, which I translated as comfort with the current state of things.
Then you say “No where did I state such a thing” in response to my saying you were comfortable with kids that cannot afford the trip to USC being shut out of the process. That is not compatible with what I pointed out from your earlier post, if I am reading it correctly.
BTW, there is no way 1,000 kids would be asking for full reimbursement. There are schools that waive fees and pay for travel for students before getting all the financial information and they don’t seem to suffer from anything remotely resembling massive fraud. I suspect in the case of USC, we are talking a few percent of the applicants asked to come to USC for the interviews. Most likely less than 5%. The cost would be small, relatively speaking.