I'm posting it a second time as need to talk to DD over the break about Expenses!!

Parents Forum
81

<p>Seems to me the dollar amount per month isn’t the issue here, but rather the goal of helping your dau. to learn to manage her finances. Learning fiscal responsibility is a <em>very</em> important self help skill. Why in tarnation, if you value higher education so much, would you spend a lot of money on a expensive private high schools and college where your dau was educated by the best of the best, but then expect her to learn by the seat of her pants and deprive her of an education when it comes to important life skills? She has the opportunity to be taught how to manage her money. For crying out loud, teach her! Otherwise she will likely be one who pays only her minimum balance on credit cards if she hasn’t lived within her monthly income and will find herself in a mountain of debt, and expect you to bail her out.</p>

<p>If you don’t want her to go below her minimum in her account, or heaven forbid bounce a check or overdraft her account, then teach her how to plan for this. It is EXTREMELY important to learn. It is easy to do right, but also easy to do wrong. She should also be learning about savings, investments, and the beauty of compound interest. Please, if you love your daughter, TEACH her these things, don’t expect her to learn it on her own. You haven’t expected that in the past 13+ years of education. Don’t start now.</p>

<p>I have a dear friend who was married to a very wealthy man. She saved $ and invested, and had a vacation property (now long since sold b/c they needed the $$) and had a reasonable nest egg, but she also has very, very expensive taste. Well, they are now divorced, and he hasn’t paid her what he promised, and he is nowhere to be found (story for another time). She sold her huge house (which she had some, but not a lot of equity in) but moved into an expensive townhome,and continued driving her very expensive (but paid for) car. She found a 40K/yr job, but totalled her car. Had to buy a new one. I suggested she get a modestly priced car. No. She convinced herself that she was better off with another expensive import with a maintenance service. She can’t afford the monthly payments on the car, but somehow justified it with this maintenance service bill of goods she was sold. So she now has an expensive mortgage and expensive car payment plus lots of other expenses, and 2 adult kids who also live way above their means and have been bailed out by the parents in the past, so still don’t get it.</p>

<p>Fast forward-- she loses her job in this economy, and hasn’t yet found another one (since last summer). She talks to a friend who, when he asked what she wants/needs to earn, calculates her base monthly expenses (house, car, insurance, utilities, etc)tells him she needs to make at least $90K just to pay her bills. You can see where this is going. She has tried to rent out a room in her home. No luck. She is under water in her car loan payment, so cant get out of that (would still owe even if she sold it) and same thing goes for her house. She can’t refinance because she has no income (she didn’t get unemployment after she lost her job- another story for another time). It is really sad, but despite the rapid depletion of her savings, she continues to go out for meals with friends at nice restaurants (won’t use a coupon, she thinks thats tacky), buys and drinks nice bottles of wine, etc. She is going to end up on the street soon if she doesnt watch out. She is in fact trying to sell her townhouse and will have to move into an apartment, if she can afford the rent in a place she is willing to live in, with her high standards. Please, DON’T let your daughter grow up like my friend, believing that someone will pay her bills. This is fantasy land, unless you do truly have unlimited resources and she has no need to ever worry about wanting for anything.</p>

82

<p>I have a D who loves to spend my money. But when she is spending her own money, she is very cost conscious and frugal. </p>

<p>I think that I would give your D ownership over the money. I would give your D a certain amount of money a month (your $750 a month sounds very generous) and tell her it is hers to manage. If she can make do with less, then she can keep the amount left over. If she needs to spend more than $750, then she’ll have to fund that out of her savings. And I would quit watching her every purchase–except to make sure she is paying her CC bill every month.</p>

<p>The way things stand, she has no incentive to rein in her spending–no consequences for overspending since money keeps magically appearing and her parents don’t seem to be going ballistic.</p>

83

<p>why dont u look up the price of what meal plans at other schools are for the quarter/semester, and give her that amount that you would have spent had she been at said school. (no meal plan at mit? really? fail) then she can figure out exactly how much she can eat out.</p>

<p>the same logic applies to paying for an apartment. the goal is to spend just as much or less than what you were paying for the dorm on rent and utilities, or at least my goal is.</p>

<p>oh, and get your daughter to cook something lol
knowing how to cook just as important as finances! she will be healthier and spend less for it</p>

84

<p>marite:

</p>

<p>Thanks for posting this; this is what my experience at dorm since 17yrs of age. Most students at any college end up spending approximately in the same range unless you go to school where there are exclusive groups of students spending insane amount.
The reasoning is students tends to eat in groups and you choose a restaurant that suits the minimum spending student in the group.</p>

<p>So it should not be a rocket science to come up with a workable budget.</p>

<p>But I got the point made repeatedly that she might not have any incentive to work out a budget on her own and I should at least ask her to work it out.</p>

85

<p>Wow, as an MIT student, $750 a month is absolutely ridiculous. Even if she is actually eating three real meals a day, there are plenty of options where she could eat well on less than $20 a day. If your daughter wants tips on easy meals to cook, PM me and I’ll give you my school e-mail address. But seriously, cooking is a valuable skill, MIT is awesome because we have full kitchens, and your daughter is being pretty lazy if she doesn’t want to take advantage of it. I bet there are tons of upperclassmen who live with her who would be more than happy to teach her how to cook. And, if she lives in East Campus, she can take the cooking class!</p>

<p>But seriously. I don’t actually know how you’d spend $750 a month in Boston unless you were going out every night, eating at fancy restaurants, etc. etc. Yes, learning to be an adult is kind of awful at first, but MIT has an awesome support network that she should rely on. I learned how to cook because I don’t have the money to eat out every day, and honestly, if my parents were giving me $750 every month because I told them that I didn’t like cooking, I would probably never have learned.</p>

86

<p>LMOP’s post #82 sums it up beautifully. My s#2 is similar. Always trying to convince me to pay for something tht should come out of his monthly allowance. We are in teh process of determining wht he should get as a monthly allowance next year wenhe lives off campus. We will determine what the rent and utilities will cost, give him a reasonable allowancce, gas (if he takes a car), etc, but when we set the amount, that will be it. No providing what I would consider a bonus for bad money management. He will get his fixed amount and be expected to live within iot. Period. Older s managed so tave $100/mo when we gave him a monthly allowance in college, and the only time he got $750/mo was when he lived off campus and that covered all his monthly costs. Granted it was not Boston, but still, $750/mo for food and sundries alone is very, VERY generous. Your d should NOT have to exceed that.</p>

87

<p>Great post #85…and from an MIT student. </p>

<p>Just an FYI…when DS lived OFF campus in Boston, we gave him $850 a month and that included his share of RENT, utilities, and FOOD. I can’t imagine spending $750 a month just on the food.</p>

88

<p>IIRC, POIH"s explanation for the very, VERY generous monthly allowance was for food, social events, sorosoity stuff, shopping (clothes, accessories, etc). I agree, itis VERY generous, but if thats what he wants his d do have per month, then thats his call. Bi\ut IMO, put in $750/mo into her account and tell her thats it. No more. Period. Live with it and the consequences of any overspending. IMO she’d have to work to exceed that allowance! </p>

<p>But again, TEACH HER how to manage ehr money. Don’t set her up to fail and have to pick up the pieces later. I know some very bright people who are very poor money managers. Doesn’t matter how much they earn, they never seemto have enough money to live on, and are either living hand to mouth or looking to mooch off the kindness of others.</p>

89

<p>POIH, I understand your reasoning but I don’t think it always works in practice. My parents had two “sets” of kids - three of us in the first five years and then two more when they were in their late 30’s/early 40’s. I was the middle child of the early set and we grew up, and went through college, living with modest fixed budgets. My parents and grandparents were savers, having lived through the Depression, and this eventually grew to a more prosperous lifestyle for the younger kids. The younger ones heard, but didn’t get, the message that prosperity comes through hard work and living below your means…probably because they never really had to put it into practice! They were given no real budgets and were bailed out when their spending exceeded the amount my parents had given them plus their own earnings. This pattern continued until my parents passed away, although we were all long since grown, educated, and with families of our own. In fact, the younger ones have been using their inheritances to bail themselves out and I’m dreading the day that well runs dry and they turn to us for more help! </p>

<p>They are not greedy or unintelligent people, but they are insecure when it comes to their ability to be self-sufficient, they make irrational choices, and are generally having a hard time adjusting their habits. It’s so much easier to just learn good habits to begin with! Fwiw, my parents did regret their decision not to impose limits during the college years and paid dearly for it. Like many, they were a “soft touch” when it came to their kids and grandchildren and felt obligated to honor their debts rather than letting the chips fall where they may.</p>

<p>You might also consider that your D and her future husband should be comfortable discussing finances, making budgets, compromising, and setting goals. If you can bring yourself to start these conversations and instill a sense that these things are a normal part of adult life, you will be doing her a great favor.</p>

90

<p>k4r3n2: Thanks for the input. Yes, I’ve seen the kitchen and they are fully loaded. She is trying to make use of it slowly.
I was just looking for a ball park amount to understand if she is learning the budgeting skills or not without asking her.
I’ve always been of the opinion that one has to understand things on their own, because then it stays with you for a long time.
If she remains within that amount then she has already learned the skills otherwise I need to talk her.</p>

<p>It seems $750/month might be on the higher side and may be I need to reduce it.</p>

91

<p>Apologies if someone has posted this earlier, but I googled “MIT meal plan” and got a connection to dining.mit.edu/meal-plans</p>

<p>MIT does not have a traditional meal plan. However, they do have Dining Dollars and TechCASH for eating on campus. A student who lives in certain residence halls is automatically enrolled in House Dining, which gives a 50% discount on meals.</p>

<p>Financial aid calculations are based on the assumption that students will spend an average of $20 per day on food. </p>

<p>Not to start an argument about gender stereotyping, but in my experience, young women tend to be somewhat pickier about food, and may need a break from on-campus food part of the time. Also, if POIH’s daughter is working very late hours, might she need a meal when the on-campus dining halls are closed?</p>

<p>(I see mathmom posted most of this on page 1!)</p>

92

<p>*limabeans: Yes, I also thought $20/day will be good enough but it seems that overall expenses increase way too much with the weekend entertainment. </p>

<p>Yes, dorm does provide a full kitchen and Refrigerator. She just not into cooking and will only eat breakfast if possible there. </p>

<p>*</p>

<p>Unless you enjoy paying for her weekend entertainment, I suggest she get a part-time job to pay for that.</p>

<p>As for “not liking cooking”…well, that’s part of life. I don’t “like” doing a lot of things, but I do them because I’m not a Rockefeller who has a paid staff to do these things.</p>

<p>I have a MIL who was raised in boarding schools and was quite spoiled. She never had to do things she didn’t like doing…hence she decided that she didn’t like cooking and never did. Her kids were raised on the worst diet ever…processed foods and take-out. Every single one of her kids has a serious auto-immune disease of some kind. I don’t know if eating the crap they did contributed, but…who knows… Someone never told my MIL that adults have to sometimes do things that they don’t like doing.</p>

93

<p>

</p>

<p>But you are not complaining about your FIL not cooking and providing all the nourishing diet to those children.
Why this gender stereo type? It is fine for boys to not like cooking and eat out as some day they will get married and have some one to cook food for them.
Then why not DD will find some one who will be good at work outside but also be a good cook and he will be cooking good food for her and the children.
Why it is expected of DD to learn it but not the boys?</p>

<p>Both DW and I are good cook and don’t mind cooking at all. She will also hopefully learn to cook but why it is fine for boys her age not to learn but she has too.</p>

94

<p>

</p>

<p>Finally a point on which I can agree with you, POIH! :)</p>

<p>It is true though, that a number of other posters described the cooking efforts of their sons who chose to live off campus.</p>

95

<p>If you and W are good cooks, try inviting her to cook a meal with you. Keep doing it. Give her something to do like chopping food or making a salad. Give her something simple to do like dressings, put together sandwiches, etc. She’ll find cooking isn’t all that terrible and much of a chore. She might even take in pride that she contributed something to the meal when there are compliments. Show her some interesting looking recipes or if she has a favorite item on a menu from somewhere, she can re-create it (especially salads!).</p>

<p>My mom’s an amazing cook so my brother and I were pretty spoiled for a long, long time. We kept saying that we don’t have much interest in cooking and it almost felt like a chore. Once we were on our own, however, we found all the skills we learned from our mom came in very handy. We received a lot of compliments from our friends because THEY had never learned to cook or their parents never cooked and having something homemade is a real special treat. When my friends struggled to cut up a melon, I said, “let me do it. I can cut up the melon in no time.” They sat there and stared in amazement how quickly and efficiently I did it. I suspect that sometimes my roommates are extremely jealous that I can throw together a gourmet type of meal for our weekly dinner even though they can cook.</p>

<p>You need to boost your D’s confidence in cooking. People don’t like to cook because they don’t feel the confidence because cooking requires skills. That’s what I am finding from my friends and roommates over the last 6 years since I graduated from high school. They just use “laziness” as an excuse. Sort of like why America is obsessed with Food Network channel because they watch all the shows and think “Wow I can’t do this…” even though some of the recipes they prepare are simple and they’ll use laziness as an excuse to hide the fact that they don’t have the confidence.</p>

<p>As for trying to teach her if she would save money by cooking more and eating less often, ask her what is the “big ticket” item that she hopes to get one day? If she says “Burberry purse.” Tell her that she has $750 for the month and if AT THE END OF THE MONTH if she still has $200, she can buy it. In order to do that… she’s going have to set her own limits. That’s how my parents taught me. They never taught me to budget (My high school business teacher and a personal finance course did) but rather say, “You have X amount of money and if you want something, you’re going have to figure out how to get that thing on your own.” As your D learns if she can learn to cut corners with her expenses, she will have greater disposable income at the end of each month that she can carry over to the next or put in her savings for something bigger (like a big trip).</p>

<p>You’re not wrong in your method but need to work on your approach. Say to your D when you go shopping together, “Hey I’m going to get Y because I was supposed to go for dinner with our friends last week at this nice restaurant (a restuarant where your D knows its menu price range) but it didn’t work out… so I still have $X to spend and I’m going to spend $X on Y.” When my mom does this, especially with shoes (as I LOVE shoes), I then realize that if I want to get that pair of shoes, I’m going have to find a way to get those shoes by changing my spending habits until I get them.</p>

96

<p>QuantMech:
She’s signed up for house dinning but only dinner is available and that also not everyday.
I also think $20/day is quite a reasonable amount. But the weekend social outings can make it worse.</p>

97

<p>mom2collegekids:

</p>

<p>She not only have a job but also saved a lot during her high school. But that doesn’t mean that she should go and spend all that money in a semester for social weekend outings.</p>

<p>That is why I want to just monitor whether or not she is learning to budget herself.</p>

98

<p>Food for thought (:slight_smile: ) - one could gain a lot of weight by eating out because of processed food. When D1 was eating at her school cafeteria, even though she tried to eat healthy, she still gained weight. Last year when she lived in her sorority and the cook was using more natural, fresh food, she lost most of the weight. Now she is living off campus, she only eats organic. I just visited last weekend. I checked out her fridge, she had a lot of tofu, vegie, fruit, chicken and fish. She also had frozen dumplings for emergency. She makes a lot of Asian noodle soup herself - tofu, chicken, bok choy and noodle. She doesn’t like to cook either, but she likes to watch her weight and her budget. She’ll splurge by getting capuccino or go to Statler’s hotel for lunch.</p>

99

<p>ticklemepink:
Thanks for the detailed information, it does make sense. DW has started involving her in the kitchen to some extent but I always get furious because most of my friends won’t let their boys of DD age go into kitchen. Then why DD has to do it unless she wants too.</p>

100

<p>oldfort:
Thanks for pointing out to the real cons of eating out. That is the route I generally take with her. Asking her to shop organic where ever possible and avoid too much of processed food.
Since both DW and I don’t hate cooking, we will be working with her in the kitchen more often but we have not had time to spend with her at home much. Winter breaks was over vacationing and spring break is also going to be spend like that. It is just that she comes after long time so we want to go places with her indulging in activities and spending time together without bothering about cooking.</p>