<p>Here is a cartoon for those that think hard work is the way to get rich....</p>
<p>kamscnerd are you high or something. I clearly stated AA should be abolished and guess what, so did the majority of the people when they voted for prop 2. obviously my opinions match with the majority. it is also pretty dam obvious that yours dont cuz u seen passionately against prop 2. so maybe you should leave the country</p>
<p>No now wait a minute...why are people telling other people to leave the country. We can talk about this subject without being ridiculous.</p>
<p>KB</p>
<p>"You are not a minority and thus u dont even know what u are talking about."</p>
<p>here is the ignorant statement i was referring to. I'm sorry that, for reasons unknown to me, you cannot present a valid argument without slinging insults, but I am glad to say I have never used drugs or alcohol in my entire life.
something the majority, most likely including you, cannot say.</p>
<p>lol.</p>
<p>Everyone: relax.</p>
<p>KB the statement i made about leaving the country was intended to make humor of how ridiculous Vanquish's statement, "You are not a minority and thus u dont even know what u are talking about," was. I think you and I can agree, for once, that this statement is quite ridiculous.</p>
<p>Ok. Sorry about the insults but i am just frustrated that people are not reading my first post. i dont mean skim it. Read it. Think about it. I think that what i said really is a reflection of society today. If you think im wrong thats cool. I just got offended by the leave the country comment. Because it was not apparent that you were kidding. If i knew you better and knew thats not what u meant., I would not have reacted the way I did.</p>
<p>Hoedown, I am sure there are other reasons why URMs graduate at a lower rate than non-URMs. However, it is a fact that at all of Michigan's peer institutions, URMs graduate at a rate well over 80%. There is no excuse why Michigan's URMs cannot graduate at such a rate unless we are accepting URMs that are clearely incapable of handling the academic requirements of the university. </p>
<p>Dstark, Michigan's role is not to solve the inequalities of man. Michigan's repsonsibility is to its stakeholders...families who spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to give their kids the best education possible. That can only be accomplished if the university admits students of a certain calibre. I don't care what race, religion, nationality, sexual orientation they fall under. As long as they have the ability and the desire to contribute at the highest level, they are welcome. As it stands, Michigan is bringing in URMs at whatever the cost. This hurts the university and the URMs in question. It is pretty easy to distinguish the worthy URMs from the unworthy, but Michigan is ignoring that in favor of fudging the numbers.</p>
<p>dstark said
And we keep Hispanics as illegal immigrants because of the goodness of our hearts? If they were European whites, what do you think? Would they still be illegal?</p>
<p>In fact, European whites are also considered illegal immigrants if they come to this country without proper documentation. You dont hear about it simply because the number of europeans that come here illegaly are much, much less than the number of hispanics.</p>
<p>this is true but i very much doubt that it is as difficult for a European illegal immigrant to gain legal status as it is for a Hispanic illegal immigrant. DISCLAIMER: THIS IS STRICTLY MY OPINION.</p>
<p>Kamscnerd, you may be right, but it would not be because of race like dstark is assuming. It may be easier for a European to gain legal status due to his/her financial status. Illegal hispanics are here because they are looking for a better life and thus have no money when they come here. The illegal european had to have money in order to pay for the trip from Europe to here and thus with that money can easily get a visa or such.</p>
<p>vanquish u very much remind me of the white father character on the show Black.White. he utterly refuses to see racial discrimination though it frequently stares him right in the face when he is made up as a black man. his wife is white as well and when she is made up as a black woman and experiences discrimination it brings her to tears but her husband refuses to recognize its existence.</p>
<p>Alexandre, I think you are a little too worried about the US News rankings. I don't think the school is hurt if they give people a shot. People with different experiences can add a lot to a classroom and can enhance other students' education even if they are struggling academically. Plus, they may learn to become better students by learning from better students.</p>
<p>Kamscnerd, are you going to Michigan, applying to Michigan, or something else? I'm sorry if you mentioned this earlier.</p>
<p>dstark, I personally don't care about the USNWR rankings, although they do directly impact a university's ability to attract good students. In fact, of the 10 universities I was admitted into, Michigan was one of the lowest ranked in the USNWR. However, I don't think sub-standard intellects, regardless of background, add to the academic atmosphere of a university. An intellectually inferior student only weakens a classroom. I love diversity, but only if it is qualified. And by the way Dstark, a poor student isn't going to learn how to learn at Michigan. Michigan is way too tough to give inferior students the time to prosper.</p>
<p>I don't understand what's so difficult about my argument. All I am saying is that Michigan should admit students that are academically able to cope. Historically, Michigan has been right with 90% of its white and Asian students and only with 65% of its URM students. All I am saying is that Michigan should strive to improve its analysis of URM applicants to improve that embarrasingly low success rate.</p>
<p>I will admit racial discrimination does exist but I feel that we as a society need to move on and get over it. that is the only way it will stop. "We are what we choose to see" is a quote that is really pertinant. if minorities, including me, stop going into cituations looking for racism and expecting racism then they are better off. We need to ignore it and move on. We need to stop overanalysing everything for racism. </p>
<p>Some racism does exist but like i said before, the only way of getting over it is to work really hard and not rely on other programs like AA to raise you. You need to raise yourself. Racism is what we choose to make it.</p>
<p>You can be very smart and struggle in school.</p>
<p>"I don't understand what's so difficult about my argument."</p>
<p>I don't agree with your argument. I don't agree with the way you measure success.</p>
<p>Dstark, I do not have a limited way of measuring success. But success in the academic domain, as in all other domains, is relatively well defined. In this case, doing well in school and graduating. Like I said several times above, admitting students who cannot cope with the academic intensity of the school does not benefit anybody and yet, Michigan does it frequently.</p>
<p>Alexandre's arguement is at the core of what I was saying in my first post...diversity vs elitism. For Alexandre, UM's being an elite institution should come first...I'm not sure I don't agree with him there. I'm all for diversity, be we should be looking for it among academic equals. It can be done, we just have to work a lot harder at it.</p>
<p>
[quote]
However, it is a fact that at all of Michigan's peer institutions, URMs graduate at a rate well over 80%.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I guess you'd better be more specific. You say all, but I think our peer groups must differ. Which peers do you mean? UCLA and UCB, for example? You need to check those numbers.</p>
<p>I also challenge the assertion that 1/3 of the URMs are leaving because of inability to keep up with academic intensity. You know our aid policies--I strongly suspect they play a role.</p>
<p>I consider Cal, Cornell, Northwestern, Penn and UVa to be our closest peers.</p>