I'm worried about chemistry

College Majors Engineering Majors
1

<p>First of all, sorry for the extra thread, but I thought since it's a different question and topic, I should make a new thread. Second, I'm partially ranting, so it's a bit long. Bare with me, please!</p>

<p>*this post may be incoherent. hehe</p>

<p>Anyways, right now I'm another one of those unlucky individuals who does not know what to major in. I know that I interested in technology (computers, but I'm not a huge fan of hardware), and also engineering. As of right now, I think I would most likely enjoy CE (civil) or MechE. There may be a spark of interest in EE because right now, I'm taking (what my school calls) Intro to Algorithmic Problem Solving (basically intro to C++ but there are always the fancy names). Literally, all we are learning is how to code in C++. I've read on these forums that EE and CS cross over on some of the courses, and that many EE's can perform the same job as CS majors if they have the concentration for it. Why not get two in one, right?</p>

<p>Basically, an overview of my interests:</p>

<p>MechE
EE
CE
CS</p>

<p>The only problem is Chemistry. That damn Chemistry! I was looking at some schools that I might be interested in (NYC, so CCNY for financial situations; Cooper Union just to see their curriculum since I'm pretty sure my GPA - which is a 3.4 - won't make it into their school). I see that basically every engineering has chemistry 1 as a required course. I'm currently at Queens College looking to transfer out, but while I'm taking Chemistry here, I feel like I'm pulling away more and more each time I attend my chemistry class, whether it be lab, lecture, or recitation. Continuing on my rant, I just hate chemistry in general. Should I be pulling away from engineering altogether?</p>

<p>I tried physics at my school as well, but I don't think the professors are very good, and their manner of teaching makes me feel bitter towards physics. I ended up dropping the class and intended to take it another semester. I know I am being naive and stubborn, but I feel too dependent on the professor to teach me physics. I know it's possible, but learning physics on my own from a text book seems to be the undesired common response. During high school, although it's not at a high academic level, physics wasn't that hard overall when my teacher taught it. Maybe it was just my school/teacher (Francis Lewis High School, if any of you have heard of it), or maybe it's because of what I said: it's not at a high academic level.</p>

<p>It's sad because I don't know what I want to major in, I feel extremely hesitant towards the cores of engineering (physics, chemistry, and somewhat a little bit of math), but I still have an interest in the subject overall. However, I feel that this interest by itself will not be able to pull me through all the way, but this interest is greater than my interest for the other fields (especially greater than my interest for liberal arts).</p>

<p>I know I'm contradictory, but basically I think I'm not suited for the sciences such as chemistry or physics, unless I take it one course at a time (literally, only one course per semester or something like that). I'm expecting a lot of "you make your own future" and "your future depends on what you make of it," or "go to your professor's office hours" and "get tutoring." I know I have to do those things, and I have, but it's never enough time and my brain just doesn't click with chemistry (I'm not taking physics yet, only general chemistry 1 for now).</p>

<p>So finally, the same question is being asked again. Should I pull away from engineering because of my feelings towards chemistry?</p>

<p>I may have missed out some things, so ask!</p>

2

<p>The hard sciences are, well, hard. Yes, there are bad professors but, even with great professors, there is just a ton of work. There is a lot to memorize and a lot that you have to know how to do. There are great video lectures on Organic Chemistry (freshman course there) at Yale’s website and I do enjoy the video lectures that are about half history. You might enjoy the lectures but courses still entail a lot of work.</p>

<p>My son is taking chemistry I right now and he loves the subject but finds the classes mostly boring but that’s because he self-studied chem I and II out of a textbook a few years ago and then reviewed it this past August. He loves chemistry too. It helps if you’re interested in the material.</p>

<p>Realistically, a lot of professors are more interested in their research than in their teaching and that’s just something that you have to deal with. Your perception of the course, materail and professor is something that you can change as is your attitude towards physics, chemistry and math. It only gets harder and the pace of work accelerates from these early courses.</p>

3

<p>@BCEagle91</p>

<p>Thanks for the response.</p>

<p>I’m sure your son is quite the intellectual or just has a strong motivation towards chemistry, especially, as you said, since he loves it. MIT also has what they call “Open Courseware” on YouTube, which provides lectures of their classes to the general public for free.</p>

<p>Might I ask which text book your son self-studied from? I heard that the chemistry book from Oxtoby is good, but I will look at others as well.</p>

4

<p>I would probably just work until you can pass Physics and Chemistry and you figure out what you want to do.</p>

5

<ol>
<li>Chemistry is minor in engineering as long as chemistry isn’t intensively needed in the undergraduate engineering program, such as Computer Engineering, Computer Science. </li>
</ol>

<p>So hating chemistry doesn’t prevent you from becoming a good engineering student. In fact, a lot of engineering students never liked the introductory physics courses. They might liked certain topics but not the overall contents. In fact, I never liked thermodynamic from physics. The chemistry side is light in the sense that it’s very similar to what I had from high school chemistry. </p>

<p>Anyway. </p>

<p>BCEagle is right. Interest is important. But that should be the general studies. In another word, if you want to major in say, ME, then you should enjoy the general studies of ME. You might not like certain classes that you are required to take in ME. That’s fine. </p>

<p>People that hated programming would never go into the programming world because they hate it in general. </p>

<p>The other day my friend and I both felt that we had lost the momentum for engineering, and for our futures. As a computer engineering student, I always question the future of technology. Better computer? How should we re-engineer the computers? I have tons of questions and I figure that these questions doomed me. I don’t have any faith in better technology or better future. I don’t want to see computers running the society. The NJ railroad project takes 30+ years to complete. FiOS takes forever to deploy here in NYC. Cloud computing? What about computer-on-the-go-everywhere? DOOMED. </p>

<p>But I like the subject. I like being exposed to the theoretical and applied science. This is what kept me going. Moreover, I promised that I would not quit easily, again. </p>

<p>The problem is that you don’t really have time to change your mind all the time. In another words, soon or later you have to settle down a single major that you think you like.</p>

<p>There are engineering students that never went into the engineering industry, for various of reasons.</p>

<p>If you have hard time in chemistry, you should seek out all possible ways that might help you from failing. </p>

<p>I am not being a meanie, but you are now in college. You really need to think about how you can overcome this obstacles.</p>

6

<p>@ jwxie</p>

<p>Thanks for the lengthy response! I enjoy these (not sarcasm but rather quite serious).</p>

<p>I completely understand what you’re trying to say, but the thing is that I haven’t been exposed enough to the topics to say whether I enjoy the general material or not. My only experience of physics is from high school, and I’m sure that high school physics is barely applied to real life (depending on the school’s resources, people will have a varied range of knowledge). As for chemistry, let’s just say that I’ve never done well in it (seriously, below 70s). Nevertheless, I imagine that EE and MechE require a decent amount of chemistry, depending on which specialization I choose (which I haven’t decided on yet). The problem is instead of just not enjoying certain aspects or topics in chemistry, I pretty much dislike the entire subject in general (or at least the beginning classes which everyone must <em>dread</em> through) because I don’t see myself applying it, though I am 100% certain that it will be applicable later on (I just don’t know what). I think that is one of my reasons why I feel reluctant to taking the class. Oh well, life is life.</p>

<p>By the way, I just received my first exam’s grade, and I received a 79.4 out of 100. I’m pretty sure I’m going to end up with either a B- or a C in this class…</p>

<p>I am currently a sophomore (I believe you are too) and I’m in my first year (which makes me a lower sophomore). I have until the end of next semester to declare my major, and I’m still stuck with my decision because I’m not exposed enough to the fields. I’m just trying to learn as much as I can and read as much as I can about the topics that are interesting to me, but I feel like my interests are road-blocked by chemistry.</p>

7

<p>As far as CCNY goes, EE only takes one semester of Chemistry.
<a href=“http://www1.ccny.cuny.edu/prospective/gsoe/electrical/upload/EE0-Fall09-Spring10-Curriculum.pdf[/url]”>http://www1.ccny.cuny.edu/prospective/gsoe/electrical/upload/EE0-Fall09-Spring10-Curriculum.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>True that some components of chemistry will appear in undergraduate EE study again. But in general, EE sits with physics more than chemistry. In fact, I think it’s fair to call physics as the lead of physical science. We can branch of chemistry from physics, at a certain degree. It’s an endless debate whether chemistry is really physics, and what physics is about. That’s how I felt. The engineers and physics graduates may disagree with me.</p>

<p>Anyhow. </p>

<p>I can feel the stress right now.
As far as the introductory level goes: like I said a lot of people hate them. Do you see the purpose of calculus 1, 2, 3? I did a bit because I had a great professor for 1 and 3. Two was a bad experience -_- Anyway. I learned how the law makers in the government use calculus to do taxation. I learned a lot about vectors. </p>

<p>As of now, I am doing linear algebra and vector caclulus, which makes me out of the introductory level. I have to constantly applied 1,2,3 . At this stage I learned the truth of vectors and space. Why we need vectors. Why we need a vector field. In general you don’t always simple linear application. You have curves which you need to integrate to find the work, for example. Or you can have a plan and you want to find the electric field.
These applications that I learned from linear algebra and vector calculus are going to appear in the upper courses, such as in electromagnetism, or thermodynamic. </p>

<p>You might have bad teachers that didn’t lead you to the right direction to enjoy the coursework. Tell me what engage you. Any topic you found interesting in science, math, or even liberal art in general?</p>

<p>I feel exciting whenever I am learning something related to quantum world. At this stage I am in physics 2, and I am still in classical physics, but I read about a book called introduction to quantum theory, which has a very thorough discussion on quantum mechanics from the time of classical mechanics to quantum world. </p>

<p>Since I like the subject in general (that is computer and physics), I enjoy learning them. That’s really important.</p>

<p>If you are scared of chemistry. That’s fine. But you just have to pull over. Try your best to pass it. A lot of engineering students here at CCNY pulled themselves over physics 1 and 2. CCNY students consider physics 1 and 2 the most difficult courses to pass, because we have hard core professors teaching them, except one professor. </p>

<p>But seriously, what is the one thing that makes you heart beats (beside your crush!!!)? </p>

<p>:)</p>

8

<p>Have to agree with jxwie. Chemistry is rarely seen in EE majors. However, if you want to get into semiconductor devices, solid state electronics, or nanotechnology, it seems that knowledge of quantum mechanics is a must and some degree of chemistry is useful to have. Physics on the other hand is applicable almost everywhere whether it is electromagnetic fields, RF/antenna design or semiconductors. Math is also highly applicable, especially in signals and systems and power electronics.</p>

<p>My view would be to try to develop a physical intuition for the sciences. It is hard to develop but it is a tool that will help you along your career. Do more practice problems in the textbooks and sometimes try to give time to the concepts sink in completely. I take a while to internalize concepts (and to some extent convince myself intuitively or formally why they work as they do).</p>

9

<p>@jxwie</p>

<p>I had the same professor for Calculus 1 and 2, but now I am currently taking Calculus 3 with a professor who barely provides any theory behind the math, as to where my Calculus 1 and 2 professor provided at least minimal theory. That theory behind the math helped me understand it better. I’ve always <em>exceptionally</em> enjoyed math. I never saw the applications of it until Calculus 2 when my professor gave us plenty of examples where calculus was used, such as how do satellites remain orbiting the Earth, (I forget which but) heart doctors using it with their graphs and stuff, etc, Newton’s law of cooling (approximating about how long a deceased person has been dead), etc. I thought those were amusing applications, and I enjoyed it.</p>

<p>When I hear things about the upper level applications of both Chemistry and Physics, I like the sound of it. As you said, quantum mechanics, although I don’t exactly know what it is, sounds incredibly awesome (I remember reading an article/report about how scientists have figured out how to teleport tiny bits of data, or something like that, already). Chemistry sounds awesome too, but I’m not very knowledgeable in the chemistry applications. If anything, I guess I’d be sort of interested in food science or something.</p>

<p>Also, as a note, I’ve decided against EE and CS. I’ve decided to suck it up and stick with chemistry, and try pass it. It’s obviously the smarter choice, and I won’t be having any sleep, but I’m hoping it’ll be worth it in the end. Additionally, I think I want to go with Civil Engineering. Does anyone know if much, or if any at all, chemistry is involved in CE? I’m probably going to want up ENDING up doing structural, but I’d like to know which opportunities are available with a Bachelor’s in CE before I go to graduate school. I would prefer to work a little bit before I continue my education.</p>

<p>As for physics, I’m not really scared of it to the point where I’m terrified, but I’m rather a little bit intimidated by it because I know that physics is an extremely hard subject. As you said, your school’s professors are hardcore when it comes to physics, but I’m sure any physics professor is hardcore. I plan to take Physics 1 next semester, and I’m wondering if I should do that e-Permit thing and take it at CCNY or just stay at my school…or maybe go to Hunter to take it. If I do that e-Permit, Hunter and CCNY never have the names of the professors posted up on e-Sims until the actual semester starts. I hate that :(</p>

<p>As for what makes “my heart beat” in the sciences would probably just be the fact that I want to learn something that is useful. This might seem vague, but when I say useful, I’m not only saying useful for the world, U.S., and the economy, but rather for my own personal use as well. If a mechanical engineer has a broad knowledge of being able to work in the heat/cooling systems or whatever it is in the field, and also knows how to repair his own car and customize it to his liking, then I find that useful. He will be able to work and get a paycheck, he’ll be able to save loads of money on his car. Not to mention the fact that he’ll probably never need to call (at least in NYC) Con Edison about anything that deals with heating/cooling. He’ll probably be able to set up his own heating/cooling system if he has the resources. I find that sort of thing useful, and I want to learn something like that, though not specifically be the example I just gave.</p>

<p>I suppose I would find CE useful because, assuming I go into structural as my ultimate goal, I’ll be able to apply some things that I’ve learned to my own home. Also, of all the engineering fields, CE just seems more appealing…I guess because I enjoy the idea of architecture, although I would never major in that due to the extremely high competition and my lack of artistic skills :D</p>

<p>I know I’m not very knowledgeable in these fields that I’m interested in, and reading up on these fields doesn’t exactly give me a taste of what is there in that field. I’d like to know more about the actual work, and how each day progresses. Any CE’s here who could give a brief overview of how the work environment is…in terms that someone who isn’t in your field would understand :smiley: Maybe a time period of a quarter of a year to about one year. Also, I’m aware that there is at least one person on this forum that owns her own firm with her husband, if I’m correct. I think her username was mainelongehorn or something similar to that…my memory is foggy because I haven’t been on here recently. I suppose that she would have a different situation of her work day, but stories are always great to read.</p>

<p>Lastly, I’d like to know a bit about CE and the outlook for its field…I know people say to read the BLS but it’s always good to hear what other peoples’ opinions are, and especially from professionals personally instead of looking at job websites because the job websites are for the current standing, and I won’t be working until at least 2-3 years from now. I just wonder whether CE will still have plenty of projects needed to be completed as this economy is “recovering.” I remember reading a post that was posted about three years ago saying that there are so many projects that are being brought up and worked on at that moment that CE is a great field. How about maybe two to three years from now? and is the field completely dependent on projects? I would say that’s a bit risky then, wouldn’t it? Just like an architecture’s job is tough… I don’t know, maybe I’m out of my mind :)</p>

<p>@IndianPwnerDude</p>

<p>Yeah, I imagine that Physics is applicable nearly everywhere, and especially in all the engineering fields. But what exactly do you mean by “develop a physical intuition for the sciences?” Do you mean to sort of get an abstract sense of the sciences? I’ve always been bad at abstract theories that I had to go through in math, and I was better at the concrete stuff (lol a little bit ironic).</p>

<p>Text book problems are definitely a good way to study better, but because I’m struggling so much to just understand the concept of what is trying be taught, I can’t even move forward to try and solve the problems. Things just don’t click for me…and I don’t know if it’s because I’m supposed to have knowledge of chemistry already (there are no prerequisites to register for the course) or if it’s because it appears that chemistry is being taught backwards. I looked at MIT’s Open CourseWare and the lectures on general chemistry (they call it Principles of Chemical Science…I assume it’s the same thing) seem to be backwards. They talk about the discovery of the atom, waves, p-orbitals, Lewis structures, covalent and valence bonds, etc. all before they talk about acid-base reactions and redox, things like that. I’m not sure if that class is a general chemistry class or an intro to chemistry, biochemistry, and the other thing which I forget. The only thing is that I’m sure knowing all of those things before I study things such as the reactions, titration, acid-base solutions, etc. is essential, and I never learned the things I first stated. I basically jumped into the latter material.</p>

10

<p>Yes. I will leave the CE to the real CE students and graduates, like ken, and others, we have plenty of them here.</p>

<p>

This I can answered. My physics 1 professor told us that he knew a guy who setup his own heating and cooling system. So he didn’t pay extra bucks for heating up the water and the house. He didn’t use solar power plant at all. I just can’t remember what he did. But my professor certainly spoke about it when he was teaching thermodynamics. </p>

<p>Sure you can build those as long as you know how to do it. I read an article just yesterday about a Chinese peasant who built his own airplane, after 10 years of efforts. Some of the components are unique so he made them out of his own own hands.</p>

11

<p>Do you know if your physics 1 professor had a certain engineering degree? Or he just knew physics? lol</p>

12

<p>I doubt about it.
He’s very intelligent though. He has three jobs and he just loves teaching and solving problems I guess. Whenever I see him at the tutoring session, he’s always making problems on his own ROFL</p>

<p>Well if you are a good physicist, then you should be able to do the applied side, regardless. There are exceptions, such as theoretical physicists vs experimental physicists.</p>

13

<p>This why I’m sticking to physics and EE. 2 chemistry classes to obtain a decent knowledge base should be enough for industry jobs. </p>

<p>Chemistry is too difficult for me, as well.</p>

14

<p>

I will add mine to the FAQ in a little bit. I was a civil engineering major in college, but decided to work in construction management instead (which is related, but not quite the same).

The long term outlook is great. As long as the population keeps growing, there will be a need for infrastructure and buildings. These things don’t last forever and need to be replaced. If we stop building buildings and infrastructure, everything will fall into decay, and at that point there probably won’t be any good jobs anyway if the economy gets that bad.</p>

<p>As for the short-term outlook, it appears to be getting better, but I’m no economist. My company started on the construction of a 75 story residential skyscraper earlier this year, which is most definitely good news.</p>

<p>

The poor economy doesn’t eliminate projects; it just postpones them. The need is still there.</p>

<p>

I’m not sure what you mean by that.</p>

15

<p>Just remember 2 fundamental rules:</p>

<p>Every atom wants to fill its outer shell (usually 8).</p>

<p>Opposite charges attract, while same charges repel.</p>

16

<p>@jwxie</p>

<p>Thanks for the counseling if that’s I guess we could call it :D</p>

<p>@Enginox</p>

<p>I’m not exactly sure how much chemistry is involved in EE and CE, but I’m assuming that both of them don’t use a whole lot. Then again, I could be completely wrong :(</p>

<p>@ken285</p>

<p>For the last part, I was trying to ask about what happens if a company ends up not having a project for a certain period of time…O.o</p>

<p>@siobhandem</p>

<p>Are you talking about chemistry? Haha, the latter fact/rule is something everyone should know through experience, but I’m not sure what you mean by the first :smiley: Also, that won’t get me a nice grade in chemistry x)</p>

17

<p>

Then they’re in trouble. Companies usually have quite a few projects on their plates. When I was working for a traffic engineering consultant, I typically billed time to 3 or 4 projects in a week. If there isn’t enough work to go around, then that’s when there are layoffs (just like any other company).</p>

18

<p>Ah, I see. I’m going to PM you for a more info in detail, if you don’t mind :)</p>

<p>I would also like to hear from everyone else and their experiences :slight_smile: Either through college (both undergrad and grad, or if you went to get your ph.d. too) becoming a CE or your current status</p>

19

<p>Which concentration of civil engineering would you guys say uses the most and the least chemistry?</p>

20

<p>Environmental engineering uses some chemistry. None of the other fields really use it, unless if you’re dealing with corrosion perhaps.</p>