<p>kunfuzed101, what gave you right to decide what those people need?
Especially when they're bring posters "America, get out."
Try to remember that holier-than-thou attitude was start of holy wars and primarily whole inquisition was based on that principle.</p>
<p>What are you talking about? People in India aren't making "America, get out" posters.</p>
<p>Kunfuzed-</p>
<p>There are also "untouchables" in America and no one's doing anything about it.</p>
<p>What are the people in India called that claim they have special powers where they can curse or bless someone and come up to random people and demand money or threaten that they will curse you?</p>
<p>I was talking about Iraq. Generally, US thinks that it is an exemplar nation which should force everyone else on it's right way for their own good. How is that good?</p>
<p>Read this article in Wiki, it has info on abu ghraib prison
Here's the link:
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Ghraib_prison%5B/url%5D">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Ghraib_prison</a></p>
<p>pay particular attention to the caption of the picture</p>
<p>Excuse me, why are you blaming just the Muslim states?
Talk about slavery. Mention one country in Muslim world that ever upheld slavery.
There's so much discrimination in this country and in England.</p>
<p>Whenever I think of India, I think of malaria. Don't get me wrong--I have a lot of respect for Indians.
What ****es me off is that in your country, kids are sold for $8 as a slave, and you point fingers at others.
You talk about girls and lads being arranged in a marriage. Talk about the "untouchables", if an untouchable woman even touches a member of the other caste, they will whip her or beat her with whatever they can get their hands on, regardless of the gender.
There's so much poverty--I swear on this. One of my teacher's friend went to India, he threw the banana peel away and people fought over it(who's going to eat it).</p>
<p>I am astonished how this debate on Bush has turned into personal attacks on India. Nonetheless you all deserve an answer.
WARNING: LONG POST
[quote]
Shouldn't you have animosity towards countries that rape their own woman and force them into arranged marriages and intercourse without their consent? Are you not concerned with child labor laws, where 9yr. old Kerpal works day and night in a sweatshop factory, making little or no money and taken captive by the authority of his boss - and you're talking about human rights??? Are you not concerned that Aids is a growing epidemic in the country of India and that the govt. of India is doing little to help provide medical assistance to the people who need it most? From what I recall, India has not treated it's female majority with outright respect either.
[/quote]
As I always say, every truth about India has a opposite which is also true. There are untouchables who are beaten up, but there are also untouchable who are president. In Forbes 20, India is second only to US in numbers of Millionaires, but India does have half of world?s poor. India has several Silicon values but three Nigeria?s within it. </p>
<p>The cases you are mentioned are isolated cases, from which nothing can?t be inferred. If you want to gain a perspective on HR situation in India read reports by Congress, Amnesty International- Not perfect, but significantly better than other Asian countries and much better than Muslim states.</p>
<p>Scroll down to Human rights section on Pg 25 of this report by [url=<a href="http://lcweb2.loc.gov/frd/cs/profiles/India.pdf%5DCongress.%5B/url">http://lcweb2.loc.gov/frd/cs/profiles/India.pdf]Congress.[/url</a>]
<p>Emphasis mine
</p>
<p>Obviously there are problems, but then we try to end them. We don?t start a Jehad shouting ?Allah O Akbar? and trashing planes in other counties. </p>
<p>
[quote]
Yeah, what about the sati?
[/quote]
Sati was wrong. We stopped it 150 years ago. Period.
There was witch burning in Europe which was stopped after Renaissance, so was sati. And contrary to what you may think, Sati was only praticed in 3 states of India- Rajasthan, Bengal and Western Uttar Pradesh.
[quote]
What about the caste system in India, isn't that a form of discrimination?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Case system isn?t Wrong, Discrimination on the basis of Caste is wrong. That?s why we try to stop it. Untouchabilty was legally abolished 60 years ago. Almost Half seats(49.5%) in Parliament are reserved for untouchable/members of lower caste; half seats in Government jobs are reserved for untouchable/lower castes. 22.5% are reserved in college for untouchables. I would be spending next 5 years of my life in prison if I verbally abuse an untouchable. Contrast that with Muslim countries, where Women don?t even have the right to vote/stand in elections.</p>
<p>
[quote]
What are the people in India called that claim they have special powers where they can curse or bless someone and come up to random people and demand money or threaten that they will curse you?
[/quote]
Sorry. I live in India, but I haven?t heard of that.
[quote]
Whenever I think of India, I think of malaria. Don't get me wrong--I have a lot of respect for Indians.
What ****es me off is that in your country, kids are sold for $8 as a slave, and you point fingers at others.
You talk about girls and lads being arranged in a marriage. Talk about the "untouchables", if an untouchable woman even touches a member of the other caste, they will whip her or beat her with whatever they can get their hands on, regardless of the gender.
There's so much poverty--I swear on this. One of my teacher's friend went to India, he threw the banana peel away and people fought over it(who's going to eat it).
[/quote]
</p>
<p>There?s poverty. Unimaginable poverty. But things keep improving day by day. During the last 10 years 140 million people have moved out of Poverty. 140 million!</p>
<p>India has corrupt politician and in efficient bureaucracy. But it also has free press and impartial judiciary. Compare that with Muslim countries which have corrupt autocrats, cruel bureaucracy, partial judiciary and no freedom of expression. This makes all the difference.</p>
<p>Nonetheless, any knowledgeable person would laugh on your face if you try to compare HR situation in India with Muslim countries. Economically India can be compared to Africa, but when it comes of Democracy, liberty, Human Rights India could be compared to the west.</p>
<p>I seriously hate countries like Pakistan/Iran/Saudi Arabia which which officially sponsors terror. Everyone should. At least Indians don't kill people in other countries like Muslims.</p>
<p>Whoever said that Cheney would get three terms if Bush was impeached is completely off. First of all, Cheney has made it crystal clear that he is NOT interested in running for President.
[quote]
Since 2001, when asked if he is interested in the Republican presidential nomination, Cheney has said he wishes to retire to private life after his term as Vice President expires. In 2004, he reaffirmed this position strongly on Fox News Sunday, saying, "I will say just as hard as I possibly know how to say... 'If nominated, I will not run,' 'If elected, I will not serve,' or not only no, but 'Hell no,' I've got my plans laid out. I'm going to serve this president for the next four years, and then I'm out of here."</p>
[/quote]
</a></p>
<p>Anyways, no one would vote for him. As Bush's ~30% approval rating shows, the US hates this administration. And that remaining (less than) third of the population includes many of those who like Bush for his "charisma" (I don't understand this, but apparently some people find his Texas swagger and public displays of stupidity endearing) would certainly not support sour-faced Cheney. Ditto the Evangelical Christian bloc, as Cheney is decidedly not one of their faith, and let's not forget the <em>gasp</em> LESBIAN DAUGHTER! I don't know how many of you have seen Jesus Camp, but someone interviewed in that documentary (possibly Ted Haggard) makes the point that at 25% of the US population, the Christian Right is a crucial part of the electorate. Without their support, Cheney would get squat. A Cheney-as-a-record-holding-President (also false, FDR was in office for 12 years) scenario would never happen. </p>
<p>Now, even if Cheney did become President upon Bush's impeachment, so what? Personally, I would rather have a rational albeit sour old man than an arrogant fool. Cheney at least seems to have some understanding of how things should be done: he actually holds a bachelors and a masters in Political Science, as opposed to our current President, who majored in history (and was a self-described "average student at it) and got his graduate degree in business. He's been portrayed as scheming and even as the driving force behind Bush's policies, but I think it's Karl Rove we have to fear, not Cheney.</p>
<p>In any matter, the Constitution gives us power to impeach a President for the reasons of "treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors (Article II, Section 4)." Whether or not Bush's actions fall under any of those headings is debatable, although I personally I think there indeed grounds for his removal, as many other members have laid out on this board. But my point here is that impeaching Bush would have to be to punish him for his violations of the Constitution, and to insure that he cannot further abuse his powers-- political considerations such as who would take over are irrelevant, and if that's what's holding you back from pushing his impeachment then you aren't understanding the concept. Impeachment is a serious matter, not a political tool. Responding to another post on here, I doubt it would set a "precedent," since we've only had two presidents in our entire history impeached (also correcting someone else's post-- we've had Presidents impeached, just never had any removed from office, two seperate phases of the process).</p>
<p>I apologize for this rant, but I just wish they would impeach the damn fool already! No more excuses!</p>
<p>the nyu student needs to chill. He will fit right in at washington square park...smoking pot all day that is. Or maybe you belong at Harvard with all of the communists? Id recommend UCLA. They have a very liberal environment. I know.</p>
<p>Impeach Bush? Cmon guys!!! I know you are all extreme liberals/democrats, but dont you guys think that is just a bit extreme? </p>
<p>Bush certaintly didnt get blown in the oval office, he didnt block radical republicans from passing reconstruction, and he didnt rig an election by breaking into democratic headquarters. If he had, then I might support an impeachment. </p>
<p>I find it hard to believe that bush LIED on PURPOSE to the american public to get us into Iraq. I mean, why would he want to screw up his legacy?</p>
<p>I didnt read this entire thread. Just the thread title. And on a side note, I think that this cafe needs to be spiced up a bit. There have been no interesting threads in forever!</p>
<p>Um no....and incompetence SHOULD be grounds for removal from office. WE don't pay CEOs $400k to be incompetent, we don't pay our stockbrokers $400k to be incompetent, we don't pay our accountants $400k to be incompetent, and we don't pay our teachers $400k to be incompetent. I'm not paying the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES $400k to be incompetent.</p>
<p>Wow, I can't believe that abhi is advocating separating people based on their income. Oh, India doesn't have any military problems? Anybody remember India vs. Pakistan nuclear arms race? And you people are afraid of Iran who has neither the technology, nor any declared desire for nuclear weapons.</p>
<p>The caste is most definitely not an isolated case of inequality. It is all over India. I don't get how having a couple of rich people living it up makes up for that fact.</p>
<p>"where Women don?t even have the right to vote"</p>
<p>Seriously, don't talk about things you don't know. Only a few predominately Muslim countries have restricted women's suffrage, Brunei, Bhutan, Saudi Arabia, Lebanon, and UAE (until 2010).</p>
<p>Ironically, you keep claiming how Muslim countries are so backwards. Vatican City doesn't even have women's suffrage.</p>
<p>"I seriously hate countries like Pakistan/Iran/Saudi Arabia which which officially sponsors terror. Everyone should. At least Indians don't kill people in other countries like Muslims."</p>
<p>With India's grave opposition to Pakistan and refusal to be a part of the NNPT, India may end up killing people if WWIII rolls around.</p>
<p>"Furthermore, Hindu organizations have been accused of attacking religious minorities?particularly Muslims and Christians?and of receiving deferential treatment and even outright support from some political parties. Both international human rights organizations and India?s National Human Rights Commission have questioned the impartiality of police and judicial authorities in various locales."</p>
<p>This is from your own quote. Hmm...Muslims are the sole transgressors??!! I love how you only bolded the part to your benefit. If you were a real politician, then you wouldn't have included the rest of your quote. </p>
<p>So killing and harming people is alright until it leaves your own country?</p>
<p>"Ironically, you keep claiming how Muslim countries are so backwards. Vatican City doesn't even have women's suffrage."</p>
<p>Vatican City isn't even a decent comparison to a western democracy.</p>
<p>"With India's grave opposition to Pakistan and refusal to be a part of the NNPT, India may end up killing people if WWIII rolls around."</p>
<p>India is already killing people. The Hindi-Muslim 'strife' in that part of the world is just as dangerous as any other ethnic conflict.</p>
<p>"I seriously hate countries like Pakistan/Iran/Saudi Arabia which which officially sponsors terror. Everyone should. At least Indians don't kill people in other countries like Muslims."</p>
<p>I agree, kill whatever and whoever you want, just don't bother me.</p>
<p>And you people are afraid of Iran who has neither the technology, nor any declared desire for nuclear weapons.</p>
<p>Sentences don't start with 'and' and Ahmaimabastardjad has declared several times to enhance his existing nuclear program(might be ********) and with it, 'Wipe Israel off the map'. </p>
<p>Caste system in india .....(getting more equal.. look at IIT admissions.)
Burakumin ....... ?????????????</p>
<p>
[quote]
Wow, I can't believe that abhi is advocating separating people based on their income.
[/quote]
May I know when I said that?
[quote]
The caste is most definitely not an isolated case of inequality. It is all over India. I don't get how having a couple of rich people living it up makes up for that fact.
[/quote]
Do you know what caste means? Caste isn't based just on economic inequality. If it's then every country in this world has a caste system(:D)
[quote]
Oh, India doesn't have any military problems? Anybody remember India vs. Pakistan nuclear arms race? And you people are afraid of Iran who has neither the technology, nor any declared desire for nuclear weapons.
[/quote]
[quote]
With India's grave opposition to Pakistan and refusal to be a part of the NNPT, India may end up killing people if WWIII rolls around.
[/quote]
We are talking about HR situation. Where the hell does militarily problem comes into all this? </p>
<p>As a sovereign nation, India has a right to decide if it wants to sign or not. You can't choose 5 nations that'll have N-weapns and ask all other nations to give away their Weapons. With a autocratic state powered with Nuclear weapons just above our heads, you can't expect us to give away our N-weapons.</p>
<p>India has a no first use policy on a Nuclear Weapon state and of No nuclear use against a Non-Nuclear Weapon state. India's has a shining record of Non-Proliferation, that's why both Democrats and republicans have supported Indo-US Nuclear deal. Lastly, India and Pakistan have a no N-use agreement between them. Oh! It's NPT and not NNPT(:D)</p>
<p>
[quote]
This is from your own quote. Hmm...Muslims are the sole transgressors??!! I love how you only bolded the part to your benefit. If you were a real politician, then you wouldn't have included the rest of your quote.
[/quote]
Fine. If you would read my post, you'll notice that i said that HR situation is far from being perfect in India. Of course, there are Human right abuses in India, they are every where. But, HR situation is better in India then in the rest of Asia and much better than Muslim states. And whatever Hindus do, they do in their own country. They don't start a ****ing Jehad against other countries. Period
[quote]
Seriously, don't talk about things you don't know. Only a few predominately Muslim countries have restricted women's suffrage, Brunei, Bhutan, Saudi Arabia, Lebanon, and UAE (until 2010).
[/quote]
I could have died laughing after reading this. No matter how much you hate me, do you want me dead?</p>
<p>A 3rd grader would laugh on your face if you said that Bhutan is a Muslim country. lol. And you are telling me to don't talk about things that i don't know? What the ****.</p>
<p>That's why I say: Don't trust wiki(;))</p>
<p>Even if they can vote in other Muslim countries, constitution in most of these countries doesn't give women equal rights(And of course, In many Muslim countries there's no democracy, so how the hell can they vote(;))). Please search "Women's right in Middle East" to know more.</p>
<p>
[quote]
India is already killing people. The Hindi-Muslim 'strife' in that part of the world is just as dangerous as any other ethnic conflict.
[/quote]
True. But It's not a ethnic conflict, It's a religion conflict(ethnicities of Indians and Muslims are most of the time same, if you don't know that). But then India has a free judiciary which makes sure that justice</a> if given to the victim, irrespective of his/her religion.
[quote]
Caste system in india .....(getting more equal.. look at IIT admissions.)
Burakumin ....... ?????????????
[/quote]
This reminds me, IIT exam is just 2 weeks away, Yikes! </p>
<p>I am astonished how few people have tried to divert attention from a serious issue(on a silly thread) concerning Human right abuses to Human right abuses in India.</p>
<p>Dear kunfuzed101, austin, afruff23: Can you contest the validity of following statement (Please back your statement with reports from AI, HRW etc.):</p>
<p>Human Right situation in India is better than in most of Asia and much better than in Muslim states.</p>
<p>If you can't then I would assume that you take your previous ant-India assertions backs.</p>
<p>Your's truly
Abhi </p>
<p>(:D)(:D)(:D)(:D)(:D)(:D)(:D)(:D)(:D)(:D)(:D)</p>
<p>Vatican City doesn't have WOMEN.</p>
<p>I made a mistake about Bhutan. I thought it had a sizable Muslim population.</p>
<p>Caste exists in India. While economic divides form in any nation, India still manages to keep a sense of inferiority and separateness.</p>
<p>If you believe this nation to be so superior to everybody then why do they have an literacy rate of 61%?</p>
<p>Most Muslim nations have a higher literacy rate save a few African nations.</p>
<p>India also has many arranged marriages whereas from my observances many Muslim nations still give the suitor a choice as to who to marry.</p>
<p>Widows are treated badly by the husband's family in India.</p>
<p>Caste doesn't cause discrimination?:</p>
<p>Oh, look. India is helping people kill civilians in other countries:</p>
<p>Oh, child labor...</p>
<p>Concentration on males and higher caste people after Tsunami:</p>
<p>I could go on...</p>
<p>Don't try to divert away from my question.
[quote]
Dear kunfuzed101, austin, afruff23: Can you contest the validity of following statement (Please back your statement with reports from AI, HRW etc.):</p>
<p>Human Right situation in India is better than in most of Asia and much better than in Muslim states.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>You are again pin-pointing on isolated cases. Get the bigger picture! Can you prove that HR situation in India is worse than in Afghanistan, China, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Vietnam, Korea, Egypt, Indonesia, Algeria, Bahrain? If not, then back off.</p>
<p>India isn't great. But it's much better than Muslim countries in matter of Liberty. Democracy, HR abuses.[Not related to this, but the last time i asked people to name a Muslim country where democracy has flourished no one answered.(:D)]</p>
<p>
[quote]
So killing and harming people is alright until it leaves your own country?
[/quote]
I live in Democracy and not in an Islamic Tyranny. If my country does something wrong, then i'll protest against it.</p>
<p>UAE has much better conditions than India. Your original statement is wrong since that is not most of Asia. Here's a list of countries with better HR situations than India.</p>
<p>Armenia</p>
<p>Azerbaijan</p>
<p>Bahrain (yes, better than India)</p>
<p>Hong Kong</p>
<p>Indonesia</p>
<p>Israel</p>
<p>Japan</p>
<p>Jordan(maybe)</p>
<p>Kazakhstan</p>
<p>Korea, South</p>
<p>Laos (not sure)</p>
<p>Malaysia</p>
<p>Maldives</p>
<p>Mongolia (not sure)</p>
<p>Nepal (not sure)</p>
<p>Philippines</p>
<p>Russia</p>
<p>Singapore</p>
<p>Tajikistan (not sure)</p>
<p>Thailand</p>
<p>Turkey</p>
<p>Turkmenistan (not sure)</p>
<p>United Arab Emirates</p>
<p>Uzbekistan (not sure)</p>
<p>PS: Algeria is not part of Asia. and Egypt is usually considered to be in Africa.</p>
<p>Is Hong Kong a country?</p>
<p>It's autonomous. I think that's enough. It's not a country in the traditional sense though. It's a gray area.</p>