<p>A couple of days ago my parents and I engaged in a slightly heated discussion on the importance of a diverse campus as opposed to the academic reputation of the school. I was recently accepted to an academically reputable school, but it is very homogeneous and I told my parents that I wasn't interested in attending because of its paucity of diversity. My parents said that I should care more about the academics than the racial and ethnic makeup...... so I wanted to know from other parents how much diversity mattered in their or their child's selection of a school and if I'm overreacting.</p>
<p>Diversity matters to my daughter too. She is slowly coming to grips with the idea that the schools which seem like the best fit for her academically are not as diverse as she would like. Instead, she is focusing on how much interaction there are between various ethnic and racial groups on campus, rather just on the numbers. I understand where you are coming from but sometimes you can't have perfection.</p>
<p>First, a comment on your post is in order. This should not be an either/or choice. There are many diverse colleges with excellently prepared student body and many homogeneous colleges with a an inferiorly prepared student body. That may not be your case if the college with the most homogeneous student body was also the one with the best prepared admittees. I'm glad I got that off my chest.</p>
<p>Now on to your question. Let me state upfront that I do not object to affirmative action in college admissions. I think it is good for the college and good for society. Now on to generalizations and personal observations. I think minorites bring an important point of view into classroom and informal discussions. Many non-minority students, particularly those from the upper middle class, may have been underexposed to these viewpoints. However I have observed that many of those students are not fully integrated into the life of the college, particularly in the freshman year. And the reason in most cases individual preference, self-segregation if you will. I think it is understandable, particularly for minorities coming from underpriviledged backgrounds.</p>
<p>I personally had only one close minority friend in colllege but he exposed me to things I would not have experienced otherwise. A few examples. We signed up for tutoring in an inner city elementary school. We helped in the production of an inner city HS variety show. It was very rewarding for both of us.</p>
<p>As someone who was the only non-white in my elementary school for my first six grades (practically everyone was first-generation American, so we had something in common), I would encourage folks to remember that diversity is more than skin-deep. Diversity can apply to opinions, sex, sexual preference, geographic roots, religion, etc. My D was adamant about applying to LACs that had a diverse population versus universities. Her philosophy was that a diverse LAC would be just as intellectually stimulating (given the diversity) as a university if not more so (if the university were not as diverse). Plus, with fewer students on campus, she could have deeper friendships with a greater percentage of the enrollment and learn from them through informal interactions. My S (now a college sr.) has attended a diverse university; however, there is less diversity in his major department, so he has to go through other channels.</p>
<p>I agree with Charlesives' first comment. My father-in-law, a retired educator, and I had this very same discussion a while back. He took your parents' viewpoint, and I took yours. I realized that he valued a school's reputations, i.e., name recognition, over diversity but that if both were equal, he agreed that that would be the best of both worlds. (It took some time convincing him of this, though.) As Carolyn said, we don't live in a perfect world and groups may self-segregate on campus, so we have to compromise. What's most important, given all the factors, is whether a school is right for you.</p>
<p>I think economic diversity and a reasonable % of foriegn students are also important. The majority of learning in college is non-classroom based, and experiencing different viewpoints is important. </p>
<p>Example: When the Shah fell in 1979, there were two Iranian girls on my hall who could never again return home. Without knowing them, my understanding of this world event would not have been as deep nor as immediate. Versions of that experience-- a personal connection to a larger event-- happened continually throughout 4 years.</p>
<p>As has already been pointed out, there are diverse types of diversity.You get a better education if you learn with people who are not all from the same background as you are. But if your best academic choice is relatively homogeneous, you could compensate with a Junior Year Abroad or Summer Internships in more diverse communities.</p>
<p>we live in a city. My daughter chose to attend college in a city. No the school isn't in East LA but still a diverse community.
She spent a year before college working with homeless elementary students, and inner city teens before high school. While her college is fairly homogeneous in appearance beneath the surface you find more diversity.
her school gives financial aid to international students, and while there are students with trust funds there are first generation students whose parents barely speak english.There are catholic students from rural idaho, jewish students whose parents are academics at Uchicago, students whose parents are traveling musicians, students who are republician, students who are transgendered, students who are atheists and students who want to be priests, I think they even have a few students from Texas how much more diverse can you get?</p>
<p>Seems to me there isn't enough information here. Which is more important? Depends on what you are talking about. </p>
<p>Which is more important for helping you get into grad/professional school?
Which is more important for helping you develop into a thinking human being?
Which is more important for landing you a job in a Wall Street investment banking firm?
Which is more important for landing you any job in general?
Which is more important for preparing you live in a diverse society?
Which is more important for developing key friends and important contacts?
Which is more important for helping you get into the top country/golf club?
Which is more important for developing you into a future leader?</p>
<p>The answers to some of the questions could vary depending on who you are and where you want to go in life.</p>
<p>cour, I do not think that any of the questions you cite are necessarily and either/or proposition. Wall Street investment banking firms are loaded with folks from the Harvards of our higher education system. However all of these schools have quite diverst student bodies-URM's, internationals, geographic diversity, wide range of talents, etc.</p>
<p>I have to laugh about the country club question. Now thats certainly a criterion I should have considered, though I have played Pine Valley!!</p>
<p>And 100's of colleges will fill the bill for any of the questions you cited, even Washington and Lee which suffers from a southern white frat boy image. I don't know that its deserving but that is the characterization thrown around here.</p>
<p>..the only ones he considered were diverse ones. Of course they have to offer other criteria as well (strong engineering, etc). But last year right at the beginning he ruled out many schools because they were not diverse enough.</p>
<p>Son has had the chance in the past to meet and live with other kids from other cultures and learn their languages and customs. He's very interested in it all, almost as much as engineering.</p>
<p>I guess it sort of depends on the individual. If you are the type of person who relates more with people of color (be they black, asian, hispanic, etc.) than you do with white people, or (more importantly) you ARE a person of color, then having a large minority presence will be very beneficial in a variety of ways. I think when people think about Affirmative Action, Diversity, and "Critical Mass" on campus they fail to realize that having more then a handful of token minorities is more than just assuring a certain level of "comfort." At least, its not just because minority students need other minorities to hang out with... well, actually, it is, but its so much deeper than that. </p>
<p>I currently attend a University with very little diversity and very little interaction between races. Most of my white classmates have come to college with the idea that it will be the best time of their lives. There will be lots of parties they can attend, lots of dating to do, and tons of people to meet that are willing to meet them. And this generally is the way things go for them.</p>
<p>For many minority students (and in this case, I'll use black students as an example, since I'm priveledged enough to be one) at universities such as mine, this isn't the expectation, and it isn't the way things pan out either. There are plenty of parties, but most of them (in my view anyway) are of the "stand around, get drunk, and have some shallow conversation ::because I'm really trying to get laid::" variety. I know that for most black people, thats just NOT fun. Parties may include alcohol, but the staple for parties is generally a good selection of music and ample room for dancing. I personally don't like the fact that many people at my school have to be drunk to feel comfortable dancing. </p>
<p>Dating? Meh. My school's black population is dismal, and I fear that by the end of my stay here, the only guys left will be ones all my friends have already dated. Not really that exciting. Interracial dating is an option... but I'd rather not date guys who don't really care about the issues that affect me most. I've dated (by accident) racist/insensitive white guys before. Trust me, it's not exactly the way you want a relationship to end. </p>
<p>So, that's my stint on the first type of person. The second type of person would be the average caucasian Joe or Jane who would like to experience a diversity of people/cultures/ideas through osmosis. The person who hopes that they will meet all sorts of people simply because there are a lot more minorities/others on campus or because its more "acceptable" to associate with the minorities/others on campus. This person won't really be affected either way... that is, it doesn't matter if they attend a diverse school or not. To these people I would say this:</p>
<p>If you really want to be exposed to diversity, there are many ways to go about doing so even at a school such as mine. My school has various organizations (Asian Awareness groups, Black student unions, African groups, Latino/Hispanic groups, GLBTG orgs, etc.) that anyone is welcome to attend. I'm not saying you should go out and seek any black/asian/latino/etc. person you can find ot be friends with regardless of how well you get along... I am saying that if you truly care about diversity, you should go out and be active in communities that aren't predominantly white. I guarantee you that people will welcome you with open arms because you have actually taken the time out to get to know, understand, and apprecitate their cultures. Don't always think that being at a school that isn't very diverse means you have no opportunities at all to get to know people different from you. </p>
<p>You can go to your highly reputed school and still experience diversity.</p>
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<blockquote> <p>cour, I do not think that any of the questions you cite are necessarily and either/or proposition.<<</p> </blockquote>
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<p>Oh, I agree. Which is another reason why the original question is incomplete, since it implies sacrificing academic strength for diversity and vice versa.</p>
<p>A lot of different schools can get you to the same place in life, so whether diversity or academic reputation is more important depends on how one defines "important". More important for what?</p>
<p>Diversity is everywhere . I cannot imagine a community or a school which is not diverse. It would be a great shock for my kids to attend a school or live in an area that is not diverse.</p>
<p>This is an interesting topic. Los Angeles as a city is the epitome of diversity. Even with outreach efforts at our children's private schools, Asians & Hispanics make up only 2% (at best!) of the total student population. D1 left CA to find 10%+ Asians on her college campus. ;)</p>
<p>I agree that diversity at its best goes beyond ethnicity. D1 has already grown as a person by being expose to geographic, cultural, and socioeconomic differences this past semester. The total college experience includes an academic as well as a social education.</p>
<p>If you want diversity why don't you try talking to the folks who clean your dormitory bathrooms and sling your hash. Better yet why don't you take a summer job as a dishwasher or a hash slinger instead of being Lady Bountiful and tutoring "inner city kids". I am not saying there is anything wrong with tutoring but backhandgrip is right that there is diversity everywhere. If you want to know how the other half live and think and cope with their lives then go walk in their shoes with them. You will be exposed to a different point of view, both the good and the bad of it. Spend a little time in an environment where "you" provide the diversity.</p>
<p>Vicks ... if it is important to YOU then it is very important.</p>
<p>My son felt diversity was an important factor, but elected to go to a private east coast LAC which was relatively homogenous. And basically what he learned in 2 years there was that he didn't fit. He did make a few very good friends - not surprisingly, with some of the only minority students there - but in general, the lack of diversity was a major contributing factor to his decision not to return after 2 years.</p>
<p>We are not a racial minority, so that isn't the basis for my son's feelings ... its just that after living in a diverse area and coming through a racially and socio-economically diverse high school, it just seemed disconcerting for my son to be in a place that was so homogenous. He wasn't unhappy... he just didn't feel that he fit in. </p>
<p>I really felt that one of the greatest values of my UC education was the diversity of the student body, for many reasons. So I do think it is something that should be considered.</p>
<p>My children have attended diverse schools and value it both within the classroom context and outside classes. There are indeed different kinds of diversity, some overlap with others. It is important for students from an urban or suburban background to be exposed to the experiences of students from a more rural one; for students from the northeast to better understand the perspective of students from Wyoming or Texas (and vice-versa); for Americans to understand the experiences and perspectives of students from other countries; for young men to understand what it means to be a woman in our society; for wealthier students to understand the struggles of students on scholarship; for people of one religion to learn about and respect their classmates' religious practices and beliefs, etc... All these diverse experiences and perspectives can only enrich the college experience in class or without it. I once heard a young man from NYC talk about the countryside as an idyllic place, as if the whole countryside was a giant vacation place. I also met a young man from the Appalachia whose neighbors had never heard of Harvard. They'd heard of Princeton, but apparently, to them it meant a town nearby, not the university. I don't think the two young men ever met, but I'm sure if they had, they would have learned a great deal from each other.</p>
<p>You described your child's city school this way:</p>
<p>"while there are students with trust funds there are first generation students whose parents barely speak english.There are catholic students from rural idaho, jewish students whose parents are academics at Uchicago, students whose parents are traveling musicians, students who are republician, students who are transgendered, students who are atheists and students who want to be priests, I think they even have a few students from Texas how much more diverse can you get?"</p>
<p>This PERFECTLY describes several eastern LACs I know of! Although the numbers of such students won't be as high in a school where each class is only 400-700 kids, the diversity is still there. You don't have to go to a city school!</p>
<p>
[quote]
If you want diversity why don't you try talking to the folks who clean your dormitory bathrooms and sling your hash. Better yet why don't you take a summer job as a dishwasher or a hash slinger instead of being Lady Bountiful and tutoring "inner city kids". I am not saying there is anything wrong with tutoring but backhandgrip is right that there is diversity everywhere. If you want to know how the other half live and think and cope with their lives then go walk in their shoes with them. You will be exposed to a different point of view, both the good and the bad of it. Spend a little time in an environment where "you" provide the diversity
[/quote]
</p>
<p>not sure if this was directed at my comment, but since my daughter had tutored"inner city kids" as I posted above, I am responding.
Actually my daughter "is" providing the diversity, she is from a different background than people where she attended K-12 school ( generally), she is from a different background than several people at her college as well.
I am not sure what you are referring to, but I don't consider people who do maintenance and people who work in food service to be of a different class than we are. I can't speak for others, but as Pogo said" we are them".The person who did housekeeping at my daughters school, I got to know when her sister and I visited. We took the train down and since we couldn't afford to rent a car, the housekeeper loaned me hers ( I did not ask, she pressed it on me) I don't think she considers herself a different class than the kids at the school, why would she? She is like a housemother to them, not their servant.
No we are not homeless, we do not live under a bridge with our children because if we lived in the shelter we couldn't do drugs. We also don't sell our childrens prescription medications so that we can purchase the above mentioned drugs, as a family that my daughter worked with did. But I have been on food stamps, we have used the food bank when we were absolutely forced to, and while we try and donate time and money to local organizations every week ( like my younger daughters inner city high school), I would hardly call myself "Lady Bountiful", nice hat though ;)
She didn't take a summer job tutoring, she spent the year after high school volunteering with Americorps ( summers she needs to earn money) fulltime 40 + hours a week. I wish that this administration would fully fund the volunteer programs that they advocated 4 years ago. I think everyone should spend at least 2 years doing community service- especially if they then get a an education voucher. This is going to be needed more than ever since they cut back Pell grants, instead of joining the militaty to get money for college, lower(all income) income kids could do community service for their national committment.</p>
<p>
[quote]
This PERFECTLY describes several eastern LACs I know of! Although the numbers of such students won't be as high in a school where each class is only 400-700 kids, the diversity is still there. You don't have to go to a city school!
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<p>Oh I realize, I mentioned the city, because "sometimes" cities are more diverse than rural or suburban areas, although college towns sometimes attract a more diverse population anyway. I also believe that colleges that attract a national and even international student body have a fairly diverse population. afterall they are choosing what their student body looks like, and it is a lot more interesting by being as diverse as they can make it.
My daughters school isn't very diverse going by skin color, while they are certainly a national college, they don't pay attention to US news ranking, and some of their curriculum- ( lots of dead Greek and Roman guys) turns some minorities off. they also have very small class sizes- the whole school is under 1,500, one reason its nice to be located in a city, you can get size elsewhere :)</p>