Strong EC’s to match strong scores may be normal in the BS world but there are several day schools that are more focused on academics that the kids really do not have that strong of EC’s
I dont know: there are many applicants who post here with top GPA and SSAT and their ECs list is long and …somewhat mundane.
@CLNMOM, Yes, that is what he means.
ECs such as sports, an instrument, meaningful volunteer work, extra classes beyond the school, or, as in the case of most applicants to the top schools, ALL of the above, show that the students can handle it all! In the top group of BSs, they have to do it all. It is required to do a sport or meaningful activity, like theatre, every term. Only exceptions are those upper classmen who have taken on extra courses. And most of them do not request the exception…
As far as getting good grades, my DD’s advisor told me that almost all of her wards had straight As throughout middle school. So, most of her efforts are helping the freshmen ease through the pain of getting Bs for their first time!
My experience with parents who only brag about EC accomplishments are usually not so proud of the academic ones…especially in the sports-oriented town where I live. Many parents at the public schools here put more emphasis on sports than grades, thinking that is the best way to get into a good college. My DD was an anomaly because she was very good at sports AND a stellar student with interesting ECs, etc. That is why she attends BS as a day student and is not at the public school.
So, yes, both SSAT and grades are important, as are meaningful ECs. Meaningful to YOUR child, that is, as it demonstrates a passion or character trait.
You only have to wait a few more weeks, so relax and let the chips fall where they may. Best of luck.
@CLNMOM: Some kids just don’t do well on standardized tests. After her first SSAT try, I had a tutor work with DD to on test prep to try to improve her score. It was a bad idea – the result was a substantially LOWER score, and much higher anxiety, on the second try. DD felt that there was ''so much at stake" with this one test. It is the one regret I have about the application process, and I wish I hadn’t had her take it a second time. Her grades at BS have been solid and she also did very well on the PSAT and her first ACT – so, clearly, her confidence level with these kinds of tests has increased. Parents, please don’t assume that a low SSAT score is necessarily an accurate indicator of your child’s academic ability, or an accurate predictor of their future test scores. Again, kids are more than just their stats. Yes, low scores will cause some schools to say “No”… but other fine schools will look beyond those numbers.
I’m so glad I ignored (or didn’t see) the SSAT-related posts on CC back when we were in the application process… or I might have doubted her ability to gain admission anywhere! As it turns out, she’s done just fine. : )
“And if a student’s scores are high but grades are low, it’s not always because the student is lazy or not motivated in school. Sometimes, it has to do with bad teacher fit …”
I could see this happening in a given class, maybe two but one or 2 Bs over several years does not make a bad GPA. A pattern of lackluster grades, especially in a school that is in the vast majority of cases less rigorous than what will be encountered at the top boarding schools, strikes me as more a case of lack of effort and/or maturity rather than a bad teacher(s) fit. I often see parents blame poor grades on their child being “bored”. I don’t think boarding schools look kindly on that type of student. A critical component of the application is the teacher recommendations. In my opinion, it is a very critical component.
We have the opposite problem. My 7th grade son took the SSAT in January and got an 86 overall. His ERB scores are mostly in the 99th percentile. His grades, however, aren’t great. In 6th grade, he got 2 A’s, 2C’s, and the rest B’s. I thought he was lazy. I knew he was unorganized. His science teacher figured out that he had no real idea how to study or how to take tests that were something besides multiple choice. His science teacher and the school counselor taught him how to study for tests better. He and I have worked on his organizational skills. We tried a few different types of planners, but we finally ended up making our own. This has helped a lot. The first trimester of 7th grade, he had 2 A’s and the rest B’s. This trimester looks like he’ll get at least 3 A’s. He goes to a gifted school requires a 95% for an A, and they don’t offer any weighting on grades, so that makes it harder to get those A’s. As he’s maturing and getting help with his executive functioning skills, his grades are going up. His teachers told me at conferences they see a huge difference in his work.
My hope is that boarding schools will see the progression. We need over 50% FA. My son’s ECs are good, but not exceptional and he has no hook. He’s interested in schools such as Tabor, NMH, Peddie, St. Andrews, St. Marks, Lawrenceville, Westtown, Blair, etc.
@PossiblePrepMom Your son’s story is a good one. The progression, the increased maturity, the willingness to work with teachers and other adults at school to pinpoint and work on the issue. This last thing - working with teachers - is key because 1) his current teachers are bound to write him a good recommendation and will likely comment on his improvement and the reasons for it and 2) boarding schools want kids who aren’t afraid to reach out and get help. Boarding school is a step up for most kids, both academically and in other ways. The boarding schools don’t expect kids to be perfect and know there are likely to be some bumps in the road. The students who survive these bumps best are the ones who acknowledge they need help and seek it out. Wishing you a good outcome on March 10th!
I admit that my knowledge is limited to S.F. Bay Area in California. In this area, most parents of academically top (~99%) students in decent public schools understand importance of EC very well, and heavily focus on their kids having right (meaningful to the student’s story) EC, either in school or using outside private help.
Those students are often well supported, smart, and hardworking, and take a good care of their EC, and even try to build a psudo-hook or hook if chances and time commitment permit.
You can easily pay to be a coauthor of a peer-reviewed scientific journal. Or just make an idea and have a Ph.D to collect data and build a backup logic for your project. There was a art portfolio teacher that my daughter went to for two weeks in a Winter break. The most self-esteem damaging lessons ever! The teacher touched the work and made it look professional. We discarded it. But saw other college-bound students getting heavy help on touch up or ideas on idea focused piece.
The parents seldom boast about the children’s academics. Those who need to know already know it. Otherwise it feels embarrassing to do so or can hurt feelings of the listeners, unless they know that the listeners’ children are just as good.
I agree with @doschicos. Teacher recommendations not only help with admission, but are vital when it comes time to put students on the Honors track. Many high GPA, high SSAT students did not get on that track because of the middle school teachers’ recs. This is what I have been told at the school where DD attends. (happily, not an issue for DD.)
So, a student who blames grades on “boredom” would definitely not get a great recommendation…
Thank you @doschicos and @mexusa. My son isn’t applying until next year, so hopefully he will continue to do well this year and next year in 8th grade. There are so many awesome schools out there. This is all very exciting and yet terrifying.
Years ago we attended an open house at a leading boarding school. The director at that time summed up the relative importance of GPA vs. test scores as:
High GPA & high scores: you might be accepted
High GPA & mediocre scores: you might be accepted
Mediocre GPA & high scores: you will not be accepted
Thus, the relationship between the GPA and the test scores is important. Your current school’s reputation is important too. The schools would rather see a hardworking student with a good attitude, doing well in his courses, than a bright student who slacks off.
I know that will seem unfair to parents of students who are disengaged and turned off by unchallenging assignments. Nevertheless, grades and the teacher’s recommendation are more important than test scores.
Also, people throw around the word “hooks” too easily on CC. Hooks are rarer than you would think. Being a good student with an area of interest is not a hook. Being a good athlete is not a hook–being an “impact” athlete might be, if the school offers that sport. Parents who drive a Porsche–not a hook. Parents who could give a dorm–hook. Legacy can be a hook, but these schools turn down many legacies every year; look at previous results threads for more evidence.
Thanks, mexusa - I understand SculptorDad’s comments now, as well as the others. Being new to the BS world and living in a small town where most people have never even heard of boarding school, I’m just trying to understand how the BS world of parents and students think about grades, test scores and ECs as I’m sure these are also all very important for college admissions process as well.
My understanding is that legacy are often given a chance to be a hook or help, depends on how strong the ties the parents have maintained will would start making by getting involved in school event and donating their time and talent, or… of course, money.
“You can easily pay to be a coauthor of a peer-reviewed scientific journal. Or just make an idea and have a Ph.D to collect data and build a backup logic for your project.”
Hopefully, you are talking about kids applying to college not boarding school. Admissions Officers see 13,14,15 year olds as part of their job constantly. They are often able to suss out the real thing vs a kid who has been scripted or coached.
ECs are important and being a violin virtuoso, for example, is a huge plus but not a requirement. These schools are smaller than most public schools. Absent Exeter and Andover, most are much, much smaller yet they offer so much more - more sports options, more performing arts options, plus things like debate, MUN, etc. A well rounded kid with the academic chops needed who can contribute in various nonacademic areas will be looked at favorably. The more boxes your child can check off the better. Good grades and test scores - check. Can contribute to the soccer and tennis teams - check. Can play in the orchestra and band - check. A proven student leader - check. Name your kids activity that has a boarding school corollary - check. More checks can help increase your chances. This isn’t college with thousands of students where they can build a class from pointy students. They need well rounded students in addition to the kid who will be first chair in the orchestra. Active current engagement in multiple ECs indicates a student who is willing to try new things and who will be engaged in their new boarding school community. Schools with 300-600 students need kids who are going to dabble in multiple areas. There will be activities and sports where very few students have prior exposure. The crew team, for example, depends on first timers trying out to build the boats for future years. They need the type of kids who come across as the type who are willing to go try something they’ve never done before. They need doers.
great post doschicos! yet slightly intimidating also (smile).
@doschicos, I am sorry that I was indeed mixed up and was talking about college applicants.
I think it is more common for middle school students to be lack of EC but still have stellar academics.
Periwinkle, thank you for sharing this information. I like your comment about hooks being used too easily nowadays. But yet, I saw a post somewhere on CC with a link to an Exeter page where they introduced some of the students of the incoming class. It was an amazing list of extremely accomplished students who each had an amazing hook … it was sobering to read.
The whole learning BS and submitting application process have been very sobering!
Based on years of private school applications and attendance and having intimate knowledge of admissions at certain schools many of you are placing far too much importance on certain things and dismissing others. Teachers recs? How many kids and parents on here disclose perfect Recs? Many private schools endeavoring to get their kids into Elite boarding schools are hardly unbiased. A 4.0 and a 1900 won’t get you into Harvard and like numbers won’t get you into Exeter. Grade inflation and lack of verifiable consistency between candidates schools makes grades a very nuanced and subjective component. SSAT, SAT and ACT are objective. Period. Periwinkle is right activities are not hooks. Clubs are not hooks. Playing a sport is not a hook. Being a contributing varsity player on day 1 is a hook. Being a published author or a highly decorated musician is a hook. Being super rich or a legacy is a hook.
I think two of the largest unknowns in any of the applications that most posters do not seem to acknowledge are 1. The child/parent interview and 2. The teacher ref’s
- I have read many posts where the interviewee said it went great. I can't count how many job interviews I misread how good or bad I did. I have to believe most teenagers don't have the foggiest how they did.
- Second the teacher's reference as Center points out. Again I read how the candidate/parent thinks that the ref's were "stellar" -- how do you know?
Here is one anecdote, My son was at a private day school and one of the parents tried to switch her child from our school into a very exclusive day school. She was also the head of the parent group. And yet the teacher of her child held a grudge that she was leaving and gave a bad reference. She only knew it because she initiated legal action and obtained a copy of the reference.