Importance of prestige for undergrad business

<p>taxguy, it’s not overrated. I NEVER HAD a problem getting a job myself. Trust me on this, I have a 3.6+ at a decently ranked school. I worked Big 4, blah blah I have a good job right now. I’m in a great position in my life at 24, but i could be in a x10 better position with better prestige. The better and more prestigious job you have directly out of school will determine your long term potential come Top 5 MBA admissions and the image your resume portrays. Anyone can work back office at Wall Street. Not everyone can be in the front. All prestige baby, goto the best and have less worries in the future. 100K? That’s nothing. I’m 24 with no debt and I got 50k liquid cash. Would have more if I went to a better school, paid a decent amount for my decently ranked private school.</p>

<p>Dawgie, I was offered a front office job and not a back office job. </p>

<p>Also, I don’t know if you went to a prestigious school, but I didn’t. Moreover, It never hurt me regarding any top notch job, whether it be with a top accounting firm or with a wall street firm. If you went to a prestigious school, you don’t have anything to compare this too. If you didn’t then you obviously did well despite the cache of the school.</p>

<p>$20-$30 an hour? That’d be over 25k a summer. I don’t think anyone is paying that.</p>

<p>take Michigan dude, I’m on a similar full ride at my state school which is ranked higher than Alabama. I got into Ross from high school and listened to all the same arguments. Now I’m going to have to apply there as a transfer. The opportunities just aren’t here if you are interested in finance.</p>

<p>$20-30 is not abnormal for a Summer Internship in Finance. Even when I worked with a regulator one summer a few years ago they paid $20/hr. If you work for a BB, gross comp for the summer is around 17k (pro-rated 60k), maybe next summer they will be using prorated 70k.</p>

<p>I’ve worked like 2-3 internships paying 20+ in Accounting. Definitely not a stretch.</p>

<p>So if I do pretty well at Ross (around top 10%), it’s realistic ro expect to make 15k in one summer? Is this usually just between junior and senior year? Or can you make good money in between sophomore and junior year?</p>

<p>Do they give you extra for a place to rent? I probably won’t have a car. Would I need one?</p>

<p>You’re thinking too much and too far ahead. And too much of your arguments are based on assumptions. </p>

<p>Michigan will give you a better edge in the job market…but it will still come down to you to get the job. Just work your ass off in Michigan, and you will probably secure a good job. Don’t ask what your pay is going to be like for internships…you should be happy to get one. Michigan will be more helpful in getting the internship you want. You would need to go out and seek those lucrative employers on your own at a second tier business school, like Alabama.</p>

<p>I am stunned by everyone telling me “just be in the top 10% of Michigan, and you will get a top job offer and/or internship.”</p>

<p>First, I am not sure that Michigan would get you that much better of a job than a top resume from Alabama. However, even assuming it is true, the optimism is amazing. Let me demonstrate:</p>

<p>Lets say that you bought a stock for $20 per share. In two years, what price would you be selling it for? Take your time. This isn’t a trick question. Just pick a price. Don’t read below until you pick a price.</p>

<p>I would bet that almost all of you said some number over $20 and were probably little pigs when you said $30 or more.The sad truth is that the stock price could decline, yet I would bet that most of you never thought to pick a price less than $20.</p>

<p>Being in the top 10% of any college, especially Michigan , which is renown for being very difficult, is quite a feat. Remember everyone there was in the top 10% of their high school, but only 10% can make the top 10% in college.This becomes particularly difficult for those top state schools that don’t have grade inflation and have a lot of stars like Michigan.</p>

<p>Likewise, saying that going to Michigan will increase your chances for IB jobs is just as problematic. I would bet that it takes the top 2-5% At top schools to get those jobs. In addition, it is probably even harder than ever due to the financial condition of most wall street firms. Thus, why pay 100K more for a school where you have probably a 90+% chance of not getting a better job or making more money than you would at Alabama?
In fact, if you invest 100K today and earn a measly 5% long term rate of return, your future value at retirement would be $704,000!
Think about it…</p>

<p>Yeah, but what would that 700k be worth in today’s money? Also, I know it’s extremely difficult to be in the top 10% at UM. I’m smart and have the work ethic to be a top student. I may not be top 10%, but that is what I’d be shooting for and that’s what I would expect from myself, and I’ll do everything I can to get there. And yes, this is looking far ahead, but I should be looking ahead to decide on which college to choose.</p>

<p>when making a decision like this, the question that needs to be asked is: where do you want to work after you graduate? New York/Chicago? or Alabama? If the answer if the latter, don’t bother spending the $100k going to Michigan. </p>

<p>having been to michigan and my own state school, my experience tells me that there IS a difference among state schools. like it or not, people are generally incorrect when they say “it’s all the same.” think about it. if they are all the same, why do some schools charge more than others?</p>

<p>at michigan, you get an education much more than a degree. the college town lifestyle enables you to develop a set of professional/social connections that can last a lifetime. </p>

<p>also, people, instead of thinking “I can’t afford michigan,” try thinking “what can I do to work this out?” don’t live through life based on what you THINK you can afford, when by using some creativity and thinking outside the box, the potentials are endless.</p>

<p>most of my michigan friends DID NOT pay the full michigan tuition. aside from getting the $ from parents, many of them got scholarships, worked part-time, enrolled in the reserves, or secured a GSI (teaching) position from U of M. My point is, there are so many ways to bring down the cost of your education that the difference in tuition does not even have to be a factor.</p>

<p>MANY OF THEM GRADUATED OUT OF MICHIGAN DEBT-FREE!</p>

<p>Call me shallow, but when you go to a school like michigan, you get plugged into a better social network, you get to make many friends that are much more talented than people you would encounter at a commuter school. at michigan, there are no students in their 30s or 40s that priortize their kids over school. In this economy, you are also much more likely to even get a job at all when you go to a decent school.</p>

<p>remember, ability is not always opportunity. when you have 2 equally talented students, sometimes it’s the difference in alumni network that decides who gets a job.</p>

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<p>First off, don’t base your decision solely on what I’m saying because that wouldn’t be smart, and I wouldn’t even recommend it. But really, everyone at those types of schools are “smart and have the work ethic”, and there are a lot of things, sometimes outside of your control that may prevent you from being in the top 10%. You may get bad professors, a bad roommate, a bad test which could cause you to not do as well in some classes. Furthermore, college is a whole new ball game compared to high school, so you can’t just assume that you’ll be top 10% even if you work as hard as you can because it’s a lot more competitive and you’re competing with a whole different group of people to be at the top. Just saying that I will do everything in my power to be top 10 even if you do it really doesn’t mean anything. I guarantee that the difficulty of college will take you by surprise on your first midterm when you don’t do as well as you like, despite being statistically well above your peers in terms of high school GPA/ACT/SAT/etc.</p>

<p>Also, realize that while Michigan will put you in a much better place to make a run at i-banking, there are absolutely no guarantees that you will still get it. For those types of jobs, now, you are not only competing with the absolute best in your own school (which is hard, believe me), but also the best of schools that are probably even better than yours, making it even harder. I’d say that being top 10% at Mich isn’t enough for those jobs unless you cure cancer or something. Realistically, you’d need to be at least top 5% along with great ECs/networking to have a shot from Mich, which won’t be easy.</p>

<p>With that said, I don’t want to scare you/doubt your abilities since I don’t know you, but I’d say really, really think about this and don’t just assume that putting your all will be enough. I know 2 absolutely brilliant guys at Wharton’s M&T programs that are having to battle to get into the top 10% despite being much smarter than their peers. And while they’re pretty much set for life since that is such a prestigious program, it goes to show that nothing is guaranteed in terms of class rank no matter how smart you are.</p>

<p>taxguy, you are forgetting that having UMich prestige gives a better chance at a top 5 MBA program. Which means that 100k is a joke compared to the type of salaries a Top 5 MBA grad makes.</p>

<p>Also as mentioned above, the Alumni network is HUGE when it comes to prestigious jobs. Not your typical mediocre accounting job.</p>

<p>gobluecpa-those kids had some $ from parents. I won’t get a dime. I will not get 100k in scholarships.</p>

<p>cream-obviously I might not make the top 10%. The odds are against me. I probably have under a 50% chance of doing it. Obviously most people there are smart and work hard, but I think I’ll work harder than most and am a bit smarter than most. Most people just want to do “well,” and aren’t killing themselves to be in the top 10% though.</p>

<p>jrt336- all i was trying to say was there are many ways to pay for college other than begging the parents. when i was at michigan, i got a scholarship that covered a good chunk of the tuition. even though i had to take on a little bit of student loan, i thought it was totally worth it considering i was employed right out of school. </p>

<p>how do you know if you won’t get some financial aid later on in your college career? keep your options open.</p>

<p>I’m leaning towards UM right now, but not by much. A 100k difference is pretty big. I won’t make a choice until I see how much UM gives me, but it probably won’t be much because my dad makes good money and they don’t give out a ton of merit scholarships. I’ll have to wait and see.</p>

<p>gobluecpa notes,if they are all the same, why do some schools charge more than others?"</p>

<p>Response: Did you not hear of the Mercedes Effect? Folks will pay more for a Mercedes than many other types of equivalent cars. Are they that much better? Not really, but they have the Mercedes star that people thinks, improperly, gives them more prestige.</p>

<p>Some schools are much more expensive because they are more in demand. It is a function of supply and demand. Some schools are able to convince the unwary that prestige is worth a LOT more money. As one person noted many years ago: “The masses are asses.”</p>

<p>Either Cream or JRT336 notes,bviously I might not make the top 10%. The odds are against me. I probably have under a 50% chance of doing it"</p>

<p>Response: Actually, unless my math is a bit rusty, you have a 10% chance of being in the top 10%.</p>

<p>Dawgie notes, taxguy, you are forgetting that having UMich prestige gives a better chance at a top 5 MBA program."</p>

<p>Response: Sorry Dawgie, I respect most of your posts, but you are pulling this one out of your butt. I checked, as an example, student profiles for Harvard MBA. Check them for yourself [Tiera</a> Brown Profile - MBA - Harvard Business School](<a href=“http://www.hbs.edu/mba/profiles/students/2010/tbrown.html]Tiera”>http://www.hbs.edu/mba/profiles/students/2010/tbrown.html)</p>

<p>Many went to lower tiered US and foreign schools such as Spielman, University of Mass, University of Calgary, etc. This was also true for Harvard Law school etc.</p>

<p>Also folks who think that going to Schools like University of Alabama will limit them to jobs in Alabama are quite mistaken. Just call up the law school for Alabama or even other major state schools such as Maryland. Ask the career placement office where grads are working and if they are working at out of state companies?</p>

<p>Taxguy, why the hell would you show me ONE or two instances of a low ranked school and try to pretend that represents the entire population? Go look at any top 5 MBA resume book and look at all the ivy league and top schools. Come on now a few examples doesn’t make anything true.</p>

<p>^agreed. While I think that a reason the majority of the top MBAs are from top undergrads is partially due to some extraneous variables (i.e. more ivy league people are aiming for those top schools, they have more smart kids, etc.) and that it’s still very possible to get into those programs without going to wharton for undergrad with a bit of work, top schools do help you out A LOT for the MBA portion. We all know how important work experience for those MBAs and that it is a bit easier to get a top job from a good school vs a lower ranked school, so a good school will indirectly help in that regard. However, at the same time, I also think that you can get into HBS from a lower-ranked school if you maintain a GREAT GPA, GREAT GMAT, and work a little bit harder to get your foot at a good company. Your W.E. doesn’t just have to be at Goldman or something, and you can get in through less traditional but still valuable routes, but I’d agree with dawgie that indirectly, your UG will help you form good connections which will make getting into the top MBAs easier.</p>

<p>Overall, 10% of the students will be in the top 10%. I am not the average student. Even compared to Michigan students, I am higher than the 75th percentile in test scores (I know this doesn’t mean a ton, but still) and I am smarter and harder working than almost everyone I know who got in so far too. This doesn’t necessarily translate to college, but it’s usually a good indicator.</p>

<p>This is taking it to the extreme, but a kid with a 36/2400/4.0 has a much better than 10% chance of being in the top 10 percent.</p>