<p>I think that taking the AP US history might be a little too much. I mean, I know that I could handle it, but it might mean sacrificing some valuable time that could be spent otherwise. Also, the American Studies class sounds more fun and useful for a musical theatre major. And to tell you truth, I think that the American Studies is weighted the same as the AP US History is. So as I see it now, the only benefit of taking the AP class would be to have another class with AP in front of it on my transcripts. And as for the duel credits, I guess I’ll have to look into how they affect scholoships and other stuff like that. But if worse comes to worse, then I just wouldn’t apply the credits to my college. Thanks for all of your input.</p>
<p>As a student puts together a list of schools to apply, it is important to fully explore the role of academics in the admissions process at a particular school. There are schools where the academic review is entirely separate from the talent review, schools where both are blended together, schools where academics are given equal weight to talent, schools where talent is given greater weight than academics. There are schools where you can be rejected based on academics and you are done regardless of the outcome of your audition and schools where the theatre department can influence the admissions outcome where you are borderline on academics. There are schools where the academic criteria for admissions are set high and schools where they are not.</p>
<p>Academic load in h.s., from a college admissions perspective, even for MT students, is all about how to make yourself as competitive as possible, within the range of your capabilities, so as to maximize your options. Look at the list of schools at the top of the MT page that have their own forum (i.e. are the frequently discussed schools). You will be surprised at the number for which a 3.6 gpa is just “average” and at the number for which it is “below average” in the profile of incoming freshmen. There are certainly a number of high quality MT programs at which a 3.6 is a very strong showing and therefore the audition will clearly be the the most important determining factor. But even at those schools, a student may very well be competing with many others with much stronger academics and where talent is determined to be relatively equal between two students, the one with the better academics could likely get the nod.</p>
<p>The point is not that those who are not “honors/AP” students or have lower academic achievement should despair, that is certainly not the case; there are high quality schools where the academic profile for admissions is not as selective as others. I think the point is twofold. 1) Many of the more desirable MT programs have high academic criteria and the higher your academic achievement the more options you will have. 2) Taking the most demanding h.s. curriculum within your capabilities is critical to developing the work ethic and time management skills essential to succeeding in a BFA MT program. A student who has not taken honors/Ap classes can certainly find a good MT program where that wont be a fatal deficiency in the admissions process but a student that has not consistently pushed him or her self to achieve the best they can will likely struggle greatly in any BFA program regardless of the academic standards for admission. This holds true even for the schools that soozie identified as being less academically selective.</p>
<p>Anyone who is looking ahead to the MT admissions process should very much consider all that MichaelNKat wrote above. I agree with everything he stated.</p>
<p>I think this is the toughest thing for high school students to wrap their head around. Yes, of course, the audition is extremely important and will ultimately decide whether you get accepted into a BFA program. However, these are educational institutions not just theatrical training programs—your academic education matters… a lot in most of them. They want to select students that are talented AND have the potential to knock it out of the park academically as well. The willingness to work hard and set high goals, the drive and determination to push yourself academically, your ability to balance academics with your artistic studies are indicators of your likelihood of success once you get to the college. The institution you graduate from wants to be sure that you represent their school well as an intelligent, educated person in addition to being talented. Also, as many posters have already mentioned–scholarship money is overwhelmingly given based on academic success over artistic skill. As far as the choice between classes, while AP classes are always a good thing, it sounds like you may have an opportunity to use this unique History class as material for personal statements/essays that you need to write for college entrance. This could be something that sets your application apart from others who followed the typical AP path. If you really speak to how this enriched your studies of your art form etc., it could actually be a great thing—especially if it is sincere (that shows through your writing) It sounds like you are excited about the course–I would hate to see you pass on that because of some ‘perceived’ advantage of taking the AP class over this one. Just my humble opinion.</p>
<p>Thank you for your opinions on my question. I think I will keep my schedule the way it is so that I will be taking the new history course instead of the AP one. And I actually truly am going to try to maintain my 4.02 GPA throughout the next two years so that I can keep all of the doors open to college accpetances, scholarships, etc. I am very excited that some of you say that the BFA programs for MT are very rigorous and require hard work. I am the type of person that always likes to have a life full of activities and other things to focus on. I can’t stand over the summer when I have nothing to do for several weeks at a time. I think that I’m going to fit in well with whatever MT or acting program that I decide to attend when the time comes.</p>
<p>Anyone reading these posts and wondering about the importance of AP’s shouldn’t forget they really can give you college credit - and that could mean saving lots of money! Graduating in three years from NYU instead of four could mean a savings of over 50,000 dollars! The hard work can definitely pay off in the end.</p>
<p>When push comes to shove and the college costs are on the spread sheet a lot of students wisely opt to stay in state. In my state, to go to the flagship school, a student that is not part of a under represented minority must have at least three APs. Some provisions are made for very good athletes but not MT. And three APS just keep your app out of the reject pile. So until you talk to your parents and they assure you that you have the means to go private, take those APS. Take them anyway because privates give more academic scholarships than talent and sometimes both.</p>
<p>At most BFA MT programs, AP’s that result in college credit will not, unfortunately, enable you to graduate early or save you any tuition dollars. That is because most BFA programs have a very structured sequence of mandated departmental courses that you take with your cohort over a four year period. Typically, the AP’s can be used to waive out of required liberal arts classes (but not classes in the mandated MT curriculum) thereby freeing up time in a student’s schedule to take desired electives. Moreover, scholarships typically require a student to maintain full time status so AP’s can’t be used to lighten the number of classes taken in a semester. However, at schools that offer an opportunity for a minor or second major, using AP’s to free up scheduling time can facilitate those other pursuits.</p>
<p>My daughter walked into her BFA program with 3 college credits in History of Theatre and 3 in Acting which she obtained during the summer before her senior year of h.s. from a university that housed a BFA MT program. Her school, as is typical with most BFA programs, would not apply those credits to her MT curriculum, not even to the History of Theatre class in her MT curriculum, and she could only use those credits as elective credits. She still, however, had to maintain full time status to maintain her scholarship. Other students, who had 4’s and 5’s on AP’s, were able to waive out of required liberal arts classes so they had the space in their schedule to take other classes.</p>
<p>What MichaelNKat wrote above is true. </p>
<p>happy2be…at NYU, I haven’t heard of anyone graduating an entire year early (in three years) due to AP credits. However, my daughter has many friends who graduated in 3.5 years, in part, due to AP credits (and perhaps one summer of college coursework as well). There may be a limit to how many AP credits you can use (not sure the specifics, sorry). Also, then there is MichaelNKat’s point about the BFA curriculum itself. But yes, you are right that many do save money by graduating NYU/Tisch early but again, I have only seen those who did it in 3.5 years, not three.</p>
<p>checkbook, I don’t know what state you are in, but the rule of three APs to gain admission to a state school is not true in our state. Many high schools don’t even offer APs or if they do, they only offer a couple of them. Also, in our state college system, and in particular the colleges that are NOT the state flagship, it is often the students who are not the top students who attend these colleges.</p>
<p>Typically (speaking of colleges in general), a college doesn’t require a certain number of AP classes to gain admissions, but rather colleges examine the rigor of your chosen HS curriculum in the context of your own high school. They prefer to see students who have taken a very demanding curriculum. The most selective colleges want to see students who have taken the MOST demanding curriculum available to them. But what these courses are called varies from HS to HS and a student’s level of course rigor will be determined within the context of their high school’s school profile document.</p>
<p>I think that whether a student takes the “most” rigorous curriculum is also relative to the school system in terms of how the colleges will look at the application. From our town, a student can get into the most academically selective schools for theater with a strong scholastic record, but not the most demanding curriculum – a challenging one, but not one that has every advanced course possible. </p>
<p>To me, the main lesson here is not to assume that grades and course selection don’t count in the face of great talent; but to work hard and be the best YOU can be academically. If you aren’t a top student, then take whatever challenge you are up for and do well in those classes. The key is to give yourself an opportunity to have the most options from among those schools that would be the best fit for you both artistically and academically.</p>
<p>I agree with MNK and Soozie, very good points on the importance of academics and how it is weighed by the individual schools. A further point however is not only the importance of acceptance, but also of staying in your school. When applying to very competitive schools, where the applicant pool is overwhelming, academics will be an important factor. There are many, many talented kids out there as we all know. But a school must use academics as a barometer of success. All schools want kids that that are talented and have the ability to handle the rigors of the classroom. In most programs you will spend more time in the classroom than you did in high school and then if you are lucky spend you evenings rehearsing. Schools look for kids that have exhibited an ability to succeed in the classroom and still handle multiple EC’s. And they are all looking for kids that can handle this for 4 years as they need to have the tuition money they counted on. As parents we are also looking for a children to succeed and the best place for them is not always the “best” school they could get into. Make sure your child is truly prepared the rigors of a musical theater program…look at the curriculum and make sure it’s truly a good fit for your child…“school” does not end in high school as many MT majors think. And don’t we all want our children to be smart actors who can handle the business they are hoping to be a part of?</p>
<p>I’m glad smartmom brings this issue up. I often hear people say that they think it only matters (or only should matter) if they can sing, act, and dance to be admitted to a BFA in MT program. But the issue is that the student is entering COLLEGE. They are not simply entering some training, but an actual SCHOOL. If I were the admissions officer for a BFA in MT program, I would certainly examine the academic record of an applicant. Some students wonder, “but I won’t be studying math or foreign language (for example) in college and so why should it matter?” But the issue is that one’s high school academic record (this includes level of rigor of coursework, actual grades in all classes, GPA, class rank) indicates the KIND of student someone is and if they can handle COLLEGE (not simply can they handle singing, dancing, and acting). It is a college degree program and moreover, a VERY demanding one in terms of classtime, rigor, preparation, etc. Besides, there is typically some liberal arts coursework beyond acting, singing, and dancing in most BFA programs and a college will want to know you can succeed in such classes. By examining one’s high school record, they can see if a student has challenged him/herself (rigor of classes) and how they fared with grades, as well as if they were able to juggle all that and a full extracurricular load in the performing arts, etc. because they want to know that the student can handle the time management and work necessary to succeed in a very demanding BFA COLLEGE degree program. One’s high school record reveals a lot about someone as a student. They are going to be a STUDENT in college as well. </p>
<p>In my line of work, I often observe the work ethic of students on their application/admissions process, and typically the kids who have good grades and demanding courses in high school are the ones who seem to be able to handle the college application deadlines and have a strong work ethic. I see a direct correlation in their application process with the kind of student they are in high school. It truly is demonstrated even in that context. When they say they are too busy to work on college essays and so on because they are in shows and what not, I try to gently explain that every kid I am working with has shows and arts classes outside the school day and many of them have umpteen AP classes to boot (whereas the ones with the excuses do not take hard classes) and they are able to do the college apps, and I also explain the kind of schedule that they will be facing in a BFA program and how they will be expected to do certain things even in a very full and busy schedule. There are times, even in my own observations where even I wonder if they can handle a BFA program, even if they love to sing, act, and dance and are talented. </p>
<p>It is really important to know what you are getting into if you attend a BFA program. It is not for everyone. It is not like regular college where you have some free time. You have barely any free time. It is very demanding. That is why even a BFA program will want to accept students who have demonstrated that they can handle a demanding work load even in high school and do well (not so much that they are good at history, math, or Spanish specifically).</p>
<p>It is definitely possible to graduate early from NYU. My child did it in 5 semesters and one summer session, and a friend of hers did it in three years. Lots of hard work, and the AP’s, but it is most definitely possible.</p>
<p>happy2be, thanks for pointing that out. I had only known of kids who did it in 3.5 years at NYU/Tisch. Back in the day, when I went to college (not NYU), I also graduated in 3.5 years. My NYU kid would not ever consider graduating early from college since she graduated HS in 3 years and wanted to do all four of college.</p>
<p>Soozievt, we do have a few counties which are considered economically disadvantaged, but if a student doesn’t come from one of these areas, play sports very, very well or is part of an in demand minority ,three APS are what gets ones app. in the proper pile.
That isn’t the case for the other in state universities, just the flagship and that is not published, but it’s what the recruiters from the university talk to students about during high school visits and pass on to the guidence office. When my daughter was in the local high school five years ago it was two, it’s jumped due to the number of apps.</p>
<p>I am part of the alumni network for this university, a booster and I live a few yards from campus. Unfortunately as long as colleges put so much importance on USNEWS and WORLD REPORT they will continue to be giddy over APs. I have seen a lot of students change thier minds about MT and all other fields so I hate to see any student slow down academically and close options. I have also seen parents, when considering college costs
limiting their students to instate schools when the student thought any school was a consideration.</p>
<p>thecheckbook, our state flagship is definitely harder to get into than the other state universities (which are not hard to get into at all). And yes, you have to be a very good student to get in, I believe. In fact, our state flagship draws heavily from out of state students as well. I was just saying that in our state, not every high school offers AP classes or if they do, they may offer just a few. So, the criteria for acceptance to the flagship is not X number of AP classes, but rather the level of rigor of courses the student has taken (which they DO care about at this university) within the context of their HS, which for example, could be Honors classes. I don’t think you have to take the MOST demanding HS courses to get in there (as would be the case at elite colleges), but yes, you would have to take more than average in level of how demanding the courses were…“more demanding,” as they say on a spectrum. </p>
<p>But context of one’s HS and what is offered is always examined by colleges. In fact, when my kids went to our HS, back then, only two courses had the AP designation…Calculus and Physics. The most demanding courses (and they were demanding) were called Honors. My D1 took the most demanding courses and then some (went beyond what was offered and accelerated too) and got into Ivy League schools and other elite colleges (so that is TWO AP classes). D2 also took the most demanding courses (which are Honors here) and AP Calculus in junior year and never got to take AP Physics which is only offered to seniors as she graduated HS after junior year. She had accelerated a lot. She got some great scholarships at various BFA programs. Since my kids graduated, I believe our HS has changed the designation on some of the senior courses to AP and so maybe there are five AP classes offered now. This is an example of what I was trying to say. My D1 was not interested at all in our state flagship (she had out of state private schools for safety schools), but was offered a free ride there which is given to every valedictorian in the state and so again, this is with TWO AP classes but her school record indicates “most demanding” for rigor of classes and above and beyond what the HS offered as well (she also took AP Calculus BC long distance through Johns Hopkins CTY, so I guess that is three APs).</p>
<p>Do you have any idea what percentage of students that express an interest in MT as hs sophomores actually persue it in college? That’s another reason why I don’t like to see kids limiting there academics in persuit of more time to sing/dance/act. I wish they could all attend a program like BTP, CITS or Cap21 before they made life effecting decisions.</p>
<p>I totally agree with you that any student, no matter their intended college major (which obviously could change anyway) should pursue academics to the fullest in high school and take the most demanding courseload they can handle (varies from person to person). I do not support taking a lighter load in order to sing, dance and act. You can sing, dance, and act AND pursue a demanding high school academic curriculum. Extracurricular endeavors should never substitute for academics in high school. </p>
<p>Also, with how competitive BFA in MT admissions are, it can only help to have a strong academic record that may separate you and the next person who possesses equal artistic talent, not to mention that you must be academically qualified for admissions and also it helps with scholarships. Also, those who don’t do well in high school are limiting which MT programs they can apply to as some require strong academics. Then there is the point you mention, checkbook, that one’s intended college major may shift during the high school years (or even after!) and it is best to not close any doors by not having pursued strong academics and not having performed well academically in high school.</p>
<p>Keep in mind that some kids change their minds when the time comes to create the final college list. After assuming for years that D would choose a BFA, the schools that ultimately climbed to the top of her list ended up being very academically selective BAs (Northwestern, Yale and Brown). The same thing happened to many of her friends (all of whom had several strong BFA admits) as well, and those who had opted for a lighter course load in HS were not admitted to their top choice BA programs.</p>
<p>As others have said, keep as many options open as possible, since what you want when it comes time to make a final school choice may not be what you expect today.</p>