<p>I had an eagerly anticipated telephone conversation with an acquaintance last evening regarding the BS application process. His professional association puts him in a postion to know a lot about college and BS admissions. I was very surprised at his "take" with regard to standardized testing.
During our conversation I mentioned twice that my D performs strongly on standardized tests - along with her strong transcript, I felt this might help "even" the playing field - she is not a "recruitable level" athlete and does not have legacy at any school on our short list.
His advice to me was to steer clear of ANY emphasis on standardized test performance. Don't mention them in your parent statement, the interview or highlight them anywhere in the application. The schools have them in the applicant's file, and his view was they will barely glance at them. His opinion was that in top tier schools, standardized tests are quietly viewed as "antedeluvian" (spelling?) but the system has not yet caught up with the trend. The emphasis now is on leadership skills, creativity and academic "promise" which the tests do not measure. While I was aware of the importance of these qualities, I figured if the schools require the tests for admission, they must place some importance on them.</p>
<p>Further he sent me a link to a list of over 850 colleges that no longer require the SAT for admission - Optional</a> List | FairTest. While some of the institutions listed are lower tier, I was shocked to find schools like Fairfield, Gettysburg, Franklin and Marshall, Drew, Smith, Providence, Univeristies of Maine and Wisconsin, Rolllins, Mount Holyoke, Loyola, Hamilton and the whole California State University System. Some schools on the list require a ceratin GPA before the requirement is waived or give the applicant the option of taking an SAT Subject Test (NYU for instance). Others that I checked simply make the SAT optional.<br>
Has my head been in the sand? While I have heard the "rumblings" about standardized testing coming out of California, I had no idea the trend had taken such a powerful turn. Thoughts?</p>
<p>The key word in the part about the SAT is “optional.” Until these same colleges tell kids NOT to send SAT scores, I won’t believe it truly doesn’t matter. I haven’t checked, but I pretty sure there’s at least a dozen threads about the SAT optional thing over on the main forum.</p>
<p>As for BS and the SSAT, the top schools probably see a much smaller variety of scores than the other schools, so it’s probably true that they glance and say, “Hmm, another with everything over 80…check” I never mentioned my son’s SSAT scores, but several schools did send notes, emails, or call when they received them, which tells me pretty clearly that they did more than glance at them. But I agree with your friend about them looking for “leadership skills.” </p>
<p>My question is, how do they tell if a 13 y/o has leadership skills or not? A kid that is a leader at a mediocre school because of his intellect may not emerge as a leader at a school where he is with equally or more intelligent peers. I guess they do it the same way they determine that a kid is “nice.”</p>
<p>SSAT - I do not think they do more than “glance” - if it’s a high score they certainly make a mental note of it (which would be why neato heard mention of it in notes, etc), but it does not give an advantage. It puts you in the game or makes the transcript even more important. For example, anything in the 80’s puts you in the game EVERYWHERE. 82 or a 92 makes no difference. The top tier schools all do not accept hundreds of 99% SSAT kids every year. Scores under 80 do not mean you are “out of it” just means that they look closer at other factors.<br>
Or, a kid who scores 99% and then gets all B’s and C’s - what does that tell them? They look at it for different things, but it is LOW on the list. </p>
<p>We were at a College Admissions workshop last year with admissions reps from two highly respected and competitive colleges in attendance. Both of them recently went to SAT Optional status. They both clearly said that for those who do chose to not send in the SAT’s that the transcript is even more important. They both had a good number (can’t remember the %, but it was not insignificant) of applicants not submit the SAT. One of them did a comparison of SAT scores of their ADMITTED students (they do get it after you have been accepted for their demographic purposes only) and that the average of those who did not submit was actually HIGHER than the average of those who did submit with their application.</p>
<p>SSAT’s for top HADES schools are very important especially if you don’t have an athletic or a URM or other hook. This is what I heard at a top BS admission meeting recently. That’s precisely why HADES schools post their average SSAT scores in the 90s. If they take people with lower average, they will start looking like 2nd tier schools and the schools know that.</p>
<p>Neato, my understanding is that they look at the EC’s - Are they the editor of the school newsapaper or a contributing writer? Did they START a new club or community service effort? Are they class president or hold some other position of leadership in their school community?</p>
<p>Pulsar - I know MANY MANY MANY kids who are at a HADES school who did not have SSAT scores in the 90’s. They are looking to “build a class” and that includes a variety. They could all fill all their spots with 99% and all A’s, but then they would have a school of all the same kid. They are certainly proud of their average but they are not more important than the transcript and recommendations. </p>
<p>Madaket - For colleges I would say they certainly look at community service and EC’s (especially since most don’t have interviews any more), but for prep school it’s harder because how many 13 year olds have done THAT much? It’s a piece of it for sure, along with the interview and the recs.</p>
<p>Linda, I said the top BS AVERAGE SSAT scores are 90%. That obviously means some will have lower than 90%, but not too much lower as it drags down the average score. Please stop selling myths about people with 99% SSATs as if they don’t have any other dimensions. They can also be great artists, musicians who just happen to have 99%. If God made them smart artists or musicians, they don’t need to apologize for it.</p>
<p>Scores are quietly being de-emphasized during admissions - even at BS. Why? Because there are now legions of students being “prepped” through professional courses which puts students in urban and rural areas at a disadvantage. There are some schools that spend a year or more prepping students on them (SSAT and SAT). So while they may be part of the screening, the transcript, essays and recommendations carry a lot more weight.</p>
<p>Said an Adcom quietly during my daughter’s interview “We know the tests scores are skewed to favor a subset.” Most Adcoms look beyond that.</p>
<p>I once got yelled at by a foreign parent who asked if we ever turned down students with perfect scores at MIT. I replied “yes.” He was incensed and I understood that in his country the test scores determine entrance into the best colleges. </p>
<p>Here we look at extracurriculars, personality, maturity, accomplishments, etc.</p>
<p>So a student with a perfect score with no other aspects to their lives beyond they are bright academically, may be outclassed by a student for whom the A’s and B’s took a lot of effort but they also chair SADD and work a part-time job (or volunteer, or got an Eagle Scout, or . . . . )</p>
<p>Focus on the student, not the stats. Bragging or even bringing attention to stats is sometimes a red flag. (But mostly - it’s more a question of parents and students trying to emphasize what they’ve been told traditionally is important, unaware that it no longer is.)</p>
<p>Students scoring within a certain “range” often do fine. Students at the lower end of the range sometimes do better because they didn’t let stats rule their lives in high school and supplemented with other things that brought them joy. The latter shows up in essays and interviews and causes the students to stand out in the pile.</p>
<p>The posts here on CC of the 2010 BS admits on March 10, 2010 all had high SSATs. Deemphasizing SSATs is a myth propagated by some. If you disagree, apply with low SSATs and we will check the results on March 10, 2011.</p>
<p>I know of two candidates with siblings at Deerfield who were not admitted last spring because of “low” SSAT scores. Both were recruitable athletes and one also did well in the classroom. So there does appear to be a minimum SSAT at Deerfield.</p>
<p>My “take away” from this is that the “schools will do what the schools will do” with the test scores. BUT, I am one to seek and heed good “counsel” when I am in unchartered territory. The scores are there for them to see. I am not going to risk exposing my obvious lack of knowledge in current education trends - think I will stick to what I know - my D’s positve character traits.</p>
<p>The posts here on CC represent a very small subset of highly motivated (or in some cases obssessive) students. There are many lurkers who do not post.</p>
<p>So sorry - just another example of why you aren’t reaching your goals, kiddo. Can’t make stats fit your perception of the world. As an Adcom, I can tell you on great authority that scores are only cursory. If the students have all the other “right stuff” the score becomes a minimal consideration.</p>
<p>Some students are bright but don’t test well. Another might have the personality of a dust mite and score perfectly. Adcoms are looking for more than a test score. I bet you’d do better in your pursuits if you stopped searching for SUPERMAN and started grounding yourself in reality.</p>
<p>At an admitted students day at DA one of the Dean’s stated that SSAT scores are used only as a threshold measure for admission. Getting a score above that threshold is important, but how much above is irrelevant to the application. I would add that most students are applying with great grades and great recs. The only way to differentiate is to show passion, desire, maturity and leadership in ECs, the interview and the essays. By the way, D took the SSATs with no prep and got very mediocre scores by CC standards.</p>
<p>That’s old news (2006) and also related to lower tier colleges, not the same league as the ivies and HADES. For example, if you go to a community college, they may not care that much about your SATs. But it has nothing to do with HADES admissions which still require high SSATs (the latest 2010 admit SSAT Average Scores) especially if you don’t have a URM or some hook like that.</p>
<p>Back to the OP’s question: I think that SSAT, not SAT, scores matter (somewhat) for 9th grade admissions. </p>
<p>SAT scores (unless good enough that they garner some distinction in the CTY/TIP programs, though even that could be debated) apparently do not count that much for admissions (for 9th grade)…I’m pretty sure on all the apps I’ve seen so far, they state explicitly that SATs are NOT to be used in lieu of SSAT scores (again, for 9th graders…they might be accepted for 11th grade). SET level SAT scores I think are definitely “feathers in the cap” and I could point to Julian Stanley’s work at JHU that above-level (taking a test meant for 16 year olds when you are 12 or 13) test scores can and have predicted future academic success.</p>
<p>I think (as someone else noted above), it’s sort of a threshold thing. If a candidate is below a certain threshhold, they should have some other strong “hook(s)” to compensate. But I would think that by and large, kids applying to the usual suspects will have scores at least 80th percentile sand up…</p>