IMPORTANT: Grade Deflation

Colleges and Universities A-Z Princeton University
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<p>After looking through this forum, it would seem that grade deflation is a major concern for a number of applicants. Even though I've only been here for a semester, I would like to share my experience with the policy to clarify the effect of grade deflation on academic life.</p>

<p>Note: I would highly advise potential students to read the university's grading publications in full. (They can be found here: Grading</a> Overview - Office of the Dean of the College ) </p>

<p>A bit of background: The grade deflation policy limits the percentage of A grades (A+, A, and A-) to 35% of the total for each department over a rolling three year period. According to the Dean of the College, the policy is not a "strict rule;" rather, professors should not hesitate to give truly deserving students "A" grades. A common misconception is that this policy applies to each individual class. Although some courses, such as the introductory economics courses and the 200 level politics courses, aim for 30-35% "A" grades for each class, there are also upper level courses in which almost every student receives an "A" grade. This occurs because the policy allows each department to determine how it will bring its grading into compliance, and a number of departments elect to reserve a large number of "A" grades for upper level classes (at the expense of those students taking introductory courses). </p>

<p>Regarding my personal experience: Last semester, I took two courses which (in my opinion) bore the brunt of grade deflation. In the first course, a 200 level POL class, my preceptor made it clear that she could only give out a certain number of "A" grades in our precept. (Note: This technically violates the policy, as the 35% rule applies to departments as a whole, NOT to individual classes.) Once, I met with my preceptor to discuss where I had gone wrong on a paper, so as to improve for the next paper. The response I got? "Other papers were just better. I could only give out a certain # of "A" grades." In the other course, an introductory language class, the department dealt with the grading dilemma by requiring a 99% for an A, a 95% for an A-, and a 91% for a B+. However, this curve was NOT presented on our syllabus, and we were only informed of it the day before winter break. </p>

<p>In essence, the effect of the grade deflation policy has been to turn the formerly "A-" student into a "B+" student. On the surface, this might not sound like much, but the difference in GPA weighting is enormous: a 3.7 vs. a 3.3. With papers and extended essay final exams, the amount of effort required to receive an A- rather than a B+ is (in many cases) absurd. For instance, on my POL final, my preceptor wrote that my answers "contained all the necessary information, but did rise to the level of sparkle." Furthermore, the History department defines an A- paper as one that is "good enough to read out loud," yet fails to provide sufficient detail on how a paper could achieve this distinction. In the pamphlet Grading at Princeton, Dean Malkiel even instructs the faculty to "tilt downward" when making close calls at grade boundaries. (Read: Faculty members should give B+ grades in lieu of A- grades when there is even a sliver of doubt.)</p>

<p>To minimize the impact of grade deflation on one's GPA, here is my personal take:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Avoid introductory language courses in small departments. Such departments often use the intro classes as the primary outlet for grade deflation, resulting in absurdly harsh curves. Don't get me wrong; my language course was by far the best course I've taken thus far. However, when you consider that a 94 is required for an A- in Arabic, a 95 in Russian, etc, it might be best to take a different language if your primary aim is law, medicine, or finance.</p></li>
<li><p>Avoid 200-level humanities/social science courses where possible. These courses are often curved quite strictly; as a result, grading can seem arbitrary and written feedback is rather bland and disappointing. </p></li>
</ol>

<p>True, I haven't been here long enough to issue a scathing condemnation of the grade deflation policy, but suffice it to say it is making my life much more miserable than it needs to be. Feel free to PM me with any questions.</p>

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<p>Thanks for the post. Very interesting and well thought out/written.</p>

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<p>Hmm, after reading this post, I’d be more inclined to try and test out of introductory courses via AP exams and start taking harder classes immediately as your post indicates that the higher the level of the class, the less the grade deflation. I guess there is a twofold incentive to do that at Princeton since not only will your grades presumably be higher, but you will also have the opportunity to take more advanced courses. Of course, if you could take an intro class and ace it, you’d have a nice grade boost, but there’s no guarantee that you’d be at the upper end of the class, especially at Princeton. </p>

<p>Do you know how the grade deflation is in classes like Calculus, Biology, Chemistry, etc?</p>

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<p>For math and science classes, they just make the problems on the tests much, much harder so that <35% would be able to answer them</p>

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<p>Is this from experience or are you just speculating?</p>

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<p>Thanks. That was very informative.</p>

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<p>wow, that…something</p>

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<p>35% is still very high and is on par with all the other Ivies and Stanford. The number is closer to 15% at schools like Berkeley, MIT and Caltech.</p>

<p>This is a good heads up. When going to a school like Princeton, you are expected to work your tail off.</p>

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<p>Where are you getting this information? Your claims are not consistent with the released GPA data. Berkeley’s, MIT’s, and Princeton’s average GPA’s are almost exactly the same (within .01-.02 points). Stanford’s, for example, is signficantly higher (3.55 vs. 3.28).</p>

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<p>@silverturtle: Considering I’m currently at Stanford… I have talked to the Stanford professors? They say it’s typically 35%-50%, with the lower end for the introductory courses.</p>

<p>And I read a news article a couple weeks ago which states hat Berkeley gives 17% A’s.</p>

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<p>I question whether Stanford professors can estimate the grade distributions at the Ivy League schools, Berkeley, MIT, and Caltech more accurately than the schools’ average GPA’s would indicate. </p>

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<p>I find it implausible that Berkeley gives half as many A’s as Princeton does but has the same average GPA.</p>

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<p>I meant at Stanford itself. The 35%-50% might not hold for the other Ivies.</p>

<p>Oops I forgot to say that it’s 17% A’s for Berkeley engineering courses. My bad.</p>

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<p>Sorry for being so obtuse, but how does it make a difference if you get a B- instead of an A+? Princeton’s grade-deflation policy is well-known and I’m sure that most grad schools and employers know better than to equate the GPA of a Princetonian with the GPA of student of an institution where As are handed out like candies. </p>

<p>Does the absolute value of GPA matter so much?</p>

<p>EDIT: I’m sure that I won’t have a problem getting B’s if I ever attend a school like Princeton (that is, my morale won’t suffer). My school is brutal when it comes to grading.</p>

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<p>The absolute value of GPA matters quite a bit when you, for example, apply to jobs or fellowships or scholarships or programs or institutions that strictly say “Minimum GPA: 3.5” or something like that. Which is far more common than high school kids realize.</p>

<p>Anyway, the easiest way to beat grade deflation isn’t to avoid taking introductory classes; it’s to just be smarter than everyone else, which honestly isn’t that hard if you really are a student who should be getting A’s at Princeton. And if you aren’t, don’t blame your own ineptitude on grade deflation.</p>

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<p>^ I didn’t have that in mind. I think I need to research grad schools admissions more.</p>

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<p>I agree with newest newb’s enlightening post. How hard could it possibly be to be in the top 35% of Princetonians?</p>

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<p>35 out of every 100 Princetonians can do it.</p>

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<p>I’ll take those odds any day.</p>

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<p>the odds aren’t THAT bad</p>

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<p>Besides the GPA cutoff for many competitive programs, internships, and jobs (esp. i-banking and consulting internships and jobs), the other reason why grade deflation matters is because on paper, Princeton, Yale, and Harvard are equivalent. However, at Princeton the average GPA is a 3.28 at last count (may be lower now since grade deflation has been a gradual policy, with percentages continuing to go down year after year), while at Yale and Harvard the average GPA is a 3.6. That’s a big difference.</p>

<p>As far as making good grades goes, you do it like you do at most other schools: take courses that you’re naturally really good at or take courses where most people who take it aren’t taking it seriously (courses with a lot of seniors, PDF-ers, people there just to fill a distribution requirement, etc.). Princeton has taught me the opposite lesson that I guess I should be learning: the classes I do poorly in are the ones where I work the hardest (because everyone else is or I’m not naturally as gifted at that subject and so have to work harder to catch up) while the ones I do well in are ones where I have an edge either talent-wise or motivation-wise. </p>

<p>Major also makes a big difference: speaking from personal experience, I can promise you that an anthro major with a 3.5 works WAY less than an engineer with a 3.0. And since, unlike at the vast majority of schools, almost all firms that recruit at Princeton recruit mostly based on GPA and not based on major (they take the official position that if you’re smart enough to get in and hard-working enough to get a good GPA, they can teach you everything you need to know), why not take advantage of it?</p>