<p>
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In general, the cut-off scores for NMSF went down this year in most states.
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Do you have a site with the most recent NMSF cut-off scores for all the states? Thanks!</p>
<p>On the last NMSF cutoff scores, see</p>
<p>BTW, the reason for the drop in cut-off scores is that the scale for writing changes this years, so scores drop.</p>
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I think our school is pushing the test because it wants more National Merit Semi-Finalists
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</p>
<p>And I think you are probably correct. Is that a good enough reason for a parent to let an average 9th or 10th grader take a test designed for an 11th grader? The upside for the KIDS involved eludes me.</p>
<p>What if your 9th grader does poorly, percentile-wise (and of course most will, by definition)? Cancel fun-time, cut back on out of class interests to make time for prep class? Hand them a stack of books with orders to learn to enjoy reading? I'm betting most parents, loving and concerned people, don't do those things. So, what is the point? </p>
<p>I see a danger of discouraging a lot of students, without a lot of offsetting benefits.</p>
<p>If, in fact, all the gamesmanship and plotting results in a greater fraction of qualifiers who qualified only because they were uber-prepped, colleges may start to turn their backs on the National Merit program. In fact, I think some already have.</p>
<p>Seems to me it would be in the long-term interests of CB to restrict the test to 11th graders.</p>
<p>For my D all this standarized testing has been going on since 7th grade when all the gifted and a large portion of those in honors courses at her middle school took the SAT as part of the Duke TIPS program, I think it was. I remember how surprised she was when she scored as well as she did, especially in comparison with high school students. </p>
<p>zebes</p>
<p>We declined the offer to have our son participate in the Duke TIP program in the 7th grade. When deciding, we asked ourselves the pros and cons. Pro: if he does well, we have another bragging point. Con: if he doesn't do well, he and his parents have reduced expectations for his future, or start to doubt his obvious talents.</p>
<p>There was no downside to postponing the SAT until high school.</p>
<p>I see no downside to postponing the PSAT until 11th grade, when it actually matters.</p>
<p>The first two kids took the SAT through Duke TIPS in 7th grade. If our 6th grade daughter is asked to take it next year, I think we'll pass. If I had a child who I thought might be quite gifted in Math, I might have her take it, just to see. Otherwise, I see no benefit in it.</p>
<p>Midmo, </p>
<p>Except for the fact that my D, after taking the PSAT last year, realized how close she was to the national merit cut-off. So, by taking it in 10th grade, it gave her incentive to put some time into preparing a bit for it. Normally, she takes all these tests cold. Won't know if it'll help until scores come out in Dec.</p>
<p>zebes</p>
<p>missypie,
The benefit for my oldest in taking the SAT's in 7th grade was because it was/is the screening tool for the Johns Hopkins CTY summer programs. My two younger ones did not take it, having no interest in spending their summers in serious academic pursuits. They thought their older brother quite mad. ;)</p>
<p>Wholesale PSAT screening of 10th graders is a godsend for those sleepers who get flagged as potential National Hispanic Scholar or National Achievement Scholar material. Otherwise they wouldn't even know to take the test in 11th grade and could miss out on some big opportunity.</p>
<p>My daughter was recommended in 6th grade to sign up for the Johns Hopkins CTY and take the SAT. There was little doubt she would qualify. So we registered her for the test. Then she saw the practice test booklet and decided the test was incredibly boring. We also carefully examined all the programs that CTY offers and decided that not one of them seemed like an appealing way to spend a summer. So she decided to pass on the SAT and instead I took her to the mall with her ditzy friend and the two girls had a great time roaming around, trying on outfits for fun, maybe buying a shirt or two.</p>
<p>Neither she nor us parents have ever regretted that decision. There is a time and place for everything and IMO a 6th grader should not be taking a 5 hr multiple choice exam about nothing in particular.</p>
<p>Thank you, Bomgeedad, for the link to the thread about last year's NMSF scores. I had no idea that the qualifying number for my state went down (still one of the highest cut-offs, though).</p>
<p>vicariousparent,
"Neither she nor us parents have ever regretted that decision. There is a time and place for everything and IMO a 6th grader should not be taking a 5 hr multiple choice exam about nothing in particular."</p>
<p>Unless, of course, they find it to be interesting and a source of entertainment. ;) (Anyway, when mine took it, it was the older version, considerably less than 5 hours duration.)</p>
<p>I just checked the CTY website and it turns out they now accept various State level tests as well. For example from NJ they accept "advanced proficient" in either language or math, something that is really not hard to get at all. I bet they had to do that in order to keep attracting top students. And I apologize for diverging from the original topic of this thread.</p>
<p>My older son loved the CTY summer programs, so for him the SAT in middle school was well worth it. I think it also helped get his school more open minded about some radical acceleration, since he scored better than 90% of high school seniors. For my younger son (not nearly so precocious) it was more of an ego booster. Even though his scores were lower than his brothers, he still scored better than the average high school senior. It really helped him see that he is smarter than he thinks he is. He's also said that he appreciateds having taken the SAT in a low pressure atmosphere.</p>
<p>We've had some good experiences with CTY distance learning courses and summer programs and CTD distance learning courses. We have especially liked EPGY distance learning programs and now they constitute the core of my son's high school curriculum, through the EPGY Online High School. This is interesting topic drift in the thread, because I don't see any indication that the PSAT has anything to do with Talent Search eligibility, but it's certainly possible that a parent wondering about an early PSAT test would also wonder about Talent Search testing with the SAT or the ACT.</p>
<p>vicariousparent, the SAT (or ACT or STB) is still required for CTY courses. They have not changed their standards, and they have no trouble attracting top students. </p>
<p>My son loved the two CTY summer courses he took, and he found taking the SAT much more interesting than a day at school.</p>
<p>NYMomof2: Thanks for the correction. I'm glad your son enjoyed the SAT and the summer courses. As I said, we didn't (and still don't) find any of the CTY courses appealing for our daughter's specific interests and priorities for the summer. Of course, since she hasn't actually attended any of the programs, we will never really know for sure. </p>
<p>Attempting to bring the discussion back to the original post- if you or your kid took the PSAT in sophomore year and then again in junior year- did you see an improvement in the scores? If so, how much? I wonder if the college board keeps those data and if the data are available?</p>
<p>
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if you or your kid took the PSAT in sophomore year and then again in junior year- did you see an improvement in the scores? If so, how much?
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My son took the PSAT in 9th and 10th grades, and his score improved about 20 points. He is taking the PSAT for the last time today as an 11th grader, so we're hoping he makes an equivalent improvement from last year's score...</p>
<p>The College Board reports PSAT percentiles for tenth graders based on data for tenth graders. The percentiles for eleventh graders are based on the scores of eleventh-grade test-takers. So, yes, College Board has data on such things. I don't know if they have a handy report on the Web about expected score gains year-on-year.</p>
<p>In general there is 10-15 points in just growing up from 10th to 11th and another 10-15 points available from prep (which is why CB tells states to flag kids 30 points below their state's last year's cutoffs, I think.) It really depends on what your score is and how much you've already prepped, though. Higher scores are harder to bring up, for instance, and if you've already prepped going into the 9th and 10th grade tests there isn't as much chance to improve. There are a lot of threads on this in the CC SAT section where kids post their year to year scores and whether they prepped. Sometimes scores just don't make any sense, like my s, who didn't prep in 10th, did prep in 11th and his score went down.</p>