<p>D has been accepted to three of her seven schools so far.. UM (with Scholarship worth approx. $85,000/4years - leaving us with appox. $60,000/4 years to pay), Southwestern (with a $48,000/4 years scholarship - again leaving us with about $60,000/4 years to pay), and Rice (with no scholarship and approx. $115,000/4 years to pay). EFC is out of this world ie we will have to borrow almost the entire amount to pay for any of these schools. The other four schools are reaches so do not expect any $$ and all cost around the same or a little more then Rice. D goes to a public school where she stood out by far - did almost everything on her own academically. Only maybe 2 kids a year (out of an approx. class size of 220) go to school anywhere but local colleges. A lot do not go at all. The dilemma I feel my H and I are facing is this: we have always told D that acadmics is what is important - working hard will reek rewards.. she LOVES learning.. how do you explain a kid like this.. umm.. she THRIVES on learning.. has always felt a bit out of place in high school (though you would never know it - on the surface she fit right in but for years she has told us how badly she wants to be around kids "like me" who want to LEARN). The problem is now the time has come to face the fact that MONEY will play such a big role in where she ends up. It seems so unfair - I wish that one of these schools were the "magical" one where I felt that she would thrive and where she would "fit" and where we could afford the pricetag. Sorry just a little down in the dumps today.. getting accepted to Rice yesterday was SO exciting for her but yet.. how can we possibly pay that price tag? The worst thing of all is knowing that D knows the facts and will come to me in April and when all is said and done and say "mom, such and such a school is fine.. I am going there" because she knows that is all that we can afford (though she would never say that was the reason). I just feel like we let her down. And I am not handling it well.</p>
<p>It sounds like you were expecting to pay for college expenses out of current income? (otherwise EFC shouldn't be "out of this world".) Neither UM nor Southwestern is chopped liver (any chance at UM Honors College? - pardon my ignorance - I don't know if there is such a thing. Funny to see Southwestern and UM on the same list - other than Greeks, aren't they about as different as they come?)</p>
<p>But back to my first question. If you took out a loan, you would be paying college savings out of future income rather than past savings, but it really amounts to the same thing, doesn't it? You might want to sit down and figure out what kind of loan payments make sense, and what kinds are out-of-reach.</p>
<p>There are lots of things we might like to own in the world which are out of reach, and that is always disappointing. But the question you (and your d.) would have to ask is actually how much is Rice better than the other two schools, and whether it is worth the price differential. Can't help you there (I don't know that much about these three schools), but that's probably how I'd go about figuring it out.</p>
<p>I am sorry that she doesn't feel more connected to the the schools that are offering scholarships. Have you contacted Rice to let them know that the other schools are offering scholarships and that she would prefer to attend?
I don't know about Rice, but schools are sometimes flexible.
They didn't offer her any merit aid? Sometimes the merit aid comes seperately from admission letter.
I would double check and congratulations on her acceptances!</p>
<p>She must be an amazing student to get such great offers, congrats! I second the remark that MIchigan is a wonderful school, where she'd find plenty of like-minded fellow students, esp. in the Honors College which I assume she's been invited to.</p>
<p>we have always told D that acadmics is what is important - working hard will reek rewards.. she LOVES learning.. how do you explain a kid like this.. umm.. she THRIVES on learning.. has always felt a bit out of place in high school (though you would never know it - on the surface she fit right in but for years she has told us how badly she wants to be around kids "like me" who want to LEARN).</p>
<hr>
<p>Emphasize that learning is mainly a life time, indiviudual thing. So she can learn at any of the schools. BTW a 100k goes along way in adult education circles, for world travelling, internships and other broadening activities and much of the bs of formal school is eliminated iIMHO. </p>
<p>Break out the old amortization tables and show her what a 100K loan actually means. Be sure she understands.</p>
<p>If it helps. We live about 4 miles from Rice U and my son knows lots of kids who go there from his highschool . They are nice kids, but not Gods. Kids like those are certainly common at UT Austin, for instance, where many kids from his highschool also go. I suspect Michigan would have several thousand kids like that. Though we hear good things about Rice we hear generally better things about Southwestern as far as individual attention goes than Rice. It is smaller and not so research oriented. Many including some close friends consider Rice to be very cut throat and a liability wrt to such goals as med school admissions. I also hear that they may have finally separated the pre-meds from the science jocks who read physics and chemistry books for relaxation, may have more grade inflation than in the past, too, but I'm not sure.</p>
<p>Also, it's very possible for your daughter to contribute, if it means enough to her. There is often money available in return for light duties, and you don't necessarily find out about it 'til you get to school. For example, my room and board was fully paid for 3 years because I served as a dormitory "preceptor" in college. Would it be reasonable, when the time comes, to ask her which she would prefer, college A on a scholarship, or college B and some sort of supplemental work?</p>
<p>If your daughter can get into these schools with money, there are other schools that will give her more money.
How about applying to schools with honors colleges in them like Arizona Sate and U of Arizona? You can still apply to those schools.
Is she a NMF? There are many schools she can go to for free.
If you don't have the money, you don't have the money. No need to apologize. Just find a place you can afford.
Are the other 4 schools she has applied to more affordable?</p>
<p>Thanks everyone.. feeling better already. Guess it was just hard yesterday seeing her face when she got Rice acceptance. By the way UM (in my post, LOL!) is the University of Miami - oops!I thought that was how it was abbreviated.</p>
<p>Well, even funnier to see UMiami and Southwestern on the same list!</p>
<p>lsandin---</p>
<p>I agree with Mini in that you just have to lay out all the options & decide whether Rice is worth the extra money--it would be hard for me to justify that kind of added $$$. You gotta figure you'll be paying at least 60K for 4 years (truth be told UMiami will be closer to 70K for 4 years with the merit aid your D got) and go from there. Bottom line is that college costs a ton of money these days unless your kid is a total off-the-charts brain AND attends a school below their capabilities. Start with whatever you think your disposable income (if that exists these days) can afford and then look at unsubsidized Stafford loans, then PLUS loans. Both those options appear better than home equity loans or retirement funds. </p>
<p>From D's standpoint, Southwestern's small size might foster that close learning atmosphere your D desires but Miami is no slouch either--it had been tabbed back in the 70's & 80's as a party school, but apparently they've really turned it around academically & are ranked in the top 50 now. Socially, there's probably more to do on UM's campus & there's the city of Miami as well, but Southwestern has Austin & UT close by. </p>
<p>Really, it sounds like your daughter has some excellent options, a lot more than some students.</p>
<p>Isandin,</p>
<p>OMG!!! I could have WRITTEN this post!!!!!!!!!!! I'm so glad I am not alone here!!! My heart goes out to you and your D...it really, really does. We are in the exact same boat. Only we have six kids, all with aspirations! I gave my son the EXACT same message--work hard, it WILL pay off. And now, reality has set in. </p>
<p>I know that many on this board are in such a different financial situation than we are, and I am so down right now. This morning I read the thread about financial aid stuff (don't remember which specific one), and many were talking about grandparents helping out. HUH? What planet do THEY live on!? <em>LOL</em> Neither set of our grandparents has ever so much as bought an outfit for our kids, much less contributed to a college education <em>sigh</em>. </p>
<p>We were really, really hoping to come out better than we did on the FAFSA, but it seems like my hard-working spouse did us in this year, even though his base salary is low enough to qualify us for all kinds of need-based aid.</p>
<p>My son had his sights on some elite schools, but I doubt that he'll even be accepted to any. He did add a few schools to his list at the last minute, Univ. of Miami being one of them, and from the look of things, he just <em>may</em> qualify for full tuition (he's top 1% of his class and had a 34 on the ACT which are the qualifications as I understand them). We'll see....</p>
<p>I guess I'm just rambling here, but your post just touched me...my son is just like your daughter, well aware of our financial limitations. That's partly why he worked so hard, and I just don't think it's going to pay off at all unless he attends someplace that he'd really rather not (like our state U.).</p>
<p>I don't know what to say to you, but I will say this...you are NOT alone. ~berurah</p>
<p>First off, all one needs to do is read the "rejected" thread in the Rice Forum to know your daughter must be an INCREDBILE student. Congratulations!!</p>
<p>There is lots of good advice here. I would ABSOLUTELY go back & talk to Rice. They may improve their offer. I have helped kids I interviewed in this regard and it is not uncommon for a school to improve its offer. Even if grant is same, they can hook her up with the best kind of workstudy. Plus there may be miscellaneous small scholarships out there for her.</p>
<p>While $115K vs $60K is a big total difference, it can also be broken down into a $14K <em>per year</em> difference. </p>
<p>Your D can surely contribute via summer job & work study, bringing the per-year difference well inside $10K. After college, this can be <em>her</em> responsibility, to pay off that last <$40K (whatever the difference is). I waitressed during college, and made about $200-300/week working 2-3 nights at a fancy place. A job like this plus FT employment during the summers nearly covers it.</p>
<p>If I was you, I would give my child the choice. If going to Rice is more important to her than the extra working & increased debt, then she should go.</p>
<p>I think that, "Work hard and it will pay off" doesn't mean that a kid is guaranteed to get into their dream school or to get the amount of money that it would take to go there. It simply means that they will have far more options than if they didn't work hard.</p>
<p>Think about our own lives. I bet that all of us do and have worked hard. That doesn't mean that if our childhood dreams were living in mansions, being waited on hand and foot, having luxury cars and traveling around the world first class that we've attained those dreams. Still, we have worked hard and probably have attained much more than we would have if we had just sat on our butts doing nothing.</p>
<p>Anyway, Isandin, your daughter has some wonderful options including a variety of college admissions and even some offering some impressive merit aid. if Rice is so important to her that she'd choose to pass up those other nice offers, she could take out the hefty loans and work to make up the difference and pay off the loans.</p>
<p>That's truly what it means when one says, "Work hard and it will pay off." </p>
<p>I am posting from the perspective of a person who did work hard in h.s., including working a job 20 hours a week senior year, and working 60 hours a week the summer after senior year. I also worked summers and during the school year during college -- plus took out loans to go to my dream school.</p>
<p>I worked hard -- academically and in the work force -- and it paid off for me. I don't resent the fact that my parents and grandparents couldn't foot the costs that I had to work to pay for. I am just very, very grateful that I was able to get into my dream school and that there was a way for me to pay for it.</p>
<p>I could have gone to a lesser ranked college for much cheaper, but I chose my dream school and have never regretted making that choice. I am just very happy that I was in a position to choose. </p>
<p>Your daughter could choose any of the options that she has. This depends on her own priorities. IMO there is no reason for you to feel guilty for not being able to foot all of the bill for Rice. Most students who go to college don't have parents and grandparents who are able to contribute so much that costs are no factor. A big reason why, for example, more students don't post on College Confidential is because costs are the reason that many students' "choice" is to live at home and go to whatever college is commuting distance --even if that's a community college and they have the stats for a 4-year college.</p>
<p>Am I the only one here who decided not to pay 40K for prestige? (more than 50K per yr when you figure tax breaks for retirement plans). Who thinks their kid can be an intellectual, have an interesting, culturally rich and value inspired life or even a very well- paid life without the same elite private schools?</p>
<p>I believe there was a long thread about kids who chose state schools over paying a bunch of money.</p>
<p>WORKING HARD AND ACHIEVING IS NOT THE EQUIVALENT TO PRICEY PRIVATE SCHOOL. </p>
<p>Why on earth would you want your kids to think this?</p>
<p>I hate to pick so much on Rice, but at the night time law school where I went there were dozens of Rice alums. They don't all turn out to be Masters of the Unverse. Nobody thought too much about where they went, though they got razzed at times for their perfromance in the SouthWest Conference.</p>
<p>Last post on IMHO relatively mindless elitism for awhile. I swear.</p>
<p>Texdad, Southwestern and Rice can't even be mentioned in the same breath. Southwestern is a good, small LAC. Rice is a fantastic university and is a real tuition bargain compared to most of the "prestigious" schools. I am so impressed with the students and the faculty there. It is not the kind of school someone chooses just for prestige. Check out all the threads wondering why it might be underrated and not as recognized in the northeast. The education my D is getting at Rice in her field is NOT something she could get at UT or most other large state universities.</p>
<p>I think I've tried to emphasize to my kids that if they can use merit money for undergrad it will mean that they can much more readily take on debt for grad school (assuming we won't be paying for grad school). When we look at the total picture it will be impossible for us to turn down good scholarship offers just because one of my kids might prefer to go to some other school. I think my son understood at the outset that he had to pick the schools he applied to with the understanding that he might actually end up at any one of them. I'm trying to be really careful to not impress him with my own biases (good thing he had NO interest in CC). No spreading the funk! :D</p>
<p>So...this is one of those trudged five miles through the snow to school, and 5 miles further to return the lost penny stories...</p>
<p>When I was in high school (traveling an hour and half on a mininum of two subway trains and a bus to get to school): on Friday afternoons (having brought the necessary clothes to school), I'd take the train to the Port Authority Bus Terminal and jump on a Trailways Bus to any of a number of Catskill resorts, get off the bus, and run into the dining room to set up my tables as a waiter or busboy for 7 p.m. dinner. I wouldn't get to sleep unitl midnight. I'd get up at 5:30 to get my station ready for breakfast, would work until midnight (we had to take care of the cocktail lounge and ballroom, though I was too young to serve drinks), up at 5:30 again for breakfast, serve lunch, clean up the dining room, jump back on a bus, and, with any luck, be home at 8 p.m. All homework was done on the bus - and there was a lot of it! (This was Stuyvesant.) Then during the summers I'd work the same, only 7 days a week, no days off (you could pay someone to work for you, but you could never find a sub), 14 hours a day - for a 98-hour work week. That's how I paid for Williams. (Perhaps surprisingly, I made more as a waiter as a 17-year old than I made 10 years after college graduation.)</p>
<p>I got a great education in Eph country. Looking back at it, however, I may have gotten an even better education working the hotels so that I could pay for it.</p>
<p>Islandin, Eventually, most of us do come to that crossroad...and a difficult one to navigate. It is not about elitism, public vs private, large vs small, close or distant...but more about preference and fit. And, as many parents have confirmed...the college experience includes the education "outside" of the classroom as well. It just depends...</p>
<p>MomofWildChild, Rice is a good school. DS might have graced Rice with his app if it wasn't in the neighborhood and we didn't prefer UT Austin, which is also a great adventure, albeit of a different type.</p>
<p>I think it's also important to consider her area of interest. A French major is probably going to have a harder time paying off loans than an engineer. My neice borrowed what seemed like an astronomical amount of money for a six year Pharmacy Doc program. Her starting salary was $85K; she's having no problem with the payments. DH borrowed for his MIT S.B.; but that degree helped him convince someone else to pay for grad school.</p>