In a bit of a funk

<p>I know a philosophy major that started his own business, clearing over $300,000 a year, who has had no trouble paying off his loans. No, it wasn't a "philosophy business," but he's convinved that the training in logic and critical thinking that was verbally based, rather than just mathematically, made a huge difference in his life and in his ability to be successful.</p>

<p>I wonder what a philosophy business would be like....</p>

<p>Sai Baba.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.sathyasai.org/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.sathyasai.org/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>There's even an on-line quiz:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.saibaba.ws/teachings/quiz/quiz.htm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.saibaba.ws/teachings/quiz/quiz.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>(doesn't say whether he attended an Ivy, or a LAC....I'm thinking Rice....)</p>

<p>To do well, though, you may need some proofs, as well as a degree:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.sailightandlove.org/arteng_avatar.htm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.sailightandlove.org/arteng_avatar.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>(It is very important to remember on what day you asked folks to wash their feet:</p>

<ol>
<li>What is the significance of the date 20-5-1940?</li>
</ol>

<p>Baba got up early in the morning, called the neighbours and relatives, materialised and distributed delicious Prasad. He asked the people to wash their feet and come in for worship.)</p>

<p>Im thinking *Lucy * in Peanuts?</p>

<p>Emerald, just my notion too. "Philosophy: 5 cents."</p>

<p>Your mention of U. of Miami reminded me of a story concerning a local student who went there on a merit scholarship. He lasted a year. Was a very capable student, I don't know what happened - adjustment to being away from home, workload, any number of things could have come up - but he was unable to maintain the high GPA required to maintain the merit money so he came back home. It made me realize that colleges that offer need based aid are sometimes the better choice, although we don't know that going into things. My point is just to be careful choosing a school because of a merit offer. Besides making sure it's a good fit in other ways, make sure you understand what is required to keep the merit money for all four years. I've gotten the impression that schools that offer merit money for high SAT and GPAs do it largely so they can boast of the stats of their incoming classes. If it works out, fine. The schools don't have much reason to provide the support some students need to make a successful transition to college. If possible, ask how many merit scholarship winners return, or if they can't tell you that, how much merit money is paid out to freshman, how much to upperclassmen and extrapolate.</p>

<p>
[quote]
EFC is out of this world ie we will have to borrow almost the entire amount to pay for any of these schools.

[/quote]

Rice is pretty generous with financial aid, and our EFC with them was a little bit lower than other schools. We find we can, barely, by being frugal and using a little of our meager savings, cover our EFC. I know all our financial situations are different, but why will you have to borrow all your EFC? If the school thinks you can pay, surely you have some available funds. I save about $250. a month on shampoo, food, misc. because daughter is at school - that's a couple thousand a school year right there.
And DD loves Rice and hasn't felt any "cut-throat" competition - just lots of great opportunities and close links with some of her profs after only one semester. I'm very familiar with UT - totally different scene. UT may work for my son, who wants to be anonymous in a huge 400 seat lecture hall taking mutiple choice tests from a TA. Wouldn't work for daughter.</p>

<p>PS. Congratulations to your daughter for her Rice acceptance!!!! I hope all the money works out and she can attend. If not, she'll get a good education at the other schools also.</p>

<p>It sounds like the OP might have a little bit of "Financial Need" as defined by the University. (I'm guessing from the Rice 4-year cost figures..) Sometimes it works out better to go with a school that estimates a lower EFC and costs more than a school with a merit only award. DD was awarded $15000 merit from a nice LAC, but they figured our EFC way higher than any of the other schools she applied to. We figured out that niceLAC would end up costing a lot more than Rice because in year 2 the award would still be $15000. but tuition/fees would have risen $2000., year 3 $4000., year 4 $6000. (Just my guess at tuition/fees increase...) NiceLAC would have ended up costing us $12000. more at least. If you have even a little "Need", your need will increase as the tuition/fees costs rise, assuming your income stays the same. And need-based aid won't disappear due to a GPA below 3.0 or whatever.</p>

<p>I know that this is a difficult thing to see your child so happy to get exactly what she wanted, having worked for it, and with the acceptance in hand, having to bring up the bogey man in the background that could snatch the whole thing from her. There are several things you can do, and they do all involve a lot of work and sacrifice. You and H need to go over the budget very, very carefully and see what you can eke out. You need to go on a very strict budget as you are now working towards a goal. Get to the library and see what you can find in books about penny pinching. You then have to talk to your daughter about the situation. She needs to take a deep breath, see what she can give up in highschool ECs, maybe even drop a course and find a job for weekends, school breaks, after school. She also needs to tighten the belt. As Mini posts, young people can do the work. Like Mini, I worked several jobs for many years to make ends meet. My kids worked double , triple jobs including waitressing, giving private sports, music lessons, tutoring, all big bucks per hour that can be squeezed in the main jobs. And then she needs to find out how she can bring down that cost in college. What does ROTC pay? THere is no military commitment for the first two years. Once she is at the school she can find out all the different job options. Then, there is the loan option. $30K a year can be done with $10K in loans split between parent and child, $10K in hard work and savings between parents and child, and $10K in cash that I assume you were planning to pay for college.</p>

<p>To add to what the previous posters said, another route is for the student to get an RA position after the first year. This usually provides free room and board. And like Anxious mom said, home costs go down when the student is away.</p>

<p>We have instigated big austerity moves so that our kids can have the choices they earned. We basically live on half our income, and pay school with the other half. This means we drive really old cars, take only a very inexpensive local vacation, wear discount clothes (and wear them out), grow a lot of our veggies (in an urban area), and generally live beneath our means. We have found that not wanting much stuff is very freeing, and gives us more choices.</p>

<p>Our kids know that they can make do with less. They have never had cars. They went to a mediocre public school, no summer programs. My D buys her clothes secondhand. When she wanted to go abroad while in college, she took on several jobs to pay for it.</p>

<p>I don't mean that any of these things are things you should do, only, to second Jamimom, to suggest that maybe there are ways to squeeze more money out of a budget than first seems.</p>

<p>when I wanted to transfer to a better school, eons ago, they offered no aid. But my mom, a widow living hand to mouth, never said I couldn't go. I worked a couple jobs, lived in a dorm where we did the cooking and cleaning so it cost less, and took out loans. Mom took out loans, too. I have alway felt blessed that she didn't tell me it was impossible.</p>

<p>Isandin, I want to congratulate your daughter on all of those acceptances. She must be quiite a special young lady. It always hurts to read about these situations, because as a mom, I know how it feels to want things for one's child. </p>

<p>Jami</p>

<p>LH of dog---</p>

<p>I don't know where you got your story, but I think that the GPA requirement for scholarship recipients at University of Miami is quite liberal. I'm not sure if they ratchet up the bar for the 3/4 or full ride, but I do know for a fact that for the 1/2 tuition scholarship (my D got that), unless the wheels really fall off, you're pretty much guaranteed into year 2. Then, if the GPA is 3.0 or higher at the end of that year, it's guaranteed for year 3 & 4. If it's 2.7-2.99, there's a probationary period in year 3. If it's below 2.7, the scholarship is rescinded.</p>

<p>D hasn't decided whether to attend UM, but if she does, she will know upfront about our expectations. A straight 'A' kid in HS without a killer course load should be able to do a 3.0, even in a setting such as Miami's.</p>

<p>I got the story from the horse's mouth, but didn't feel it was my place to press for details on 'why you screwed up'. Many a straight 'A' kid in high school has a bumpy first year in college. I am in no way implying that the op's child is headed for trouble, merely wanted to point out that unanticipated things happen, and it's wise to fully check out the requirements for maintaining merit aid (at any school, not just Miami) when the family's finances are such that that will probably be the deciding factor in where the student matriculates. Did not in any way mean to cast aspersions on U. of Miami, the name just triggered a memory and, to repeat myself, the caution stands for any school offering merit aid - be sure you are fully aware of the conditions beforehand.</p>

<p>In life sometimes 'should' just doesn't work out, despite all our plans.</p>

<p>LHand---</p>

<p>Agreed. Most of us have our firstborns headed off wherever this fall, and while we think we know our kids, whotheheck knows what will happen when they get there. All we can do is advise them, make sure they don't bite off more than they can chew, and let 'em go.</p>

<p>Another saving money option is living off-campus. At Rice that results in a saving of about $1500. - $2000. a year if your kid is frugal... (but it is a good idea to live on campus the first year, just to get fully integrated in the school). There are ways to make things cheaper and earn more if there is the desire. I would recommend that your daughter attends admitted student days at her top choices if possible, and then she can determine what it is worth to her to attend whichever is her top choice...</p>

<p>I kind of know what the OP is talking about. My parents told me that they could afford to give me a set amount of money for higher education - which wasn't as much as our EFC thought they should pay. My grandparents made up part of the difference, but I am responsible for the rest. This is part of the reason that I chose Rice over the Ivies and other private schools - it seems to be a much better value. For me, working my way through college, and taking on some small amount of debt was worth it.
It might be best to tell your daughter what you are prepared to pay, and see if she is willing to make up the difference.</p>

<br>


<br>

<p>Funny....I'm HOPING my daughter will get an offer next year that will mean we are paying only 70K for four years. That would be wonderful....less than the cost per year of our state U.</p>

<p>I just want to say that my son turned down his first choice - a college that by that time he had his heart set on attending - because of lack of financial aid. We did explore possibilities for supplementing with independent aid, such as applying for local scholarships -- but in the meantime, my son's 2nd choice college accepted him with a very generous award.</p>

<p>The truth is that my son soured somewhat on choice #1, because the implicit message was that they didn't "like" him nearly as much as choice #2 -- and who wants to go where they're not appreciated? I would say that my son got over the disappointment very quickly. The first choice college offered to put him on a wait list for financial aid, and to refund our deposit if the aid didn't come through... but we didn't even bother. He flew out for a visit for to choice #2 (a college he wasn't going to bother to visit, because we had assumed all along that it was out of reach financially) -- and came back with the college #2 t-shirt. </p>

<p>I think it is always disappointing when we don't get something we were hoping for, whether it is financial aid or being accepted in the first place.... but that is life. Finances will always force us to make choices based on pragmatism and expediency.</p>

<p>I honestly don't know why the college decision seems so difficult for parents. I am sure that most of us have been saying "no" to all sorts of purchases our kids wanted, going back to that first tantrum in the grocery store aisle -- the college thing really is no different. We know what we can afford to pay or to borrow; we hope that financial aid will come through, but "hope" is not something to count on; we encourage our kids to apply to a range of colleges, including safeties, precisely because we are trying to ensure that some of the schools will be affordable. </p>

<p>I do think that we probably stress over this more than our kids. The truth is that our kids are kind of scared of the choice they are making -- even if they seem to have their heart set on a particular college, inside they are worrying about whether that college is the right choice for them, whether it is too far away, or the work will be too difficult, whether they will be truly happy there. And the kids do feel concerned about what college is costing their parents. So I think that when a kid has to let go of college #1 to choose from a set of other, perfectly acceptable colleges -- it is an idea that they can get used to very quickly if we let them.</p>

<p>One thing my son said to me when he was visiting colleges is that he could see that each college had its own set of strengths. Even a college that he did not particularly want to attend turned out to offer a few things that he thought he would like and didn't see at the other colleges ... so he knew that he would be able to find something positive about any of the colleges he applied to. Sometimes in the long run, in life, we are better off for the choices that we didn't make -- one thing leads to another, and in the end, looking back, we see that our lives were shaped in many ways by unexpected events and opportunities.</p>

<p>Calmom - thanks for this thoughtful and wise post :) !</p>

<p>"We were really, really hoping to come out better than we did on the FAFSA, but it seems like my hard-working spouse did us in this year, even though his base salary is low enough to qualify us for all kinds of need-based aid.</p>

<p>My son had his sights on some elite schools, but I doubt that he'll even be accepted to any. He did add a few schools to his list at the last minute, Univ. of Miami being one of them, and from the look of things, he just <em>may</em> qualify for full tuition (he's top 1% of his class and had a 34 on the ACT which are the qualifications..."</p>

<p>I don't understand why you are thinking his hard work didn't pay off. There are probably hundreds of colleges in this country that he could attend, including many that would be eager to give him merit aid, and that also would be colleges with good environments and academic reputations.</p>

<p>That is how his hard work paid off -- by expanding his options.</p>

<p>Hard work doesn't guarantee that a student will get into a place like HPYS, but it does virtually guarantee that a student will have more options than they would have if they didn't work hard.</p>

<p>Most of us work very hard on our jobs. Few of us, though, will get to be Fortune 500 executives, college presidents, heads of foundations, heads of state agencies, etc. Few of us ever will work our dream jobs, live in our dream homes, experience all of our dream vacations plus earn the large amount of money that our energy and hard work "deserves." </p>

<p>Still, most of us will be reasonably happy in our jobs and will feel decently compensated. We are not so unrealistic that we assume that just because we work hard, we'll obtain every part of our dreams. We know that our hard work is paying off in a better life than we would have had if we hadn't bothered to do our best.</p>

<p>The same is true for students and their college options.</p>

<p>You know, now that I think about it, perhaps when we parents worry about our kids not being able to go to their dream schools what is bothering us most is the fact that we can't obtain our dream of being able to give our kids their college dreams. I don't think there's a correlation between being a good parent and being able to send one's kid to their dream school. I do think there's a correlation between being a good parent and launching a child who can rise above disappointments and has the flexibility to be able to succeed in a variety of environments.</p>