My son was in 5th or 6th grade, when he asked me the BIG question. That is, if he continued to work hard and do well in school, would he be able to go to A dream school, like MIT or Harvard? My response, was if you get in, I’ll find a way.
It is so hard to squash a child’s dream when they are young. back then, financial aid to many colleges were not as generous as they are now.
My kid worked on his list with his guidance counselor at small private school. I had very little input except at the end when I thought he needed a few more safety schools. I was wrong in hindsight- he had way more safety schools then he needed.
Where to go was 100% his choice - just like my parents allowed me to choose (and I chose the wrong one.) if I had to do it over again I never wouid have gone to Big Party U instead of LAC.
All of the colleges to which my son and daughter applied were acceptable to us, the parents. If the colleges hadn’t met most of the agreed-upon screening criteria prior to applications, the kids wouldn’t have applied to them. Financial aid was not a criterion, so this factor, which I suspect is typically more important to the parents than the children, was not a factor at all in the final decisions. We’re not rich; far from it. But with our savings and help from the grandparents we had enough to get the kids through any college.
For #1 (son), although he received significant to trivial merit scholarship offers from 4 of the 6 colleges to which he was admitted (largest sums were from the two in-state public institutions), we didn’t discuss money. He was mainly concerned with fit and the larger environment (major league city, as in major league sports). He hadn’t even visited 4 of the 6 before admission, and in the end he never visited one of the 6. When he made his first ever visit to UChicago and did an overnight there on “admitted students’ day,” it was settled. “How do you like Chicago?” we asked the next morning. “This will do,” he said. We wouldn’t have objected had he chosen any of the others. Chicago was my first choice, but had he chosen one of the others we’d have gone with his choice.
For #2 (daughter), merit money was awarded at two of the colleges that she was admitted to. Again, not a factor in the decision. She never visited 3 of the 5 schools that admitted her (no rejections), although at the last moment she said she wanted to visit one of those three and I told her it was impractical then (I had work obligations). And so, after consulting a family friend (an illustrator and children’s book author) who asked, “Why not RISD? It’s the best, isn’t it?” the final decision was made and there were no regrets. RISD always was her first choice, and it was ours, too.
If you are paying for it, then you can IMHO refuse to pay for a university that is too expensive or that is just a terrible choice for some reason. As others have mentioned I also vetoed their taking loans, on the basis that they wouldn’t be able to pay them off and I would be stuck with the bill.
If your daughter or son is going to go to the classes, do the homework, take the exams, and live in the dorms, then they have to be comfortable with whatever choice they make.
It appears that my daughter is probably about to go to the university that would have been my second choice. It is however a very good choice, I can afford it, and she gets to make the decision.
We’re not at that point yet, but I think it’s probably a good idea for parents to be okay with each of the schools that the child applies to. I hope to have some input into where D applies. Things that I would have a strong opinion on are whether the school is in a safe area and whether the school is helpful with job placements when they graduate. Otherwise, I think the students should decide what size school they want, the kind of vibe they are looking for and whether they want to be in a certain location. Also, it goes without saying that money matters (if that’s an issue) need to be discussed beforehand. In all honesty, I have already given my opinion about two things, but I guess I will be flexible when it comes closer to applying. I told my D that I don’t want her to go to California (we’re in NYC) and I don’t think it would be ideal for her to go to a huge school (30,000+). After going on a couple of tours she came to the decision herself that she likes smaller schools. Thank goodness!
I believe the college admission process is an opportunity to teach students how to make major decisions. Having open discussions about costs, values, and opportunities along with encouraging research, visits, and pros/cons lists are great tools to develop skills they can continue to apply to their lives once they are in college. So to that end the decision while theirs is also a partnership.
@SugarlessCandy, I agree with you for the most part. But let’s say your kid did the research and came up with a list of schools that included, say BYU and Bob Jones University. Would you really say it was 100% the kid’s decision? My kids picked their own schools, but if a school like that had been on the list, I would have vetoed it.
A question to the question which is the answer: Who will be attending the college? I always tell my students, I can’t attend for you, I can’t study for you, I can’t do the work for you. I’m not the one who will be living in the dorm, or taking the class.
It was messy and unpleasant for us and D16. Our finances were shifting sands, and I made some mistakes along the way in regards to realizing what we were really willing to pay, and getting accurate numbers in our spreadsheet to estimate net cost of attendance. Regretably, we sent her some mixed messages, and secretly hoped reason would win out and/or the (unaffordable) schools would not accept her.
On top of all that, she was so starry-eyed about going to an elite private, and she could not wrap her head around our low budget & refused to consider many of the affordable schools on the long list.
In addition, she had a full ride offer on the table, for a school she didn’t love, but also didn’t hate, and this school was not nearly as far away as the others. When we (parents) were staring at the four year cost of the full ride, versus the four year cost of the full tuition scholarships, we couldn’t justify paying that much more for the other (full tuition only) schools.
At one point, she was angry at us for “not allowing her to borrow the money herself” to go to one of the elite privates. And then angry that she’s “the only one of my friends that didn’t get to choose where they went to college”. She went to a private high school with a lot of affluent families.
If I could do it all over again, knowing what I know now, I’d had approached it all differently. I didn’t anticipate her being so…irrational…about huge amounts of money, which to my mind, look around, is so clear we don’t have.
Ultimately both parties have a role – (1) the parents can say “You are going to ABC college and you are taking XYZ scholarship” (whether you like or not being implicit), and the kid might go along with that choice enthusiastically, reluctantly, or not at all (e.g. dropping out without telling the parents, or something).
(2) the student can say “I am going to MNO university (whether you like it or not)” and the parents can go along with that choice enthusiastically, reluctantly, or not all (e.g. withholding all funding, or something).
@toowonderful The good news from my perspective is that most of the advice has been in the form of asking questions. Things like, what type of relationship do you want with professors, how big is too big as far as classrooms go, do you want a “brand name” when you graduate or do you want someone to say, I’ve heard of that, it’s really hard to get in. She has also gotten contradictory advice, which I point to when she talks about reputation. Since her top 2 are so well known, albeit in different circles, I think it’s good that she’s seeing subjectivity. I already know in my heart which she’s going to choose, but she has to work through it. In case your interested, it’s Kalamazoo College and Michigan State University.
@NCMOM24 - this is what I was getting at earlier. I was coming at this from the perspective that we already had raised our pups to be able to make important decisions, but I get that some parents might not be ready to trust their offspring’s decision-making capability yet…
For most parents, the entire process today is very different than when we went through it, and it was helpful to my S and D to hear me tell them that I understood I might not be able to give solid advice because they know more about some of this than dad or I do.
If you had to do it over again, would you have sent her to that high school or to a different one that was not dripping with so much affluence?
It seems that the socialization aspects of being surrounded by affluence could lead to spendy attitudes and habits that could lead to future problems with personal finances.
I gave your question quite a bit of thought when I was walking the dog!
Of course, I don’t know how everything would have turned out if we had sent her to our local public HS or a different private HS in the area. We made the best decision we could at the time, with what we knew and the resources we could scrape together.
Yes, I suspect her desire to go to an elite private and her lack of grasping & accepting our financial position had something to do with the atmoshere at her private HS.
On the other hand, it seems to me that this narrative runs deep in our culture, no matter what kind of high school. Work hard, take rigorous courses, get great grades, great tests scores, check off your ECs…and you will be one of The Chosen Ones in the Admissions Rat Race. Who talks about affordability?
But yes, being at a private with mostly affluent families might skew the narrative even further, regarding what is considered a good school and what is considered a bad school, with big jumps and assumptions about how good or bad your life will then (be guaranteed to) turn out.
For example, she would not even consider visiting ASU on fly-out invite, because, in her mind, ASU is not a good school. That sort of thinking is no doubt a product of the school’s atmosphere and the woven narrative.
She also told us that it was hard for her because she sensed adults (GC, teachers, parents) were disappointed upon hearing where she’d be going. There was this lingering, “Poor girl. You could do so much better.” She’s no dummy. She knows if she was naming a Top 20 instead, there’d be confetti and fireworks shooting out of their butts, right?
I know we broke one of the Golden CC Rules by allowing her to apply to a top school we could not afford without selling a kidney. There was a lot of heart ache, and anger directed my way. It might be easy to conclude that was a big mistake, but then again, she will always know she was “good enough” and was accepted; the only thing that kept her from going was lack of money (& our unwilliness to take out insane loans).
The other thing about being a mere mortal in a school filled with affluent families, is that she had the opportunity to see that no matter how much or little money you have, you’re human, and there will be good things about your life and bad things about your life.
When she went on her Kairos retreat, she listened to classmates open up about a whole range of problems and realized that even those classmates who seemed to “have everything” and were “perfect” had, well, struggles and problems and some were quite serious.
So, in the end, I’d say we took the good with the bad. She was well-prepared for college-level work at her HS. Maybe she wouldn’t have gotten that free ride scholarship if she had attended elsewhere? I’ll never know.
We helped D develop a list Junior year that included safeties likely to give strong merit aid, low-matches we thought she would have a decent chance of receiving at least a small amount of merit, high matches that were within the budget, and 2 high reaches - both of which we would have to make some serious (yet possible) lifestyle adjustments to make a reality. So far, she has been accepted to all except for the 2 high reaches (she applied RD). Results came in mostly spot on to what we expected with 1 curveball of a low-match offering her $0 merit (bottom of her list, so no loss). Once the decisions were in, we made a spreadsheet together and looked at the cost vs. fit and a variety of other factors. IMO, she chose the best fit and school for the cost. (Her dad and I were also pulling for this school in secret.)
She had far cheaper options that weren’t a good fit. Our state flagship was not a good fit, and none of us liked it on either of the 2 visits we made. She narrowed it down to 4 schools - including the flagship she didn’t like, the best merit school, her original favorite based on environment (but with weaker academics) and the OOS school that she ultimately choose. One day, she said “Mom, I know where I want to go and I am positive about my decision. I’ve thought about it a lot and I can’t picture myself anywhere else.” That’s all we needed to know.
Vetting the schools and setting budgetary parameters and expectations are important. I feel that parents need to play a role in this area. However, I think the final decision ultimately has to be up to the child, and they need to feel like the school is a great fit - after all, they are the ones that will be attending.
For all of our kids it has been their choice, within budgetary constraints.
For the oldest 2, their top choice just so happened to be in budget for one (one and done) and just at the upper edge of budget for the other (ED so basically one and done). Which meant the process for kid #3 was quite a bit different and also had a bit of a different budget due to different funding sources (less funding).
He was provided with 2 budgets. The debt free option or the work summers/school year and take your federal limit of loans options. The latter was offered as an option based on his desire for a certain type of school in certain locations and the reality that his stats would not garner merit in the amounts that would make them debt free options. I had my own student loans in college, and worked and support kids having some skin in the game. Within reason. With his parameters we put together a list that met, or had a chance of meeting (with merit) one of the 2 budgets.
Going into this he was pretty starry eyed and confident in his ability to work or pay off loans and we modeled what that would look like. He has managed a job with heavy EC’s and done relatively well and so we felt confident letting him explore this as an option.
In the past 2 months he has struggled with a class (dropping it for 2nd semester) and seen a friend make a disastrous financial decision at his college which resulted in a withdrawal and a transcript being held for failure to pay. Both were wake up calls that any kind of parental prep could never have provided. While me might love one of the more expensive schools more and it might provide some greater career advantages he is coming to the conclusion on his own that the debt free option will serve him far better in the long run. He’s also come to the conclusion that things don’t always go as planned and maybe being across the country is a little bit scarier than first thought and he might really like knowing we aren’t terribly far away if anything happens. Either way it will be his choice at this point but he is leaning towards the responsible one and that’s rewarding to see. At times it is mildly frustrating knowing how much work was put in to have him end up at the in state safety but…if that’s what made him fall in love with it, without regrets and what if’s…it was well worth it.
@eastcoascrazy Right about the co-sign of loans which makes it easy to limit choices financially. We simply said we won’t do it so figure out something in our parameters.
Perhaps it’s because I was hugely independent myself, but put me down on the side of student’s life, student’s choice from among the affordable options.
I certainly had a huge role in getting my D’s to the point where they could make an informed well thought out decision, but the decisions were not mine to make.
There is no one from my area (and probably west of the Mississippi) who would think UKy is a better choice than ASU, unless that person was a basketball player and even then…
It is very regional, but in the west ASU is considered a very good school.
@rosered55 Yes, I would make the child rescind a commitment given substantial financial setback. Its just not fair to anyone to be bound to an agreement once the situation changes.