<p>Hey there. So, I was planning on applying to Yale. I have authored papers in Math and would like to submit them to Yale. Went to Yale's website and here's what they have to say:</p>
<p>"If you have been engaged in advanced scientific research, you should consider requesting a letter of recommendation from a research mentor who has been involved personally with your scientific work. The letter should be mailed to us directly from the mentor and include your full, legal name as it appears in your application and the name and state or country of your high school. If your research incorporated work from many individuals, or was part of a larger project, please indicate what specific contributions you made to the project. If you contributed to a paper on the work, you may also submit a research abstract or a full paper for possible review by a member of Yales science faculty. Full papers are generally more useful than abstracts."</p>
<p>Now, is there a way for me to submit my work without a Letter since I don't have a mentor? I come from a country where it's rather impossible to get a mentor like this. Or is Yale going to consider my work subpar because I don't have a mentor?</p>
<p>I believe you can just mail it in without a rec letter from your mentor. I sent my research papers separate from my mentors rec letter to the colleges I’m applying to. I don’t believe it will look sub-par because you don’t have a mentor. In fact, it might look better because you did it all on your own without guidance or help. Also, a faculty member will review it so that won’t be an issue. Just make sure it looks and sounds professional and is accurate. Copy format and style from a scientific journal if needed.</p>
<p>Mathjj: If you read “between the lines” on Yale’s website: if you have a mentor for your research project, then you should have them submit a letter, as it will corroborate your research and strengthen your application. </p>
<p>Conversely, If you do not have a mentor, or if your paper has not been published, then you probably should NOT submit it, as other applicant’s will have the backing and full support of their mentors, and yours will not. You should also pay attention to other information on Yale’s website, specifically</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>FWIW: As you also have a similar thread posted in the Harvard forum, you should understand that Yale’s advice, also applies to Harvard. And vice-versa. As I said on Harvard’s thread, 99% of students should NOT submit any supplemental materials, as it detract from the required elements of your file. And the 1% that should submit supplementary need to show a high level of talent, which the majority of time requires having a mentor and/or having your research accepted for publication by a respected journal.</p>
<p>If your research paper was published in a national or international journal, a publication that I could google and find your name and the title of your research paper listed among their files – then yes, submit the research to Yale and Harvard, even without a mentor.</p>
<p>Anything less is NOT going to be competitive with the caliber of student that applies to Harvard and Yale, and could hurt your chances. In that case, you would be better off writing about your passion for the subject in your supplemental essay, rather than submitting your research paper with your application.</p>
<p>@Gibby, thank you! But I can’t name the Journal or I’ll lose my anonymity :3
But, I’m curious about one thing: certain seminal papers aren’t even published. (For example, have a look at Grigory Perelman’s work on Ricci flow which eventually won him CMI’s 1 million dollar prize {that he refused}). Now, certain kids write great papers but don’t get them published. What about them?</p>
<p>If a student submits a research paper, then an Admissions Director is going to try to google the applicant and find a link to the work. If nothing turns up on google because the work was never published, they’ll probably focus on the required parts of the application, disregarding the research paper, as there will be no verifiable proof that the applicant actually wrote the material. The other option is for the Admissions Director to call an applicant’s high school and speak with their guidance counselor and recommendation writers, trying to gauge the authenticity of the submitted materials. Admissions Director’s would rather miss another Grigory Perelman than admit another potential faker.</p>
<p>Yale is NOT going to consider your work subpar because you do not have a mentor. Yale will consider your work subpar if it IS subpar. It is great for a high schooler to pursue his/her research interests, and be proud of the achievements. It is an entirely different thing to be over-confident, or even arrogant.</p>
<p>You are NOT Grigori Perelman. Period. If you were even remotely close to his level, you do not need to apply to, but rather be chased by, Yale/Harvard/whatever schools.</p>
<p>I don’t think your research would be ‘bad’, per se. But the fact that you don’t have a mentor raises a red flag. You must be cognizant of the competition you are facing. Kids who have worked for years on their research (who will probably be winning Intel) are your competitors in the application pool, if you choose to send the paper. There is a certain style of scientific writing and objectivity that you don’t learn in your AP English class. These kids who are submitting papers have professional scientists editing their papers and have participated in ultra selective programs such as RSI and MITES. </p>
<p>If you were to proceed and submit the paper, the admissions department, assuming that you are seriously being considered, would then forward it to the germane scientific department. The department would then rate it and give feedback. If they rate it as ‘average’ (relative to all of the papers they’ve seen professionally), then the admissions committee would consider you as such.</p>
<p>@PCHope, lol, calm yourself I never said I’m Perelman, hahaha. I’m just talking about those kids who write seminal papers but don’t get them published. For example, if student X has written an absolutely groundbreaking paper by November and submits to (say) Annals or Acta or DMJ, he/she certainly isn’t going to get a decision by December. (DISCLAIMER: PLEASE REALIZE THAT CHARACTER X IS TRULY FICTIONAL AND BARES NO RESEMBLANCE TO ANYONE LIVING OR DEAD, AND THAT INCLUDES ME!) Now, such a paper has not been published but that does not take anything away from the paper’s level right?</p>
<p>I just cited Grigory’s example to validate my point that maybe, even some great papers are not published :)</p>
<p>I appreciate your inputs. Considering what you’ve said, the best way to know the competence of my paper would be by comparing it to those of ISEF/STS/RSI award-recipients, right? If I’m not wrong, you’re saying (as Gibby said before) that my papers will be ‘compared’ to such papers, right?</p>
<p>@Gibby, LOL Wheeler is a different case totally xD
So, unpublished papers are deemed fake or atleast treated with suspicion? is that what you mean?</p>
<p>Fwiw, my son’s paper, submitted to Siemens, was not professionally edited, and was barely mentored (i.e., it was entirely his work). Perhaps that’s why he didn’t win or even place. He also did not attend RSI or MITES. In spite of those handicaps, he was still accepted to Yale. </p>
<p>I believe the paper was mentioned in his mentor’s LOR, but haven’t read the recommendation so I can’t be sure. OP, I think that’s a better route to recognition: have someone else toot your horn.</p>
<p>Yes. If you DO NOT have the support of a mentor, a professional adult in the field of study, who writes a letter in support of your unpublished research, Admissions has no way of knowing that the work is truly of a student’s own creation. An applicant could have worked on the project by themselves, collaborated with others, or could have plagiarized the work of someone else. Therefore, Admissions will look upon an unpublished research project WITHOUT a mentor with suspicion and will most likely disregard the research paper entirely, as there is no teacher, professor, or professional to vouch for it’s authenticity. </p>
<p>I don’t know how many times I can say the same thing – someone who DOES NOT have a mentor SHOULD NOT submit an unpublished research paper. It’s a complete waste of an applicant’s time (let alone the Admissions Officer’s) and the applicant should be concentrating on the required portions of their application. End of discussion, at least from my point of view.</p>
<p>@Gibby, alright, I understand. But don’t they have like those plagiarism-checking softwares? I thought they might have those…
On a related note, a lot of other things on the Common App are ‘unverified.’ In fact most things are unverified right? Except probably transcripts, test scores and recommendations, they don’t have official proof of things like XYZ Essay Competition or 300 hours of social service. So are these things neglected too?</p>
<p>@mathjj @Gibby I wrote a research proposal for a company that does communications for military drones around the world. It’s for satellite throughput and link quality testing on an Inmarsat-v (and a separate aircraft test)and we’ll be conducting testing in Venice in 2014. The people at this multi multi million dollar company used stuff I wrote for briefings and to incorporate into their own papers. Hearing about how amazing these papers need to be to submit them I’m wondering if I should submit mine. It’s 10 pages of writing and 17 of data/graphs/figures. Now keep in mind it’s just a proposal at this point. </p>
<ol>
<li>Should I submit my research proposal on satellite communications? </li>
<li>I have 2 mentors. 1 from last year who already sent a rec letter (not sending that paper in but I’ll probably send the abstract). My current mentors however hasn’t sent a rec letter to any colleges. Should I get him to as well? He’s a regional alumni head for a different college (one I’m still applying to) and I thought it might be harmful to ask him to send a rec letter to colleges other than his alma mater. Thoughts? I can google docs the paper or something if u’d like to see it to let me know. I’d appreciate any advice very much.</li>
</ol>
My son had a similar situation, and there was no problem getting a suitable LOR. If the recommender has a problem with it, they should say so, but I think it would be pretty shabby if the recommendation applies only to his school.</p>
I never said I’m Perelman, hahaha. I’m just talking about those kids who write seminal papers but don’t get them published. For example, if student X has written an absolutely groundbreaking paper by November and submits to (say) Annals or Acta or DMJ, he/she certainly isn’t going to get a decision by December. (DISCLAIMER: PLEASE REALIZE THAT CHARACTER X IS TRULY FICTIONAL AND BARES NO RESEMBLANCE TO ANYONE LIVING OR DEAD, AND THAT INCLUDES ME!) Now, such a paper has not been published but that does not take anything away from the paper’s level right?</p>