Input on premed bio schedule+a "B" cc course

Pre-Med & Medical School Pre-Med Topics
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<p>I will also post my questions under the parent forum, if allowed.</p>

<p>Hi all, my DS will tryout as a premed bio major this fall. </p>

<p>1)Please advise on his class schedules, especially his freshman semesters. The other years are still in a very rough draft stage. He took AP Bio(5/2-As) HS sophomore year, AP Chem(4/2-Bs), Cal BC(5/2-Bs), AP Physics(?/1-A,1-B) but not planning to use any AP credits. Since son is weak in Chem (and Eng writing too), I don't want him to double up on chem+bio/English during his freshman first semester. I am aware of the number of premed courses needed to finish before taking the new 2015 MCAT(including biochem, physiology, psychology, sociology), which he is planning for 2nd semester junior year. I also understand son should have a lighter load during Junior 2nd semester and Senior year for MCAT preparation and applications.
Are these the correct courses to take and in the right combinations? Thank you so much for helping.</p>

<p>Freshman: 1st sem: Gen Chem 1(5cr); Cal 1(5 cr); Sociology (3 cr); College Survey (mandatory)(1 cr) = total 14 cr
Freshman: 2nd sem: Gen Chem 2(5cr); Intro Bio 1(4 cr); Eng 1(3cr); Statistics (3 cr) = total 15 cr</p>

<p>Sophomore: 1st sem: OChem 1 +Lab(6cr); Intro Bio2(4cr); Eng 2(3cr); ?not sure what to take/GE?
Sophomore: 2nd sem: OChem 2 +Lab(6cr); Integrated Bio (mandatory)(4cr);Gen psychology(3cr); ?not sure what to take/GE?</p>

<p>Junior: 1st sem: Gen Physics 1(5cr); Intro Biochem(4cr); Human Anatomy(3cr); Human Physiology(3cr) = total 15 cr
Junior: 2nd sem: Gen Physics 2(5cr); Gen Genetics(3cr); Cellular & Dev. Bio(3cr); 2 GE/Electives</p>

<p>Senior: finish up the rest of GE/Electives/Bio courses</p>

<p>He will need to fit these courses into the schedules: 1 lit, 1 art, 3 sem foreign language, 1 molecular bio, 1 Intro computer</p>

<p>2)During summer between HS freshman and sophomore year, son took Gen Chem 1 at a community college and received a B. Son is not planning to forward that transcript to his undergraduate college since he wants to take/retake Gen Chem 1 to build a stronger foundation. However, I read that when he applies for medical school, he has to submit that B to AMCAS. AMCAS will then take the average of that cc Gen Chem grade B and college Gen Chem grade for the sGPA and cGPA.</p>

<p>My question is what about if son did worse and receive a grade worse than B in college? I know it would be time for him to consider switching major. But, should he skip Gen Chem 1 and take Chem 2 freshman 1st sem + another semester of higher level Chem with lab? Considering he is weak in Chem, I am not sure if this is a better solution. Any opinion is welcomed.</p>

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<p>What do you mean by him switching majors? He doesn’t have to major in bio…he can major in anything he likes and fulfill his premed courses. As far as getting less than a B in college…there have been several successful med students here on CC (Bluedevilmike for one) that got less than that and still got into medschool. My daughter got a C+ in an UG class (gasp, jk) and still got into medschool. I also wouldn’t advise him to skip gen chem 1.</p>

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<p>2) Yes, the CC chem class will be included by AMCAS when calculating both his GPA and sGPA for med school admission. The two grades are specifically averaged, but both courses will be used when computing his GPA.</p>

<p>Getting below a B is not optimal, but not fatal. (D1 had a F in a science course–which she declined to retake–and still had no issue getting accepted into med schools. She’s currently a MS4.) And GA2012MOM has pointed out there are several posters (all now either med students or residents) who have successfully been accepted into med school with one or more grades below B, even in key pre-reqs like Ochem.</p>

<p>One consideration: AMCAS will report to med schools your son has taken gen chem 1 twice. Some adcomms may see it as arrogant, ill considered or as overly concerned with GPA protection for him to retake a course in which he earned a B. </p>

<p>One additional comment–I didn’t read your son’s entire proposed schedule, but he will need a second English or other ‘writing intensive’ class for most medical schools. Please consult the admissions websites for your in-state publics and MSAR for requirements. Some schools specifically say “two courses in English”; others are less specific.</p>

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<p>Oops, sorry, I didn’t see that the B was in gen chem. Heck no, I wouldn’t advise a retake.</p>

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<p>S ended up with an under 3.2 GPA (science/overall) at end of freshman year. I don’t remember specifics but there was more than one C amongst those freshman grades. He was accepted to 3 med schools and just finished his first year of residency. Worldmom, relax, one B in a college chem course taken during high school is the least of his upcoming hurdles. </p>

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<p>ACK! Typo!</p>

<p>This–>

should read as: The two grades are NOT specifically averaged.</p>

<p>Also not to be snarky, but your S has already taken gen chem 1 twice (once as AP chem, once at a CC). What makes you think a third shot at the class is going to have different results?</p>

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<p>Thanks for sharing your opinion. It is always good to hear from another person’s perspective.</p>

<p>S took CC Chem class before his HS sophomore year (3 years ago). We are thinking not to use his AP Chem credit (junior year) because he did try very hard for that class(everything he could do) and still ended up with 2-Bs and a 4 and some unclear concepts. I thought by retaking Chem 1 in college, he could have a better understanding on the concepts and be able to refresh his memory before moving onto Chem 2, a harder class. My biggest concern is, given his condition, I do not know how he can handle Chem 2 right off the start of college.</p>

<p>Sorry, I have some more questions.</p>

<p>1)Premed prereq is 1 year of Gen Chem +Lab. Assume he would take Chem 2 now which means S needs to replace with 1 sem of advanced Chem+Lab. Since he is taking BioChem down the road, does it mean he can use Biochem Lab for the substitution? </p>

<p>2)How much does AP Chem cover in terms of college Gen Chem? AP Chem = Gen Chem 1?</p>

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<p>1) Whether he will need another semester of lab will depend on whether or not his college awards lab credit for his CC or AP class. (Some colleges do; some don’t. He’ll need to look at his transcript after he has started classes.) </p>

<p>If his college does not award lab credit for gen chem 1, then he’ll need another semester of lab. Biochem lab will probably be acceptable substitute. The best person to ask about this is the health professions advisor at his college. It’s their job to know this stuff.</p>

<p>2) AP Chem covers all of gen chem 1. Depending on the specific college’s curriculum, AP Chem may or may not cover some or all topics in gen chem 2. (IOW, colleges will award either 1 or 2 semesters of chem credit for AP Chem. It’s program-specific.)</p>

<p>If your son is concerned about knowledge decay for gen chem, he can spend some time doing a self-review this summer. There are some pretty good You Tube video lectures/lessons out on the web. He could also read his old chem text and do the practice problems at the end of the chapters. He could also look for and do any practice exams posted for gen chem 1 at his college’s or other colleges’ chem dept websites. He could also audit gen chem thru MIT’s online courseware.</p>

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<p>WayOutWestMom or anyone else who can help. Thanks.</p>

<p>Son is at his college orientation now. He talked to the Chem Dept Head Adviser today and will see his LAS adviser tomorrow to sign off his schedule. Chem Adviser strongly discouraged him to skip Chem 1 especially S only earned a 4 on AP Chem, mentioning the difficulty of Chem 2 material. When S asked him about the AP Chem score of 4 =credit for Gen Chem 1, Adviser instantly tested S on a few chem questions. S didn’t get them right. Adviser then said since S took Gen Chem 1 at CC the summer before HS sophomore year, which was “so long ago… happened during HS…before he even turned sophomore…”, S does not need to report that when he applies for medical school. This is not what I have read or heard. But, he is the head adviser; he should know better. Has anyone have similar experience? Did you or your kid report that class to AMCAS?</p>

<p>Will med school find out about the course if you do not self report it? I would assume AMCAS or med schools have some sort of database to search. Is there a space on the application for an explanation? Sorry, if I am asking too early about this.</p>

<p>Anyway, S is now forced to take Gen Chem 1. </p>

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<p>AMCAS, TMDSAS (Texas medical schools) and AACOMAS (osteopathic medical schools) all require applicants to report any and all college level classes ever taken. This includes college coursework taken during high school.</p>

<p><a href=“https://www.aamc.org/students/download/182162/data/amcas_instruction_manual.pdf”>https://www.aamc.org/students/download/182162/data/amcas_instruction_manual.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p><a href=“http://www.aacom.org/Documents/AACOMASInstructions.pdf”>http://www.aacom.org/Documents/AACOMASInstructions.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p><a href=“https://www.tmdsas.com/medical/application-instructions.html”>https://www.tmdsas.com/medical/application-instructions.html&lt;/a&gt; </p>

<p>The organizations use the applicant’s personally identifiable information (name, birthdate, SSN, etc) from their application to check several national student clearinghouse databases to see where a student has been enrolled. Failing to report college-level coursework will be at best be considered submitting an incomplete application which will delay the processing of the application until the matter is resolved; at worst it will be considered submitting a fraudulent application which will get the applicant permanently banned from applying to any US med schools.</p>

<p>Medical schools place a very high value on honesty and ethical behavior. Lying (Including lying by omission) on an application has terrible consequences, even if it gets past the various screeners. Your medical degree can be revoked even years after graduation. It can also prevent an individual from ever obtaining a medical license. (Since an applicant signs an affidavit affirming that all information submitted is true on their applications, lying on the application is considered a moral turpitude offense by state licensing boards.) </p>

<p>There isn’t any place on AMCAS for explanation, but there is often a place on the individual school secondaries. (Usually a question along the lines of: “Is there anything else we should know regarding your application?” or something similar.) </p>

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<p>My advice would be to take Bio + Gen Chem + English/other easier courses freshman year. I would strongly suggest that you use your AP Calc credits and NOT take calc in college as the vast majority of schools now accept a semester of calc (satisfied by AP) + a semester of stats (this includes Hopkins/HMS/Wash U). I didn’t use any of my AP’s either except for random courses like APUSH and Spanish. I took the above schedule and got 3.9 + my freshman year because Gen Chem, while tougher at the college level especially if you go to a top 20, mostly rehashes AP topics. Good luck!</p>

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<p>In general, decisions to skip or not skip are best evaluated by trying the college’s old final exams for the course that may be skipped. How well the student handles the problems on those old final exams can be used to assess readiness for the subsequent course.</p>

<p>However, medical school considerations intrude into the decision.</p>

<p>a. Repeating a college course may not look too good in medical school admissions, and certainly does not erase the previous grade for medical school purposes.
b. Skipping due to AP credit often means that the student will have to take an additional college course in the subject area (e.g. if skipping a semester of general chemistry with AP credit, the student needs to take a more advanced non-organic chemistry course later). Of course, if the student is majoring in that subject, that may not be a concern (e.g. a math major need not worry about skipping frosh calculus with AP calculus credit, since s/he will take many more advanced math courses like multivariable calculus, real analysis, etc.).</p>

<p>The other question is, what is his prospective major? No specific major is required to go to medical school.</p>