<p>Mini, I am so sorry for the misunderstanding. </p>
<p>"And many of your posts are extremely critical of Harvard. Seems that you have some jealousy issues."</p>
<p>I meant this towards alphacdcd, not you. I just have been browsing his old posts and geez! Everything he friggin writes is either about how incredible P-ton is and some new ranking done by some random group rated it number 1 for something. Also, he seems to dislike H from reading his posts.</p>
<p>"Mini pay close attention to this quote below: "Princeton was the first university to implement such a "no-loan" financial aid policy in 2001"."</p>
<p>It's a good policy - for middle-income students. It has virtually no effect on those in the bottom 35% of the U.S. population, which is likely why since instituting the policy, it has thus far had no impact on the percentage of students attending from that portion of the population. (Brown University, in contrast, got it right. Ruth Simmons, daughter of a sharecropper, instituted a policy whereby low-income students do not have to do workstudy - or, more precisely, do not have to contribute funds from work-study toward tuition - in their first year, nor necessarily their summer earnings. She realized that the issue, for many low-income students, is not loan indebtedness, but the ability to contribute income towards the family.)</p>
<p>Princeton is a good school, with a large endowment. (I had a foster kid who attended - on a full scholarship, I might add, one of those "non-merit" things whereby he got poorer in April when they discovered that MIT thought he was even more pauperized..) And it is in no way required to accept low-income students. But, as Larry Summers, the Pres. of Harvard now agrees, not doing so has negative impacts on high income ones.</p>
<p>Hoo, Get your facts straight. I like Harvard. Like Xanatos I have problems with a certain H booster, as well as others, who come to this board with misinformation. You've looked at my posts. Did you find a lie, distortion or item of misinformation?
Princeton is a fabulous school that is rated by most of the national ranking publications as the #1 non-technical, undergraduate school in the country. There is a reason for this. It is a model for other schools to follow. If you get past your petty insecurities, you will see that you can learn much from how it operates (so that you can incorporate those principles into your own selection process). Its that same knowledge that allowed me to recognize that Mini was way off base (and she still is - unfortunately).
But open your mind and try and recognize what makes a school good. Financial resources, rate of alumni giving, alumni enthusiasm are just several of the many factors to consider in selecting a school. But you should know as many of the factors as possible. "You learn from the best, not the worst".
If you don't want to learn, then just move on to another thread.</p>
<p>alphacdcd,</p>
<p>Links work for some of this stuff, too.</p>
<p>Anyway, the flaw in your defense of Princeton's generosity is their admissions policies. And this is not unique to Princeton. Larry Summer's recent generous proposal to make Harvard free to anyone with a family making less than 60K per year (did I remember correctly) is estimated to affect 40 kids or so. Let's see: 40 X 40,000/kid = 1.6M. With their resources...</p>
<p>The real problem at true elite schools is their fixation on racial affirmative action while totally ignoring socioeconomic affirmative action. This has led to the perverse practice of admitting students of color from outside the US (carribean countries, for example) so they can brag about the number of black students they have. They cannot brag about the number of african-american, because these students are not american.</p>
<p>Other discussions recently on these boards gave data on the small number of kids at elite colleges receiving Pell grants. Truly needy kids just don't make it over the hurdles. So, it is easy for Princeton to eliminate all loans, when the maximum one could borrow was only about 18K over 4 years, and not many kids were doing that anyway.</p>
<p>"Larry Summer's recent generous proposal to make Harvard free to anyone with a family making less than 60K per year (did I remember correctly) is estimated to affect 40 kids or so. Let's see: 40 X 40,000/kid = 1.6M. With their resources..."</p>
<p>Are you sure that's right? Surely there are more than 40 students whose families make less than 60k/yr.</p>
<p>I hate to say it but I think endowment size per student is very relevant. I have noticed alot more opportunities/ scholarships/ etc at the richer schools.</p>
<p>newmassdad, Summers recent action has been acknowledged as Harvard's response to the Princeton plan. Even Harvard boosters here agree the decision to adopt the policy was more for peer competition reasons than anything else. Harvard was losing applicants and it had to react, much the same way Yale is now under pressure to consider such action. Credit Princeton for leading the way.</p>
<p>Mini is a man.</p>
<p>From Yahoo news:</p>
<p>Yale University Increases Financial Aid</p>
<p>Thu Mar 3, 5:21 PM ET</p>
<p>Add to My Yahoo! U.S. National - AP</p>
<p>By MATT APUZZO, Associated Press Writer</p>
<p>NEW HAVEN, Conn. - Yale University increased its financial aid for lower-income families Thursday, the latest move by the Ivy League to attract students who had seen the schools as out of their price range.</p>
<p>Beginning next year, families making less than $45,000 will no longer have to pay tuition for their children, and those earning between $45,000 and $60,000 will see their required contributions drop an average of 50 percent, Yale said.</p>
<p>"The general message is that Ivy League schools are affordable," Yale President Richard Levin said. "This is a dream that can be achieved."</p>
<p>Levin said many qualified students don't bother applying to Yale because they figure their parents can't foot the tuition of about $41,000 a year, including room, board and other fees. But about 40 percent of undergraduates receive financial aid, with an average award this year of $22,000.</p>
<p>The average family earning less than $60,000 will save about $2,700 under the new plan, the university said. It estimated the changes will cost about $3 million, and will be paid for by using interest from the school's $12.7 billion endowment and with money saved on operating expenses.</p>
<p>Interestingly, by increasing their class size by 500 students Princeton will fall behind Yale and Harvard.</p>
<p>in what way slipper?</p>
<p>"Wow, I am a really bad typer. I just reread my message and realized that I mispelled surprise. <em>hides in corner</em>" </p>
<p>You misspelled misspell -_-</p>
<p>With the size of their student body increasing by over 40%, their place as the institution with the highest endowment/ student will fall.</p>
<p>"Are you sure that's right? Surely there are more than 40 students whose families make less than 60k/yr."</p>
<p>There are roughly 350 Pell Grant recipients at Harvard (not including the evening extension division, which has lots more). To put that into perspective, that is less than half the number at Smith, which has half as many students in total.</p>
<p>Don't get me wrong - I think they have done a good thing. But it is a "little" good thing.</p>
<p>Hey, Alpha, could you cite the stats from your original post? I'd like to show them to my dad.</p>
<p>Sorry, It is not handy, but you should be able to google it without a problem.</p>
<p>"Are you sure that's right? Surely there are more than 40 students whose families make less than 60k/yr."</p>
<p>"There are roughly 350 Pell Grant recipients at Harvard"</p>
<p>Yes, many of these 350 probably make far less than 60K, and are already getting full rides. I was referring to how much NEW money, which is not much, which is why it seems like more of a PR move than substance.</p>
<p>Then again, Larry Summers needs all the good PR he can get.</p>
<p>Well, they actually said how many folks it would help. 111 to be exact (all of whom were already receiving aid.) They said it would cost $3 million, and the average family would save $2,700. </p>
<p>Big deal.</p>
<p>I apologize for belittling it. It is a big deal to those 111 folks who really need the assistance, and I'm thankful that they are receiving it.</p>
<p>Need is easy to define when just the FAFSA is being used, if you like that formula. However, there are a number of schools that provide for 100% of financial need but leave the term 'need' undefined.</p>
<p>As a parent with one son in college and another going in a year I am trying to make heads and tails of all this . . .</p>
<p>My sense is that 100% at one school would be considered 110% at another. My question is which ones and how are they defining need?</p>