<p>Forensic psuedo-science you mean? I read a really interesting article the other day about how the only forensic technique that has actually been scientifically tested and verified is DNA testing, the others are on a fairly shaky foundation. Kind of interesting since they are taken as being solid as stone in court when in reality they are very error prone. DNA has overturned a lot of cases that were based on older forensic techniques. Kind of interesting IMO.</p>
<p>Anyway, back to the topic at hand…</p>
<p>More publicity would be wonderful. It is just hard to make a show about engineering that would actually get ratings. It is kind of tough to make it “exciting” by TV’s definition. October Sky was a great movie that would be a great example for what kind of publicity engineering needs, but so many kids were forced to watch it in their science classes that I think it kind of turned people off.</p>
<p>Forensic psuedo-science you mean? I read a really interesting article the other day about how the only forensic technique that has actually been scientifically tested and verified is DNA testing, the others are on a fairly shaky foundation. Kind of interesting since they are taken as being solid as stone in court when in reality they are very error prone. DNA has overturned a lot of cases that were based on older forensic techniques. Kind of interesting IMO.</p>
<p>Anyway, back to the topic at hand…</p>
<p>More publicity would be wonderful. It is just hard to make a show about engineering that would actually get ratings. It is kind of tough to make it “exciting” by TV’s definition. October Sky was a great movie that would be a great example for what kind of publicity engineering needs, but so many kids were forced to watch it in their science classes that I think it kind of turned people off.</p>
<p>I like wearing suits too, which is one reason I intend on being an engineer. I also am leaning that I like to be more sociable and engaging with others. Engineering is quite team based but there’s less actual social interaction than just working together to complete a project. </p>
<p>It seems that you have students who major in engineering because they are genuinely interested in becoming an engineer, then you have students who just heard they “make a lot of money”, and then you have those who are engineering majors but just using it as a stepping stone to something else (grad school, med school, law school, etc) and know it supposedly looks great on a resume.</p>
<p>Haha, you and, like, no other people! The ability to avoid wearing a suit is one of the reasons I got into engineering (aside from just genuinely loving the subject and creating new things and understanding how things work of course).</p>
<p>I see no issue with people going into engineering thinking it will make them a lot of money. Because if they make it thru they WILL make a lot of money as intended and if they absolutely hate working as engineers after college then they can change to any field under the sun. Maybe more kids should be told about all the money they will be making as engineers that might be a good way to motivate.</p>
<p>You’re not? Well, then apparently MIT didn’t get the memo.</p>
<p>*What is the M.Eng. Thesis?</p>
<p>The thesis requirement gives students an opportunity to develop and demonstrate their ability to carry out and document a reasonably comprehensive project requiring considerable initiative, creative thought, and a good deal of individual responsibility. The thesis may be a design project, an analytical paper, or experimental work of a technical nature.*</p>
<p>sakky, of course some schools are going to differ slightly as there is no set curriculum, but in general, in the US, M.Eng is a course work only option. Now, things are different at a school that only offers M.Eng and no M.S. or at a school that just feels the need to be different. For instance, that MIT website shows that their M.Eng is essentially identical to the M.S. but is exclusively for students who do the 5 year Bachelors/Masters program in the EECS department, as no one else is eligible to apply.</p>
<p>The other problem you run into is that the M.Eng is a relatively new degree compared to M.S., and so there is a lot of variation. Some schools offer M.Eng degrees AND a non-thesis M.S., which has always blown my mind since I am not really sure what the reasoning there was. However, in general, M.Eng degrees do not require theses. Clearly, the MIT EECS program is an exception.</p>
<p>The Department of Civil and Environmental Engineering’s Master of Engineering (M.Eng.) is a nine-month program that provides a practice-oriented education.</p>
<p>The Master of Engineering in Manufacturing is designed to give students a broad and solid understanding of the core principles of manufacturing…The MIT Project Thesis is completed in late August.</p>
<p>Right. MIT is the outlier. I referred to the EECS program alone because that was the example he gave. However, using additional examples from the same college at the same university is not going to prove anything. MIT has theses. Cool. The overwhelming majority of programs at other schools do not.</p>
<p>And I am bringing up the issue of the MIT M.Eng. degree because it undermines the logic raised before that M.Eng. degrees are always consist of mere coursework. Clearly that is not always the case: schools can and do run M.Eng. programs that are far more than mere coursework extensions of bachelor’s degree programs.</p>
<p>Nor do I consider MIT to be a ‘mere outlier’, even if you would like to think of it as such. After all, MIT is not just any engineering school - it is arguably the very best and most prestigious engineering school in the entire world, having been ranked #1 overall in the USNews Graduate Engineering rankings every single year that the ranking has been published, and consistently ranking extremely high, if not #1, in every other serious ranking of engineering schools. Hence, if MIT is an outlier, it is an outlier of such importance that it invalidates whatever generalization one was proposing beforehand.</p>
<p>Why is there even an argument about this? Clearly the poster was referring to thesis and non-thesis masters degrees when using the MS/MEng terminology. It’s not about what it’s called. I got my MS (not MEng) without a thesis and paid full tuition. If I remember correctly, all of the schools I had applied to had a similar setup for me.</p>
<p>I think if sakky worked on phrasing things better then people wouldn’t get defensive. For instance, perhaps something like “I don’t think that’s necessarily the case. For instance, consider the case of MIT… insert 500 word apologia here … and therefore, while it may certainly be the case that most schools work as (whoever) described, it seems that actual definitions may vary between schools, and there is not a right or a wrong answer.”</p>
<p>sakky, you come off as a tool sometimes (most of the time).</p>
<p>MIT might very well (read: probably is) the best engineering school out there, but that doesn’t mean that it is more than just one data point in the big picture. The majority of M.Eng degrees are non-thesis. There are certainly exceptions, as it is a new degree and not very regulated, but for the most part, its hallmark is not having a thesis involved.</p>
<p>Of course, you could look at it this way: While not all M.Eng degrees are non-thesis, the fact that the general idea about them is that they are non-thesis would make me think long and hard about getting a thesis based M.Eng when I could get a normal M.S. instead (assuming all else was equal). Sometimes, it is more about perception than reality. That is not really a good thing, but it is true.</p>
<p>“AuburnMathTutor, if you don’t like my posts, then don’t read them. Otherwise, if you continue to insult me personally, I’ll have you banned.”</p>
<ul>
<li>I’ll still read your posts, but I’ll try to make the criticism more constructive. For instance, I could have said “try to be less confrontational and people will listen to you instead of ignoring you or starting a pointless 100-post flame war”. Of course, this may not be what you want, judgning by the quoted post. That’s cool. You want to get angry at a stranger on an internet forum, that’s your prerogative.</li>
</ul>
<p>No, I’m afraid that it is more than just one data point, for it influences all of the others. Put another way, the engineering program at the average school wants to be more like MIT, but MIT doesn’t want to be more like the average school. Hence, if a school like MIT can successfully run M.Eng programs with theses, then that potentially opens the door for other schools to do the same.</p>