<p>Using College</a> Navigator - National Center for Education Statistics , over 500 for-profit 4 year colleges show up.</p>
<p>But adding the screen for the 25th percentile SAT CR >= 300 and 25th percentile SAT M >= 300 reduces the list to 12. Setting the thresholds to 400 on each reduces the list to 9, and setting the thresholds to 500 on each reduces the list to 1.</p>
<p>And ~500 is around the average right?</p>
<p>wow</p>
<p>It’s definitely not our top academic students who attend these places. Those that come to our school to recruit often do so in our lower/lowest level classes. It’s frustrating to see (I’ve only seen one presentation) as they are slick with their advertising and NEVER mention cost - just that financial aid is available. They also don’t mention success rates - even when asked. They just say it’s variable and depends upon the student. While that’s true, it’s still misleading IMO. Legally, our school can’t keep them out. We have a few that buy into them each year. I can’t say I’ve heard a success story, but I don’t really keep up with those students either. I don’t know them as well.</p>
<p>How many of those for profits ask for SATs or ACTs? It was my understanding that they mainly targeted working adults who tried, but failed college, and seniors who would otherwise go to community college. As such, their target demographics are precisely the ones that don’t take the SAT/ACT, or last took it years ago. Asking for standardized test scores would result in enrolling far fewer students, which is a terrible business model for the for profits.</p>
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<p>What are the restrictions on what you can do? Can you provide students who are considering them with accurate and unbiased information about costs and graduation rates?</p>
<p>The high achieving students are not their target market so I guess I am not at all surprised by this.</p>
<p>A representative from a for profit school was a guest presenter at a local community group’s meeting that I attended last month. At the Q&A, someone asked about the cost and the presenter sidestepped answering the question by talking about the financial aid that was available to all students.</p>
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<p>I don’t work in guidance, so I don’t know that I can accurately answer that question. I know after I saw that one presentation (covering for an English teacher who was sick), I asked guidance about it and made sure they were aware of the presentation - and not answering the cost question, etc - it’s not even in the printed material they give students that day. I was told the school couldn’t legally keep them out and that they were the “right” choice for some students.</p>
<p>I don’t know how much they tell both sides (high cost/debt, low pay for most jobs) outside of the presentation.</p>
<p>If, in conversation, I hear of a student considering these places I make sure I mention some alternatives and tell them to check out the cost vs pay for whatever job, but in the end, it’s their decision. Some choose these routes every year. What happens later? I’m not sure in most cases. I know some get jobs, but I’m not convinced their pay is adequate for repaying the cost (or loans).</p>
<p>[Investigation</a> reveals claims of unmanageable debt by ‘for-profit’ college students - Rock Center with Brian Williams](<a href=“http://rockcenter.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/07/19/12842350-investigation-reveals-claims-of-unmanageable-debt-by-for-profit-college-students?lite]Investigation”>http://rockcenter.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/07/19/12842350-investigation-reveals-claims-of-unmanageable-debt-by-for-profit-college-students?lite)</p>
<p>There was an eye-opening segment on Rock Center the other night about for-profit colleges.</p>
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<p>ucb: </p>
<p>I think your use of the data isn’t valid on this one since I think many/most of these privates don’t require submission of an SAT score and many/most of them have very high acceptance rates (> 90%). Your point would be valid if the search engine controlled for searching only those who have a submitted SAT score but I highly doubt it does that.</p>
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<p>It is possible to do that. If you set the minimum score at 200 for each SAT subscore, and 1 for the ACT, you’ll see that only about 12 schools pop up.</p>
<p>There are some legitimate for-profits, but most exist purely to soak up federal student aid, Veterans benefits and federal loans, and to sell private loans to students. The US Dept. of Education has proposed to crack down on the worst offenders, but there is much political opposition to those efforts. </p>
<p>I remember one for-profit that had thousands of paid recruiters for new students, only one person who tried to find jobs for graduates. Another for-profit signed up a set of vets living in homeless shelters for extensive numbers of courses, including some vets who were too injured to function. In some cases, the for-profits start with very low income people, and turn them into people with the same low income but with much higher debts. </p>
<p>If people do manage to finish for-profit classes, they are often surprised when other colleges will not accept the credits towards a bachelors degree. </p>
<p>95% of the time, people could get better educations at a local community college at a fraction of the price. However, the community colleges have much smaller marketing and recruitment budgets.</p>
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So this means either that the vast majority of them have students with scores even lower than 200 or that the vast majority don’t use the SAT score as a criteria as far as the search engine goes which I’m sure is the case so the numbers posted in the initial post aren’t meaningful.</p>
<p>First, not all for-profit schools are equal. A few, particularly in the art field such as SVA, Gnomon etc aren’t bad. They also do aim for high achieving students. I would agree, however, that the vast majority are not worth it. However, many of the criticisms about for profit schools can be made for non profits too. They don’t guarantee employment and are a bit disingenuous about costs. Many times I go on a non profit college web site looking for the tuition and found that it is hard to find without doing a search.</p>
<p>They also talk about their scholarships and financial aid while many times not meeting the real need requirements.</p>
<p>Our high school has dozens of colleges visit. No for-profit schools visit.</p>
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I agree!</p>
<p>I worked with a boy who was attending Brown Mackie college as a licensed practical nursing student. He was ex-Amish and had his GED. Pretty sure he had never taken the ACT.</p>
<p>I think this is the type of student they rely on-those who are not well informed.</p>
<p>For-profit colleges are scams. Community colleges are cheaper and smarter options.</p>
<p>I was the Director of Education at a for-profit, and let me tell you, the admissions “standards” are minimal (If you can pass a test on the level of 8th grade, you’re in), and there is a reason all these schools don’t put much information on their websites. They want to get you in, give you the high pressure sales pitch all about how the school will make your life so much better, and then get you packaged in financial aid within two days so you don’t have time to change your mind. Most kids who attend these schools don’t like school and just want to get it done with quickly. Nothing in life that is of quality is “quick”. These schools watch your hours of attendance, because they can’t pull financial aid disbursements if you haven’t hit certain hours. Once a student enrolls, they don’t care if the student then has to quit, so they take people that say “I have 3 kids and no child care, I have a sick mother and no car to get here.” “No problem” say the admissions people. As long as they get you in for the first 6 days, they can pull the first disbursement of loan money, pell money, and whatever else the student was funded with, so at least they got some money if the student has to quit after that! They might as well be selling used cars. The students often have NOT researched schools closely, often just don’t have an understanding about the financial aspects, true costs, ect, and then are SHOCKED when they have to quit and find out now they have to start paying back the loans, etc. Working for one, I felt like my soul was being sucked into a black hole. Many of my students were attending because if they didn’t they would have to go to prison, others were attending because they were desperate to somehow get a better life and this was the only hope…Faculty don’t have to have doctorates, but may have a lot of work experience. If you go into it with eyes wide open, and realize what a for-profit school is and is not, that’s one thing. If you go in naive, well…</p>
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<p>I couldn’t agree more that community colleges provide a much better education at a much better price. But for many Californians, they aren’t an option. </p>
<p>Our budget woes have hit the entire California higher education system very hard – program cuts, long waiting lists for classes, faculty and service reductions, and tuition hikes. The community colleges have been hit especially hard, with masses of students who can’t find room at a CSU or can’t afford it, and masses of students trying to train or retrain during the recession. More demand and fewer slots has resulted in hundreds of thousands of students being turned away from the lowest rung of our system.</p>
<p>[Community</a> colleges could turn away 400,000 students](<a href=“http://www.davisenterprise.com/local-news/community-colleges-could-turn-away-400000-students/]Community”>http://www.davisenterprise.com/local-news/community-colleges-could-turn-away-400000-students/) </p>
<p>I’m not defending the practices of for-profit colleges; IMO they are vultures. But they are offering students something that they literally, and unfortunately, cannot get anywhere else.</p>
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<p>The presentation from the school I saw was not in the guidance office like typical college visits. It was in lower level (only) English classes. Any kid attending the class got the spiel.</p>
<p>I don’t actually know if any of the for-profits schedule regular college visits. I’ll have to listen more closely to announcements this year.</p>
<p>At our school, any college or military who wants to come can. Students then choose to meet with them if they wish - except for those who go into the classes (I’m not sure if others do that or not).</p>