I don’t think AP scores are broadly indicative of college preparation. By that, I mean that not all 5s represent equal readiness.
Our son ended up with As in all of his college math classes, but on his very first college test, he got a C. It was a Calc III honors section where every student in the class had a 5 on the BC exam.
He called and said “Something happened that’s never happened before…I got a C on a math test.” He got a 79. There was no curve. When I asked how the other students did he said “Oh! There were a LOT of scores in the 30s.”
He was well prepared though. The crux class at his HS was pre-Calc. The teacher didn’t limp students through. If they struggled he’d just say “maybe calculus isn’t for you.”
I agree 100% though that math aptitude tends to present very early and is extremely important to success in engineering.
While not all 5 scores are equal, a Harvard admission director once mentioned that AP scores were more predictive of college performance than SAT subject scores, HS GPA, and SAT/ACT scores (in that order).
An honors course in college should be expected to be harder than a regular course in college. Additionally, probably most of the students in that course were also adjusting from high school to college.
But the class he was taking was Calc III the next sequence after all the AP’s. I would expect that Calc III at a highly ranked science/math university would be much tougher than any high school AP class. My point was really aptitudes… certainly difficulty of the classes might yield low grades. However, he nor my kids washed out because the ability was there. If that makes sense.
This is absolutely true. A young person I know studied engineering at top ranked engineering school and graduated in 2020. She came from a respected private high school and was at the top of her class there, but when she got to the engineering program, in her first year, her grades suffered because she was used to getting multiple attempts at graded assignments, even as a top student. Her teacher in high school also would drop the lowest grade assignment. She had to get accustomed to being accountable for accuracy all of the time. Once she acclimated, she did very well in her classes, graduated, and got a job in her field. It took a little longer to find work than she expected due to the pandemic, but she was persistent and did it. She’s an engineer today.
If a student is only studying engineering due to external pressure and they don’t want to master it, then they will probably not last in the major. It’s not the kind of degree that parents can push a student through. The student has to want to study engineering to be successful at it.
Man I am laughing. My son went to the top school in our state and yes nationally ranked high. All honors and Ap classes. No regular classes. He got his first “C” in a physics class. I asked him if he needed a tutor … He told me that his score was high for the class and many were retaking the class. He said getting a C “Was” the good score …
My son went to Michigan for engineering. They tell all these high profile kids at the open house. Forget about getting all As. A B here is actually a really good score… Lol… Heh, it’s hard stuff these kids are doing.
I don’t know exactly what I think about this. But I will say I was a first gen college student. I was one and done on the ACT and did FINE but not GREAT. Speed was never my forte. I graduated in the top 10 of my class of 300 and took the most rigorous math after doubling up one year. I did NOT shine in math prior to high school at all.
I went to an engineering program I would not get into now if test scores were required. I was often on the dean’s list and graduated with 2 BS degrees. I tested way at the top on the GRE. One of my degrees is in math, I took a number of grad level courses.
Having done some math teaching/tutoring over the years, early math aptitude in rote skills can be very different than deep problem solving ability later. There are also plenty of reasons why any given student may not test well on a one and done high stakes timed tested format. I just find timed high stakes testing a pretty imperfect vehicle. I’ve found some students really good and jumping a test hoop that can’t think well out of the box with problem solving. I do think some schools are doing better than others with math education. Many elementary school teachers are very poor math teachers.
My 1st kid is a timed testing super star, had scores to apply anywhere. My 2nd kid is academically pretty similar kid, but a much twitchier tester. She worked with an independant tutor briefly who after a few sessions said she should be ceiling the test, but was just inconsistent depending on the day, the test. In general, slow in the math section. (ETA that 2nd kid also just doesn’t care that much lol. She auditioned for music programs and is heading to one in the fall)
The main reason is that college (any college) is different from high school. Compared to high school, college:
Requires the student to have more of their own time management and self motivation.
Has fewer assignments to ensure that the student stays on schedule (high school often daily, college typically weekly at most).
Has fewer but larger (in terms of portion of the overall grade) tests.
Fewer opportunities for extra credit or make up work.
Usually has faster pacing than high school (e.g. a semester college course often covers the amount of material that a year high school course covers).
Academic standards are higher (since students who barely passed (D) or baseline passed (C) in high school are less likely to be in college), so most college students earn lower grades than they did in high school.
(For residential students) Offers a new set of social activities that may be interesting distractions, compared to coming home from high school and doing homework under parental supervision.
These apply whether the student is going from high school precalculus to college calculus, high school calculus to college more advanced calculus, high school foreign language year 3 to college foreign language semester 2 / 3 / 4, etc…
Of course, if the student jumps immediately into an honors course, that increases the difficulty.
Study skills and time management are huge. Some of the kids with high math aptitude have the other skills and some don’t. Some of the kids who can really study are only average at math/physics, but can get through an engineering major with a lot of hard work and solid if not brilliant math.
Two of my kids hit college already possessing the work ethic and time management skills they needed and did not struggle as an engineering major and an Econ/math double major. They worked very hard but didn’t struggle.
Third kid struggled more in college, also in a challenging major (music) because time management was harder and just as necessary as it was for his math/engineering sisters. Watching him, I wasn’t convinced engineering was even the harder major. He was regularly taking eight different courses per semester, and the ones that were just one or two credits would be the most time consuming.
I had an A+ GPA in high school. Thought I was hot stuff. Got into UT’s honors engineering program. Wow, what a shock! Honors physics was really hard. Even with a tutor, I got a C one semester and a B the next. I kept plugging and ended up graduating with high honors and got a fellowship to grad school. So if your student struggles at first, encourage them to persevere.
Yep physics ( sparks and magic or electromagnetism) was my son’s first college experience with a super low test grade. He was sooo happy to pass the class.
… He told me that his score was high for the class and many were retaking the class. He said getting a C “Was” the good score 
…