<p>This is right off of our HS website. I guess we are fortunate enough to have an administration and IB coordinator who is willing to provide it.</p>
<p>Total number of Diploma candidates tested
2002 28
2003 31
2004 36
2005 31
2006 26
2007 55
2008 47</p>
<p>Number of Diplomas awarded
2002 27 (96%)
2003 26 (84%)
2004 32 (89%)
2005 30 (97%)
2006 21 (81%)
2007 45 (80%)
2008 32 (72%)</p>
<p>
[quote]
Wheew this person is everyone's nightmare. I would avoid even avoid responding to her posts if I were you. It's hopeless. It seems she is devoting her life to this "cause", kind of like Don Quixote.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Same sentiments here. It is absolutely not worth it and we are just providing this person with an avenue to present her opinion.</p>
<p>I am not afraid of ObserverNY or the boogie man or big bad wolf. She took over this thread and I want to provide examples where she is wrong. </p>
<p>I have full access to IB scores at my high school and county. I expected it and demanded to see it before we choose a high school in the county I live. I have the same for AP. We happen to live a county which has decided high schools have either AP or IB. I have little or no control over that decision but I do have control over my actions when it comes to the school my children go to. I don't happen to agree with that county decision because we have also lived in a school district which offered three advanced academic programs for its students: honors/AP/IB. It worked. But as a public school district that I now live, there are many constraints which must be factored into a decision such as this. </p>
<p>But I choose to build on the existing program in my children's high school and not tear it down. I don't believe replacing one for the other is the right choice because of the cost it will have on the students. I do believe in adding additional courses from both curriculum which benefits our student population. I choose to help make it better and not picket outside of a school. But I do it with respect for the admin and the teachers. </p>
<p>I will admit I am an IB advocate but I am an advocate who is informed. I don't believe all the propoganda from IBO and that was the reason for my research. I wanted something I hear over and over again from IB students but nothing definitive. I also don't believe the propoganda from the CollegeBoard. I want the same thing from AP but I can only see College Board marketing studies. I would really like to figure out how to get access to AP graduates so I can do the side by side. I also don't have any interest in the propoganda coming from ObserverNY. It is interesting reading but little substance. </p>
<p>IB is not a cure all for all the aliments of a school. It is not for everyone! AP is not the cure all for all the aliments of a school, it is not for everyone. It is not for everyone. I also don't like the methods for ranking schools by the number of AP/IB tests</p>
<p>Originally Posted by ObserverNy
"IBO is NOT a peace making organization, it does NOT promote whirled peas"</p>
<p>Did someone mention "whirled peas"???</p>
<p>rwlavalley</p>
<p>You are fortunate that you have chosen to live in a district that is "transparent" with its students results. The district I live in is not. The district Owlice lives in is not. The main problem I have with IB is the lack of consistency in the implementation of the program while claiming an international standard. I take it your current district does not offer Honors level courses. I happen to believe there are a lot of kids who aren't AP or IB but who would do well in an Honors level course. That's just my opinion. When my son was in HS, IB wasn't an issue. We had Basic, Honors and AP. He was mostly an Honors student except for Math. Up until that point, I had been involved in the schools in a positive manner, founding and chairing an elementary science fair, VP of SEPTA, member of the Site Based Management Team, involved with hiring committees, volunteering as Class Mom or other activities. It wasn't until IB was brought into our district (2004) in a concealed and deceptive manner that I got involved with investigating it. The "informational" meeting I referred to that apparently scared some readers, was scheduled for October '04, well after the Board had approved it. Parents thought IB was a nice "extra" program, not something that would take over the school and eliminate Honors and AP. I lobbied to bring back AP, the Board agreed, but only on paper. Since that time, we have had complete turnover of every Principal and top administrator in our district. We have lost many good teachers who were trained in IB to other non-IB districts because they just couldn't deal with the administrative nonsense and politics of the district. From the years 2001-2007, I saw our students become "invisible". The Principal stopped all displays of student work, updating of awards, recording of committee minutes. The district could not produce any proof of investigation of IB with the exception of a "visit" to another IB school and a complaint to Jay Mathews that it thought it should be higher on his Newsweek List. The school stopped reporting mean class SAT scores. Board of Ed meetings were reduced from two to one a month. Deals spending public money are made behind closed doors. All of the TOP school district in my area have rejected IB. Most of those schools have between 15-25 AP course offerings. My district now offers 3-4 AP courses when it used to offer 13. </p>
<p>You can call my information propaganda if it makes you feel better, at least you are honest enough to recognize that IBO is pumping out its fair share. I didn't "picket" outside the school. I printed up fliers at my own expense advising people of an upcoming meeting and passed them out as they walked from their cars to the school along with a friend who is the daughter of one of the Village's Mayors, who sadly just passed in December. That Mayor addressed our Board and wrote a long opinion piece for the paper about IB being "superfluous". Ironically, she was from Wales.</p>
<p>IB is not only "sold" as being for "everyone as long as they want to work hard", it requires PYP schools to become entirely IB once it has its foot in the door. IB has caused redistricting problems and controversy in many different States. I have supporters in Michigan, Texas, Nebraska, Utah, New Hampshire, Pennsylvania and of course New York. You can choose to dismiss me as a kook, there's nothing I can do to stop you. However, I'm not delusional enough to compare myself to Ghandi or Mandela like Rod Blagojevich, but yeah, this is my quest, this is my crusade. I am fundamentally opposed to IB on so many levels that any glimmer of quality is completely negated by my concerns. </p>
<p>I don't like being tricked, I don't like being lied to, and most of all, I don't like seeing children denied opportunities and our taxdollars wasted. That's not propaganda, that's what happened here. It may not be happening where you are. Be thankful.</p>
<p>Owlice,</p>
<p>I have amended my position to only condone the full IB DP program being offered in charter/magnet or private schools as a stand-alone program. It does not belong in general public high schools. The results out of Singapore are unassailable. They are proof positive that if kids are pre-qualified for the program and made to take the full DP, the results will be excellent.</p>
<p>If you buy a diet program, but only do a part of it, is it going to be AS effective? If your goal was to lose 20 pounds (get the IB Diploma) but you only lose 2 pounds (an IB Certificate course) are you satisfied? Was it worth what you spent on the full program you were told you would lose 20 pounds on?</p>
<p>Hi there WhirledPeas. Love your handle. ;-)</p>
<p>You know observer; I was born in the inner city. I live my entire childhood through the age of 17 in urban areas in the New York City/New Jersey area. Any educational system is only as good as the school. I have seen some really crappy schools I've see some really good schools. Yet both schools fell under the same state educational guidelines and requirements. Now some people will say it's all about money. Indirectly, I agree. Basically, what makes a school good or not is the "PARENT'S INVOLVEMENT". Unfortunately, in poorer neighborhoods, parents are much less involved. Maybe it's because they themselves are less educated or because of economics, they don't have the time or the family structure to allow at least one of the parents to be involved deeply with their child's education. I have also seen this in more affluent neighborhoods where parents feel that they are paying the schools/teachers; therefor they should get the job done and not bother the parents.</p>
<p>The point is; just because your school or a couple of others have problems implementing a program like the IB program, doesn't make the IB program itself bad. Our school did NOT lose 1 AP class or ANY class because of adding the IB program. Those who didn't participate in the IB program had the same exact amount of classes to choose from that they had available prior to the IB program. Then again, our public school system is VERY parent involved. But the be honest, and to lend some validity to your position, I know quite a few high schools growing up in the New York city area, where an IB program never would have succeeded. And it definitely could have taken money away from other programs. Some schools are so far behind that they need to improve their teaching and graduation percentages of the core basic classes before they start offering IB programs. For that matter, they probably shouldn't be offering AP or anything else until they get the core education taken care of. Then again, that is why I am for vouchers to allow parents to send their kids to any school they want. I personally think in a large enough town/city, that a high school that ONLY offered the core education along with the "normal" associated electives and such; e.g. all classes EXCEPT for AP and IB; would be the perfect school for the "Average" student. The ones who get "C" and "B" and don't strive for more. Of course, this would be TOTALLY up to the parent to decide. Then, there could be another high school that offered ONLY the IB program and AP classes. Again, this is assuming the town/city was large enough to support multiple high schools. Many cities are; but there are many smaller cities/towns that only have 1 high school. The method would allow resources to be used more efficiently among the students.</p>
<p>But again; for us to have this discussion or debate, you would first have to admit that there are a lot of redeeming qualities to the IB program. That it is beneficial to many students. That it can help prepare students for college; like the original post was trying to determine. Just as I have admitted that it, as well as AP classes, isn't meant for everyone. Remember; College IS NOT MEANT FOR EVERYONE! Students should be allowed to attend college if they want and can meet minimum standards; however, no child should be forced to attend by their parents or made to feel guilty if they don't. f you can admit that, then we have a common denominator to work from. However, if you continue on saying that the IB program is just a tool by the UN and other organizations to develop a "New World Order" and "One World Government" though our children's generation; then it's not possible to talk to you. You post a lot of references, but non of those references prove your one world government theory. But you also refuse to concede any redeeming qualities to the IB program. So, I guess the ball is in your court. If you want to discuss the topic, you need to come to the table. Remember, you're the one spouting the "Evil" of the IB program. It is up to you to prove it. Sorry, but trying to say; None are so blind as those who refuse to see; is not an answer, nor is it proof. You are very good as spinning words, but I see right through you. Unfortunately, most of your "Proof", for a lack of a better word, is held by the minority or by the ignorant who know almost nothing about the program. I.e. The naive parent that has been scared into believing the IB program is a cult or a way to take control of their children.</p>
<p>So, if you've got something constructive to say about this topic, I welcome it. (Sorry, but I feel that very little of what you've written so far has been constructive. Or even informative). This thread was started to see how many student's college and professional lives have been affected by the IB program. I think it's a very good thread. Obviously, you wouldn't have any real input on this considering you believe the IB program to be inherently evil. But you definitely make this thread passionate. Or at least 7+ pages more than it needed to be.</p>
<p>And again, your comments would be interesting if it had something to do with what this thread was all about. You have made it your forum and not the original intent. </p>
<p>I never called you a kook. I did call the website as propaganda and here is what it means from an online dictionary:</p>
<p>Main Entry: pro·pa·gan·da<br>
Pronunciation: ˌprä-pə-ˈgan-də, ˌprō-\
Function: noun
Etymology: New Latin, from Congregatio de propaganda fide Congregation for propagating the faith, organization established by Pope Gregory XV 1623
Date: 1718
1 capitalized : a congregation of the Roman curia having jurisdiction over missionary territories and related institutions
2: the spreading of ideas, information, or rumor for the purpose of helping or injuring an institution, a cause, or a person
3: ideas, facts, or allegations spread deliberately to further one's cause or to damage an opposing cause ; also : a public action having such an effect</p>
<p>As you can see, it has meanings which reflect exactly what you said you were all about.....furthering your cause or to damange an opposing cause - propaganda.</p>
<p>But again, can you tell me how your opinion/cause has anything to do with my original set of questions except to keep anyone from answering the questions? Also, can you explain if AP is so great, how someone can get 67% correct and get a 5 on the test. I realize I went to school many years ago and not in the great state of NY or took a regent test, but 67% was a failing grade and not one which got an A.</p>
<p>So far:</p>
<p>119 of 123 respondents said that IB was helpful in preparing them for colleges. 2 of the 123 said sort of. Only 2 said that it did not help.</p>
<p>8 of the top 10 schools in US were represented in the responses. Over 76 different colleges were represented in the survey.</p>
<p>110 were full IB diploma graduates and 13 were certificate graduates.</p>
<p>83 of the 123 have already graduated from college (all 83 in 4 years or less)
39 of the respondents were still in college (30 had or have GPAs greater than 3.5 and all have GPA greater than 3.0)</p>
<p>1 did not graduate from college (oh btw, he is a an executive for a large company making a large salary after a couple yrs in college).</p>
<p>Oddly, I am massively pro-IB but I suddenly see ObserverNY's point(s). Our local elementary school wanted time for teacher collaboration. The educators and administrators felt additional time for training and communication would be beneficial. Sounds terrific, doesn't it? Then came the sneakiest, weirdest campaign by our superintendent to get the program rammed down the community's throats. He wanted what he wanted and by yesterday. No time for discussion, for questions, for improvements. He lied. He flat lied about the cost and the reduction of teacher/student contact time. </p>
<p>That was four years ago. Say "teacher collaboration" and I absolutely froth at the mouth. I and other concerned parents were bulldozed by a handful of determined educators who were breathtakingly arrogant and uncaring about anyone else's concerns. </p>
<p>Too bad. The concept of teacher collaboration has some legitimate strengths. Sorry, NY that you were traumatized. Our IB program (different school, different admins than the elementary) is going along and serving most students that I talk to rather well.</p>
<p>If I can bud in? My experience with the IB Program offered in my child high school was pure nightmare. If a school offer a wide range of courses to choose from, I guess there is an advantage in participating. However, my child's school only offered 5 courses/years, and a student cannot deviate from the path, otherwise he/she is out of the IB Program. My concern was Mathematic Studies (a course I never heard of before). I spent weeks trying to reach someone in the IB office, to no avail. Then I phoned US universities as well as Canadian universities to found out if they accept IB Math Studies as a math course. Every single university I phoned told me: NO, and especially if a student want to go into science. So basically my child was being riped off. I removed her from the program. So I guess if a school is very serious about it, it has its advantage. At our school, parents have to pay for the IB exams, so I believe somehow money is a big issue with our school. Does a school receive money for its participation to the IB Program? Also IB do not have to show numbers if less than 7 students from a specific state received a diploma. Interesting!!!</p>
<p>Have you been through IB or have a child who graduated from IB? If so, can you post your responses or your child's responses once you ask them? Or send me a message with the answers if you are concerned about sharing on the thread.</p>
<p>My child did not graduate IB. I removed him from the program, mid junior year. Like I said, our school only offer 5 specific courses junior year and 5 specific courses senior year. Basically, senior year complemented junior year, as the courses are the same except for Theory of Knowledge, in lieu of Math, senior year. No physics, nor chemistry if you are an IB student. At our school, the program is very limited, as you can see.</p>
<p>Oups! Sorry rwlavalley. I though you were writing to me.</p>
<p>Hoppinglass,</p>
<p>Thank you for recognizing the tactics some administrators and Boards of Ed use to ram through IB. You sound like an involved parent if you were interested in "teacher collaboration" prior to IB. The average uninvolved parent who only cares about getting their kid to cheerleading practice wouldn't be familiar with that term. </p>
<p>Nobody likes to be had. Nobody likes to be made to feel like a schmuck. Because IB is so expensive, SOME administrators and BoE's feel the need to approve the IB application process without the public getting wind of what they are really doing. They tell the public that they are "looking into IB" when in fact, they've already submitted the rather hefty downpayment of over $50,000, 2 years in advance of any class actually being taught.</p>
<p>My position has always been: If IB is so great, why all the secrecy?</p>
<p>afadad,</p>
<p>
[QUOTE]
But you also refuse to concede any redeeming qualities to the IB program. So, I guess the ball is in your court. If you want to discuss the topic, you need to come to the table.
[/QUOTE]
</p>
<p>Is your name Nancy Pelosi? Because you sound an awful lot like her. I need to accept your position or else I'm not worth discussing the topic with? Sorry. Don't ask me questions then. Simple as that. </p>
<p>Eucalyptus,</p>
<p>My daughter's HS is very similar to yours. The first two years it offered IB, we only had 2 SL IB Math courses. HL IB Math was only added last year and I believe there are 12 students in it. The SL Math Studies course is definitely a high school level course for those who don't wish to pursue anything dealing with math in college. Your point also goes to prove that the "rigor" of the IB Diploma isn't all it's cracked up to be, depending on how it is implemented.</p>
<p>rwlavalley:</p>
<p>
[QUOTE]
I will admit I am an IB advocate
[/QUOTE]
</p>
<p>I'm shocked. Simply shocked.............. NOT!</p>
<p>But thank you for stating that to the forum and admitting your bias as it pertains to your "research".</p>
<p>rwlavalley:</p>
<p>Here's an IB graduate for you:</p>
<p>What a nice looking boy. I was seriously going to root for him as I feel he is at a psychological disadvantage having been told how superior he is, being that he is an IB graduate from Florida. Again, let me preface, NOT the kid's fault. I blame the programme and the hype that surrounds it.</p>
<p>He got stuck on what I felt was the weaker team but when it came to the Challenge, the weaker team pulled ahead. The final portion of the Challenge involved a maze-like puzzle. Enter IB boy. The puzzle involved working with a team member to manipulate a game piece on a string through a maze. IB boy and his teammate struggled. They seemed stuck in one spot. The other team pulled from behind and easily solved the puzzle before IB boy.</p>
<p>Outwit, outplay, outlast.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Is your name Nancy Pelosi? Because you sound an awful lot like her. I need to accept your position or else I'm not worth discussing the topic with? Sorry. Don't ask me questions then. Simple as that.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>No, you don't have to accept my position. The reason you're not worth discussing the topic with, is because you haven't brought any compelling information to the debate. Our debate could have easily consisted of you saying; "IB Sucks". Me saying; "Why". You saying; "Because, it does". Nothing that you have presented impresses me as being an unbiased truth that supports your "Theories" of one world government. See, you tend to jump the subject. You talk about how it's a big UN world takeover program. Yet, when you can't support that position, you start talking about how it wouldn't be so bad if it was not so secretive.</p>
<p>I'm willing to concede that the program has some areas that need improving on. I already admitted that. I'm willing to discuss that. But you've made it clear that you are close minded to the possibility that IB has any redeeming values. As such, if you believe that the program is 100% evil, and that there isn't one thing about it worth any value, and you're quite passionate about that position, then there's nothing to discuss. Debating and discussions are designed to allow 2 or more opposing views to be discussed with the possibility of one or more sides re-evaluating their opinion or position. You've made it clear that you are all knowing and that you won't even consider being wrong. That is why you aren't WORTH discussing the topic.</p>
<p>so, now that we discussed the IB program to a dead end. And we've now discussed why you aren't worthy discussing such a topic. Unless you have something specific to contribute to how a specific student that YOU KNOW PERSONALLY was affected in college or the work place with their experience with the IB program; as the original poster started this thread on; then you really have nothing else of importance to contribute to this thread. But by all means start your own thread on why the "IB Progam is evil and is taking over the world". I'm sure you'll get a lot of posters.</p>
<p>The POINT that seems to completely go over afdad's head, is that this issue is all about BALANCE. Life..... is about BALANCE.</p>
<p>I am thrilled to learn that my website is being linked to as BALANCE from the following:</p>
<p>rwlavalley announced that he is an IB advocate. I am the BALANCE.</p>
<p>I went past the edit time allowed, but I would like to amend the above post before I dash off to NYC....</p>
<p>Our website, WE are the BALANCE.</p>
<p>There's power in numbers.</p>
<p>Just this week, TAIB received e-mails from concerned parents in Florida and Nebraska asking for help. Their districts are slashing millions from budgets, cutting athletics and increasing class sizes while clinging to IB.</p>
<p>This has gone far beyond a discussion. This is a movement.</p>
<p>Not to ObserverNY - To others on the thread:</p>
<p>
[quote]
Here's an IB graduate for you:</p>
<p>Polk County Democrat > Archives > News > Local > IB Graduate Featured On CBS’s Survivor Reality Show</p>
<p>What a nice looking boy. I was seriously going to root for him as I feel he is at a psychological disadvantage having been told how superior he is, being that he is an IB graduate from Florida. Again, let me preface, NOT the kid's fault. I blame the programme and the hype that surrounds it.</p>
<p>He got stuck on what I felt was the weaker team but when it came to the Challenge, the weaker team pulled ahead. The final portion of the Challenge involved a maze-like puzzle. Enter IB boy. The puzzle involved working with a team member to manipulate a game piece on a string through a maze. IB boy and his teammate struggled. They seemed stuck in one spot. The other team pulled from behind and easily solved the puzzle before IB boy.</p>
<p>Outwit, outplay, outlast.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Does this mean that IB is a bad program becasue the boy did not win in a televised competition? Oh, and having been in an IB program he was at "psychological disadvantage, having been told how superior he was" ???
What an argument, ha?</p>
<p>Oh, and that link above, from Hong Kong , is another discussion board. Wonder how many places we here are linked to already;)
Drop it guys. It is like trying to turn a deadly twister - better to avoid it ...</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Very strange scenario, as it basically cuts students from pursuing IB Math HL.
Was the school already registered as an IB school or was it in the process (that generally takes a few years) to become a full IB school?
The schools that are IB candidates in my area are generally offering core subjects: math, sciences, english and only one foreign language. As the program grows, becomes fully accredited with IB, it offers more subjects.</p>