International? IS IT FAIR FOR US???

Transfer Students
21

<p>Most of the international students in this thread act as if they have a birthright to a US education. I would say the simple fact that you are considered for admission is more than generous, international applicants have to be better than their American counterparts, and rightfully so, can you imagine the kind of stats and essays you would need to be considered better than the average transfer admit to HYS?</p>

<p>Consider yourself lucky that they took the time to read your application, but drop the righteous attitude because you don't have a leg to stand on. If I was applying to Oxford or Cambridge I wouldn't think it would be unfair that I wasn't admitted based on being an international student, those that have paid the taxes for the services in that country have the right to attend not me.</p>

22

<p>what you say is right, but don't forget that US is US because of international students who are potential immigrants. Many Indians, Chinese people who immigrated from another country are far more educated than an average American.</p>

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<p>I dunno, i am getting a really bad feeling about being admitted this year.. Right now i am thinking whether i should leave University of waterloo to attend a community college in the states, hoping that they will transfer my credits over so that i can skip one year in my community college cirriculum (I already completed my first year in UW)... so i can apply as an international student within the american education system next year... do you guys recommend any community college for me to take a look at ?
Thanks for the help</p>

<p>PS i m thinking of applying to Berkeley, Harvard, Columbia, Yale, MIT and Stanford next year as a transfer applicant</p>

24

<p>it's not fair and will never be fair. If your parents are "smart" and "rich" enough to notice this, they would fly your mom to the US when she's pregnant and bear you here so you'll automatically get US citizenship. That's called "planning ahead".</p>

25

<p>
[QUOTE]
Most of the international students in this thread act as if they have a birthright to a US education. I would say the simple fact that you are considered for admission is more than generous, international applicants have to be better than their American counterparts, and rightfully so

[/QUOTE]
</p>

<p>Exactly. To be honest, it gets me annoyed when I see moaning on cc from international students who got rejected from US top 20 colleges. They've never set foot on U.S. soil but somehow have this idea that they are a smart, brilliant immigrant in a sea of lazy worthless U.S. citizens. </p>

<p>Oxford, Cambridge, Ecole Polytechnic, ETH Zurich, Imperial College, London School of Economics and other top foreign universities don't accept transfer applications from students abroad. SO BE GLAD U.S. COLLEGES EVEN CONSIDER YOU! :)</p>

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<p>vwkng1987, I don't know if coming to the us and attending some random community college really looks much better. You are better off aiming for a school that is solid but a little less prestigious but you are happy with. Try to make the most of it and, if you still feel the same way in a year, try the transfer process again. Though not sure timingwise, how realistic that is at this point. </p>

<p>It would be a gamble. Though many comm college students go on to great things, their academic achievements are often not taken as seriously because there is a common perception that it is easier to do well in a cc. Chancewise, it would probably be equal to staying where you are and showing another year of consistent results. Personally I go to a comm college and I'm very happy here, but I'm well aware that I could have received the same gpa with much less effort. Not every comm college would be the same though. </p>

<p>There are some great schools out there that you might be overlooking by focusing on the very top. And even if after a year you decide it's not the school for you, there's a better chance that establishing a strong pattern of achievement at one of those schools would look more favorable than strong results at random comm college. And it would be cool if you unwittingly found a place that you were in no hurry to leave. </p>

<p>You still have some schools to hear from too. Maybe you'll get some good news!</p>

27

<p>This "international admission" has given me many a depressed day over the past year and a half...
I went to a very competitive prep school that sends the top 33% of its class to top 15 colleges every year. Despite getting a 3.98 uw and 5.4 weighted GPA (salutatorian), getting a 1540 on the old SATs, taking 12 APs and scoring 5's on ten and 4's on two of them, getting perfect scores on the mathIIC, chem, and hebrew satIIs, getting a national merit scholarship, receiving academic awards in 14 classes, and qualifying as a finalist on the ACS olympiad, I BARELY got in to my last choice school. In terms of extra currics, btw, I played varsity bball, volunteered hardcore at a hospital, and worked for ~15 hours a week. I also speak 4 languages fluently, blah, blah.</p>

<p>So, I obviously didn't get in at my top choices: harvard, yale, and stanford.
Same with pomona, northwestern, MACALESTER!!!, Claremont McKenna...
Oh yeah, I didn't apply for fin. aid at USC and I got in with their presidential scholarship, and I got into Occidental College on a full ride one.</p>

<p>If Oxy hadn't given me that help, I'd be DONE. The lesson that I learned: don't plan on getting financial aid from American schools, as I know that not asking for money really helps an int'l's application.</p>

<p>Now I'm trying to transfer. I got a 4.0 during my frosh year, have been doing chemistry research both semesters, am now the president of debate club, chaired on my school's budget and finance committees, and work for ~10 hours a week. I only applied to 3 schools (the others don't accept int'l transfers who need money): Yale, Harvard, Williams. Will actually says it doesn't accept any int'ls, but I got my social 3 months ago so I'm hoping for leniency and luck. I have heard from Yale -> no...</p>

<p>Sorry for this rant, but the issue of int'l student admission and financial aid has really haunted me for the past year. I feel as though i have not been rewarded for all my hard work and that my FUTURE, and not just current compensation, is in serious jeopardy. </p>

<p>Thanks for reading this :)</p>

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<p>Tomahawk, I'm so sorry. You sound like an extremely accomplished applicant, and truly, it's their loss.</p>

29

<p>I applied last year as an international student. It's harder, and yeah it's not fair (especially since at the time I'd already lived in the US for 12 years). Still, it makes sense. I mean, you'd feed your own children before your neighbor's, right?</p>

30

<p>^^ if they lived in your home for 12 years wouldn't you consider them part of the family?</p>

31

<p>You guys can always try for the graduate school.
I heard it's easier to get in as international for top graduate schools like Harvard and Yale because they tend to put less weight on leadership and activities while putting much heavier emphasis on the Academics (grades and exam scores) so as long as you have a stellar GPA and Standardized Exam scores you'll fare much better than the American candidates who will be put equally heavy emphasis on academics AND activities/leadership.</p>

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<p>I feel bad for tomhawk518 :(</p>

33

<p>if you are applying for aid as an international, it becomes much harder since you are not qualified and shouldn't be qualified for any federal aid. the source of your aid depends solely on the resources of the place you are applying to, and each school has a different approach towards how much resources they devote to the financial aid for internationals. Some extremely accomplished applicants get rejected every year simply because of the schools they are applying to can't afford them, especially for kids from bulgaria(no offense, they're good candidates w/ limited financial resources themselves).</p>

<p>if you are applying aid as an international transfer, chances are you get rejected everywhere. there's hardly any money for international transfers....even at those top and rich school.</p>

<p>however, if you don't need any money, the process is more than fair. you are considered in a seperate no-need international pool and they discount their standards because you are paying for yourself and contributing a great deal to the diversity.</p>

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<p>So do you think it will be more beneficial for me if I attend a community college next year so that I have a greater chance in getting into UCBerkeley??? i mean staying in canada DEFINITELY decreases my chance as an international transfer applicant, yet I am also worried about applying to schs on the east coast if I attend a C.C. Do schs such as Harvard, Columbia, Yale, recognize C.C.s?
Will i be able to transfer my first year credits here in waterloo to those C.C.s?
Please help this is huge</p>

35

<p>i was an international F-1 student... attending community college..
Fortunately, I got my greencard a week ago.. Finally!!!
But being an international is a huge disadvantange....
especially public schools and benefits....
Vwkng1987- UC Berkeley is hard to get in as being as an international student... i got rejected this year. but i am re-applying next year as a citizen... Hopefully, I will get in...</p>

36

<p>why do you want to come study in the states? so many countries have excellent, cheap, even free, education. i don't understand why canadian or french or english students decide to pay enormous amounts of money for a probably worse education here. it would be one thing if you were after itsy bitsy liberal arts colleges, who offer such a different, more personal education than foreign universities. but harvard, rice, MIT: are you just paying for the name? or do you want to (for some reason) live in the states? go to your nearest macdo & get a cheeseburger.</p>

<p>for immigrants who have lived in the states but are not yet citizens....it's unfortunate and unfair that the admissions and aid process are against you. that's a policy i think the government and universities need to change.</p>

<p>i don't know. it's just a curiosity to me. if i wanted to attend a large university, i'd probably be banging at the gates of la sorbonne in a second. free uni. and only a couple hundred euro for foreigners....I just can't understand why a 40,000$ price tag is worth all this fuss.</p>

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<p>"for immigrants who have lived in the states but are not yet citizens....it's unfortunate and unfair that the admissions and aid process are against you. that's a policy i think the government and universities need to change."</p>

<p>agreed!</p>

38

<p>I'm sorry for anyone who feel screwed by the system...but you can't suck blood from a stone! Schools aren't able to pay for the financial needs of many internationals. </p>

<p>La Sorbonne may be cheap, but that's why their economy is stagnant. French taxpayers are heavily subsidizing every element of the environment the moment foreigners step foot in France. Although the investment that goes into French students may aid their rise in social mobility, it's an inflexible investment that fails to meet demand. This goes for many other European policies too. Systemic inflexibility means less money for the critical research grants; grants are critical in defining how technologically advanced a country is. </p>

<p>foxdie: Sure US citizens are lazy, but we're still the most technologically advanced lazy people.</p>

<p>The $40,000 plus price is small amount in comparison with the average median salary of top tiered schools.</p>

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<p>Errr...what I meant to say was, the high avg. med. salary will pay off in the long run. The potential life time earnings is much more important than the short term costs of college.</p>

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<p>Nah, i wanna come to the states because i wanna start something big... i dun want a job for the money, i dun want to look for money when i graduate.. Most big corporations are born in the states, and if i wanna be an entreprenuer, i want an environment where i have the POTENTIAL of becoming huge...</p>