<p>If int'l students were getting rejected in large numbers by "average" universities in the US then it might be concerning. But you're talking about the friggin' Ivy League, MIT, Stanford, UChicago, etc. Get of your soapbox and understand the competition.</p>
<p>Admission is never fair for international students, especially for international transfers. Just look at how many school write in their application instructions that financial needs are an important factor in considering an international transfer applicant! Even CMU does that! But on the other side, it is quite reasonable, just like US students have to pay more or have a competitive academic standing to study abroad.</p>
<p>There is no point crying over this situation. I am an international student too. When I applied as a freshman, I was prepared for such "hardship". =] This year I tried transferring; and U of Rochester kindly let me in with the maximal amount of scholarship they can offer (FA isn't available to intls in UR). It isn't a top school like Harvard or Yale, but, all things considered, I am definitely content with the result.</p>
<p>To all international guys, you might as well have a break from complaining and do the best you can. =] Even if you are NOT admitted to any of the colleges, i think it is by all means a valuable experience.</p>
<p>"do you want to (for some reason) live in the states? go to your nearest macdo & get a cheeseburger." (sarahtaq, 2007)</p>
<p>Excuse me, no offense but...."sarahtaq", where did your ancestors come from? I will shut up if your are a descendant of the Native American. Wait... were they not also from Asia? I really don't know... Can someone help me with that riddle?? </p>
<p>[perplexed]...</p>
<p>"Oxford, Cambridge, Ecole Polytechnic, ETH Zurich, Imperial College, London School of Economics and other top foreign universities don't accept transfer applications from students abroad. SO BE GLAD U.S. COLLEGES EVEN CONSIDER YOU!" (foxdie!, 2007)</p>
<p>I thought they just never take in any transfer, be it domestic or international ... That's what my friends told me...</p>
<p>and my downward spiral continues.</p>
<p>At the risk of sounding redundant I'll say, what's fair about any of this ? First of all, no one is owed a place at any university. They choose you, and if they don't want you, that's just the way it goes. I think it's justifiably harder for international transfers to get into American universites. I hope you won't think me unkind for saying so, but the job of an American university is to educate American people first and foremost. I believe internationals should be given places because so many of them are clearly intelligent, talented individuals. But educating Americans comes first.</p>
<p>Furthermore, the university's alumni network would be substantially weakened if a large number of their students simply went back to their home country after receiving an American education. Not always the case, but a legitimate concern.</p>
<p>This is surely an interesting topic. I feel you can get a way around both (fair/unfair).</p>
<p>Fair: Some schools regard Intl students as the source of funding. Espeically Public universities. I ve known a couple of ppl who got admitted to UVA with sub par stats. They pay their 200K tuition by themselves. Just imagine if public schools offered spots to 100 intl students. how much profit the schools can earn from it?</p>
<p>Unfair: for the fancy/elite schools. a lot of the ppl need to compete with foremost the best students in USA. The spots are limited. I believe Americans are defiantely considered before Intl students..</p>
<p>^^ i understand spots are limited, and don't necessarily disagree with considering american students before intl' students. perhaps i should have done more research before applying, and been a tad more realistic about my chances.</p>
<p>UVa's has about $900,000,000 expenditures each year, most of which is funded by US citizens. 100 international students paying 50K for 4 years is hardly profitable. The University and city inevitably shares some of its subsidized benefits, such as power and water, to international students who haven't contributed to the system too. The profit is negative to the University, but hopefully positive to our society.</p>
<p>Again, you're getting a deal for $200,000. University directors never enroll international students for profit. They do it to aid those in need.</p>
<p>If you think about it, just buying a simple machine for the physics lab could cost $3+ million.</p>
<p>listen man, all i was saying--which I'm sure a clever reader could surmise--is that america isn't such a great place to live. i'm an american citizen, my parents are naturalized american citizens and i'm living abroad. i was just questioning the value of american culture and american education. i'm not saying 'keep those furreners outta here', i'm asking them why they are so eager to leave a system which is significantly cheaper and probably just as good. karcher comments of course, tongue in cheek, i was all for sego.</p>
<p>perhaps, as a humanities student, i can't understand this whole "i wanna be big, i wanna make it big" idea. i'm not going to college to "make it big", i don't see a fancy job as the payoff for my time in school. i'm going to college to learn and do what I love. and then i'm going to be homeless and live in a box.</p>
<p>also: the admissions process is flawed. always, even at top schools, a wealthy student will be given preference. Schools which claim to be need blind usually aren't. There are always going to be rich duds at Columbia or Harvard because they pay tuition for the rest of us. It's the same thing, although surely on a greater scale, for international students.</p>
<p>^^ i think this has gotten a little ot, but i feel a need to respond. first off, to say america isn't a great place to live is only a statement an american could make. i come from a part of the world where running water, indoor toilets, clean drinking water, and electricity are a thing of the future. life in america is far greater than life in the cesspool i called home. my home is a part of the world civilization and progress have left behind, and i managed to leave just in time before foreigners took over with their propaganda and islamic fundamentalism, and created a haven for terrorism. there are no rights in the province i called home. everyday there are fears of revolt against government, creating individual sects of rebel units and giving birth to "tribalism". education is an afterthought to many, as ones safety and fight for survival take precedent. i am glad to call america home, and one day hope to become a citizen. </p>
<p>with regard to education, in my country only the rich enjoy such privledges. those who reside in rural territories (such as i did) are often extremely poor, and are relegated to what little education we could receive from the catholic church (well, before foreigners all but dismantled them). an education is a privledge not afforded to people like me, and had i not come to america shortly after my fathers murder, i would have never been able to experience the luxury of an education. i do not go to school in america simply because i want to "make it big". i attend school because i love it, and attend school in america as this is the only part of the world which allows for people like to attend. sorry if my statement might seem a little unclear, as this is little more than a rant from off the "dome", and i get a little emotional when speaking about such things. however, to question the value of american culture, and to question the value of an american education, insults the many tax payers and governement officials who make my education possible. it is for these people i am eternally grateful, and who i literally can credit with giving me a fighting chance of making something of myself. </p>
<p>please don't take any of this as an insult or an argument against your beliefs, as everybody is entitled to their own. i hold nothing against you, or others who feel as you do. just keep in mind many others have similar life experiences as i do, and hold american culture and an american education in the highest regard.</p>
<p>edit: forgot to mention, but the city i'm from is under nearly 24 hour lockdown, and operates under martial law. again, not a fun place to be.</p>
<p>to the post posted behind JNA</p>
<p>please take notes: UVA and other public schools have no fin aid for intl stuents what so ever. I dont really think UVA's education worthes that much. I can buy a house with the200,000 USD...</p>
<p>Seeing as you're a business major, the median starting salary for UVa is $50,000. Join the league of ibankers and you'll be starting with $70K plus. Are you that impatient that you can't wait at least 4 years to buy a house?</p>
<p>Walnut, are you a domestic student? If you are, then we are holding different point of view. i didnt say public schools such as UVA,UMICH are bad. They are just not as cost efficient for Intl students. Many of us will return home country to look for jobs. Ivy league schools are more recognized internationally. Sometimes, if an international student had the choice to choose between an awesome public school and an ivy league one (ivy league one will be more expensive by several thousands of dollars) I think most of the people will choose the ivy league. It's surely great to earn 50,000 but if i can earn 70,000 is better.</p>
<p>by all means, its all personal opinions</p>
<p>I dont want to argue :)</p>
<p>Oh yeah, don't worry nothing here is personal. I'm not trying to make you angry or anything, just trying to dig for pros and cons in this scenario. I'm a domestic but my parents were both international students.</p>
<p>CX3, I'd argue the alumni network is made stronger, definitely not weaker, by having access to alumni and their projects all over the world.</p>
<p>I think jna's post serves us all well to remember this important little fact: our Western lifestyle is affluent beyond belief. 4/6 of the world's population live under $2 a day - allowing international students more ready access to educational systems here is not only just, it also benefits the student bodies of these institutions. Those of us who've come from the rougher edges of the world can share things you simply can't learn in a sheltered classroom.</p>
<p>I understand and respect the argument that US schools should prioritize US students, but I don't think this is mutually exclusive to creating more international, truly diverse student bodies.</p>
<p>"Those of us who've come from the rougher edges of the world can share things you simply can't learn in a sheltered classroom."</p>
<p>well put. this is precisely why most international applicants are so important to an institutions student body.</p>
<p>just a random question. no offense. honestly, do ppl get to go to u.s. are really the ppl coming from the rougher edges?</p>
<p>for east asians at least i know, those ppl go to some of the best schools in their home countries, have upper class parents to provide education.</p>
<p>i feel its more like just a diversity of thinking.</p>
<p>"for east asians at least i know, those ppl go to some of the best schools in their home countries, have upper class parents to provide education."</p>
<p>i am from south east asia and can tell you honestly, i did not attend the finest institutions in my homeland. i agree that many might, but to make a blanket statement like that fails to consider others in my position.</p>