International Student - Financial Aid really "need blind"?

Colleges and Universities A-Z Cornell University
1

<p>Hi everyone,
i'm an international student applying ED to Cornell CoE.</p>

<p>I was wondering if the financial aid policy is really need blind as i've heard mixed opinions from other people.</p>

<p>I would still be able to go even if i don't receive any aid, however, it is obviously less pressure having some aid.</p>

<p>So my question is, will applying for financial aid hurt my chances? I've heard from some people that the FA office are completely separately from the engineering admission committee, however others have told me that this is not the case for international students and that not only are aid limited, but also they can hurt ones chances to get in.</p>

<p>i'm also curious about the two boxes on the common app (need based aid/ merit based aid). If applying for aid does hurt application chances, would only selecting "merit based aid" rather than selecting "need based aid" be fine?</p>

<p>Thanks!</p>

2

<p>From what I know, Cornell doesn’t offer merit aids. Need-based aid is offered to internationals, but limited. Cornell is need blind and views all applications equally regardless of whether FA is needed, but internationals may not get enough, or any, aid even if they are accepted.</p>

3

<p>Yes that’s what i’ve heard from the website.</p>

<p>However, since they’ve also clearly stated that students can be released from ED if not satisfied with FA, wouldn’t that give admission officers an incentive to favor applicants that don’t need financial aid so that students don’t decide to “back out” from the binding agreement?</p>

<p>I’m wary because other colleges such as Columbia has clearly stated that declaring financial aid will hurt chances. (worded nicely obviously, something along the lines of "will be taken into admission consideration)</p>

4

<p>

</p>

<p>Cornell tends to be much more transparent with its admissions policies than most other schools. If Cornell wasn’t need blind for internationals, you would know about it.</p>

5

<p>

</p>

<p>It doesn’t tell you what they mean by limited basis, as in what criteria do they use to give out FA on a limited basis. For US residents it is need blind, but not for international students based on the statement above.</p>

<p>The way I would read it is there is a limited fund for Internationals. They will give it to top applicants, but not to everyone. If you want to apply for FA they will review it, but if they determine that you MUST have FA in order to attend Cornell, AND you are not a top applicant, it is very likely you would be denied admission. On the other hand, if you do not need FA and you are a qualified applicant, you would have a better chance of being admitted.</p>

<p>I disagree with that an international may not get enough if admitted with FA. I think it is more likely that Cornell would provide FA to fewer internations, but would provide sufficient FA to admitted students.</p>

<p>Correct me if I am wrong on internationals in this country…Before an international is granted a visa, he/she needs to show there is enough fund (tuition, room and board) for the length of stay.</p>

6

<p>

</p>

<p>No. All admissions decisions – for US residents and international students alike – are need blind. Applying for aid as an international student will not hurt your chance of admission.</p>

7

<p>What do they exactly mean it’s given out on a limited basis?</p>

8

<p>aid is reserved for US students. Only a few internationals apply and receive any financial aid. What their criteria is for determining who does and who does not get aid is beyond me.</p>

9

<p>At the same time, Cornell’s international FA application also states:</p>

<p>

</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.admissions.cornell.edu/apply/international/InternationalFinancialAidApplication.pdf[/url]”>http://www.admissions.cornell.edu/apply/international/InternationalFinancialAidApplication.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>It is not very transparent to me.</p>

10

<p>Last admissions cycle there was a particular poster who had a lengthy conversation with the admissions office on this exact question.</p>

<p>What was revealed? Cornell WILL accept you and refuse to give you FA, even if you demonstrate need. This means Cornell is need-blind in admissions, but has a limited amount of funds they are willing to dole out. You are not guaranteed funding if you apply for it, but applying for funding will not adversely affect your admissions decision.</p>

11

<p>Oldfort, what part of the following do you not understand?</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>The OP was curious as to whether or not applying for aid would affect his chances of getting into the school. It would not. Case closed.</p>

12

<p>Which part of limited basis do you not understand? Once you graduated from Cornell you do not remember what limited means? If it’s limited then it would most certainly hurt his chance of getting admitted if he is applying for FA unless he is a super duper applicant. Don’t be naive.</p>

13

<p>

</p>

<p>Sorry, oldfort, you’re the one who can’t read here. My Cornell degree is still worth the sheepskin it was printed on. Get your daughter involved in this – we’ll see what her Cornell education taught her.</p>

<p>Acceptance to the university and provision of financial aid are completely independent processes at Cornell. Independent means that they are in no way related. Put another way, in no way does one’s application for financial aid affect one’s admissions decision.</p>

<p>You are right that provision of financial aid is on a limited basis for internationals. But acceptance to the University is in no way associated with provision of financial aid, and the ad coms do not take abillity to pay in their admissions decisions. Nor do they take whether or not the applicant applied for aid.</p>

<p>Cornell will not necessarily fully meet fully demonstrated need for internationals. </p>

<p>Again: The OP was wondering if applying for financial aid will hurt his admissions chances. It will not.</p>

14

<p>You are very naive. Cornell education has not served you well. Your problem maybe your degree still has sheepskin it was printed on. But my daughter is more sophisticated than that.</p>

15

<p>Cornell wants students who would be successful at school, and it means admitting students who could graduate in 4 years. It takes both intelligence (GPA, SATs) and finance (family’s ability to pay and Cornell’s ability to give out adequate FA) to ensure a student could graduate on time.</p>

<p>I didn’t read anywhere that Cornell wouldn’t meet full need for internationals, only it’s limited. It would be more reasonable to assume (without any concrete evidence) that Cornell would offer FA to limited number of internationals, but would meet full demonstrated need.</p>

16

<p>I really appreciate your opinions on this subject.
However, i’m again hearing mixed opinions…</p>

<p>While some have stated that applying for aid will NOT at all hurt my chances, (FA is separate from admission), but is limited (meaning they won’t give 100% need).</p>

<p>Others have stated that unless i’m a top student, it will affect admission… </p>

<p>I’m very confused.</p>

<p>:(</p>

17

<p>

</p>

<p>I’m not certain what your argument or line of reasoning is. Half of the above sentences don’t even make sense.</p>

<p>The OP asked whether or not applying for financial aid as an international student will have any bearing on his chance of admission. As Cornell is need-blind for international students, it would not. Nobody in the admissions office has any idea as to whether or not any particular international applicant has applied for financial aid, thus they have no basis to take into account such matters.</p>

<p>What is true is that Cornell will not be able to meet full financial need for all accepted international students. Aid for accepted international students is limited, so it is, thus, given out a limited basis.</p>

<p>You seem to be suggesting that Cornell tacitly wants to accept more rich students. Nothing could be further from the truth.</p>

<p>To the OP: Please apply to Cornell and feel free to apply for financial aid. Applying for financial aid will not affect your chances of admission. The worst that would happen is that you don’t get any financial aid.</p>

18

<p>Let me try again to put it more plainly so you may understand it. Cornell may not tacityly trying to accept “rich” students, but they do need students who could afford the tuition, especially when it has limited fund for international students. Cornell needs to look at its yield and be efficient about its admission process. It takes a lot of work to decide whether to admit a student or not. The reality of situation is it does cost 50k+ to go to Cornell. You may think ability to afford full pay implies a family is rich, not necessary, rich is a relative term.</p>

<p>It is no different than when we try to recruit staff at work - we like to make offers to people who would most likely to accept, especially if space is limited. Hiring managers lose credibility when offers are rejected too often by candidates.</p>

<p>To OP - there is no magic answer for you because if we knew THE answer then everyone would act accordingly. On the other hand, it could be very simple for you. If you like Cornell and you need FA then that’s what you will need to do, otherwise you wouldn’t be able to afford Cornell anyway. Cornell is not worth 250k in loans. If you do not need FA then it doesn’t pay too apply for FA because you will not get it. The only thing I would say is if you are on the borderline (EFA around 5K) then it would be to your advantage to not apply FA. I will always stand by that not needing FA is a hook, especially for internationals.</p>

<p>Cy2005 - the reason I said you are naive is because you are still very literal. You believe in everything you read, especially when it comes to Cornell. I get it that you love Cornell, but the school is no different than any other instituion, it has its good and bad. The fact you posted that Cornell is very transparent about its international FA policy is false, otherwise OP wouldn’t be so confused.</p>

19

<p>

</p>

<p>Not really. And it would be best if you tried not to assume things about me. But thanks for trying. I certainly have not assumed anything about you. And your ad homimen attacks are getting ridiculous.</p>

<p>Here’s where you are naive, oldfort. I know full well that Cornell would never be able to only educate poor kids. I know full well that colleges have yield estimates for each student that they consider for admission. And I know full well that demographic information is used in this calculation – they can fill in school, state/country (zip code), ethnicity, intended major, etc. and predict the likelihood that a given student will matriculate provided acceptance. It would be naive for me think that this demographic data didn’t correlate with income and hence, yield and acceptance considerations.</p>

<p>But here’s the thing you seem unable to grasp: Cornell (and other colleges) are going to use this yield estimator on every student regardless of whether or not they applied for financial aid. And Cornell is explicitly ‘need blind’ in its admissions process meaning it will not open up your financial aid application (or even know whether or not you applied for financial aid) when reviewing your application, for both international and domestic applicants alike.</p>

<p>What does that mean? That applying for financial aid can’t hurt your chance of admission. The probability of a student’s matriculation is already taken into account by all of the other demographic data that the admissions office sees, which yes, correlates to income and the probability that a student applied for financial aid. But, no, the admissions office at Cornell does not see whether or not you applied for financial aid.</p>

<p>All the OP asked about was whether or not applying for financial aid would hurt him, all things equal. It would not. </p>

<p>And forgive me for not wanting to pull in all of the sausage making into the explanation for why my answer is right and your answer is wrong. Because, frankly, it is of no use for the applicant to know – it will not affect the chances of admission either way. But it might affect his chance of applying, and hence getting in and possibly getting aid, which would be unfortunate, in my opinion. </p>

<p>So props to saying things to discourage kids. That’s awesome.</p>

<p>As for whether or not Cornell’s admissions policies are transparent/clear: they are. Cornell clearly states that it is need blind (e.g. whether or not they applied for financial aid) for all international students in terms of their acceptance. And it clearly states that it cannot meet all demonstrated need for international students.</p>

<p>(OP: Please apply to Cornell. And please apply for financial aid. Doing so will not affect your chance of admission. And please ignore busy-body mothers who like to think they know what they are talking about.)</p>

20

<p>Cy2005 - I really don’t think you have a clue about life. It’s very nice that you think you are offering some limited information you may have about applying to college and finance, but you really are not helping OP because you are just spreading Adcom’s propanganda here. Adcom does not need to open any applicant’s FA application to know if someone is applying for FA - there is a check box on Commonn Application, no? (Do you intend to apply for need base FA, yes, no)</p>

<p>If you read my post carefully, at no time did I discourage OP (or anyone) in applying to Cornell. What I am saying here is he needs to be realistic and with a strategy. Limited is limited, who do you think they would want to give limited FA to? Common sense tells me it would be to top applicants. OP needs to exam if he is such a candidate, if not it’s best to have plan B. If OP’s family could afford to pay close to full fare, then he should figure out if it’s worth it to apply for FA, especially since he is an international.</p>

<p>I am a mother, but I am also someone who has worked at some largest financial institutions and have negotiated multi-million $ contracts. What I have learned early on is how to read between the lines, when/whom to ask for inside information, and able to figure out if someone is pulling my leg. CR2005 - in your case, you have been drinking too much Kool Aid.</p>

<p>I have no more to say on this topic. If OP doesn’t get it by now, then he won’t.</p>