<p>I am writing on behalf of an international student who studied in US middle school and high schools, and about to start his senior year. His parents are resident for tax purposes, but not citizen or permanent resident. Can he apply for instate tuition? Can he apply through FAFSA? </p>
<p>In the likelihood that he is not able to apply for in-state tuition, what would be his best course of action? If he applies for out of state, can he fill out FAFSA? </p>
<p>The last option is probably to apply as an international student, change visa type to F-1. In that scenario, can he expect to get any scholarships or aids? The reason being, to apply as an international student he has to demonstrate availability of full years fund, and if he is saying that he has full funds available, then why apply for scholarship/aid?</p>
<p>I am reaching out to this great community in the hope that someone has already faced this type of situation, and gone through the process, or at least gave it some thought.</p>
<p>Any reply will be appreciated. Thanks for reading this post.</p>
<p>Has the student looked at Lawrence U in Appleton? They give great financial aid including to international students. We hosted an exchange student 3 years ago and the student we hosted now attends Lawrence. </p>
<p>@b@r!um made some comments that may answer your questions:</p>
<p>"H-4 students can qualify for in-state tuition rates at public universities in most states. (Your H-visa is important here. If you switched to an F-1 or J-1 student visa later, you would be an out-of-state student by default.)</p>
<p>The H-4 visa will NOT qualify you for federal financial aid (FAFSA, Pell Grants, Stafford Loans, etc)."</p>
<p>“In that scenario, can he expect to get any scholarships or aids?”</p>
<p>There are colleges in the US that offer need-based as well as merit-based scholarships to international students, but the aid is very limited and the competition for it is intense. You would have to do a lot of research and a lot of work to get through the process successfully. Your S would be an international student and would have to compete with internationals. What are his grades, test scores, extracurriculars?</p>
<p>“The reason being, to apply as an international student he has to demonstrate availability of full years fund, and if he is saying that he has full funds available, then why apply for scholarship/aid?”</p>
<p>‘he has to demonstrate availability of full years fund’ This can be demonstrated through the college’s scholarship/funds in addition to the funds you would pay. You apply for aid/scholarships first, and only then do you demonstrate ability to cover the rest of the costs (should you get any $$).</p>
<p>–</p>
<p>I recommend that your son research this process and research it well and apply only to schools that your family can afford (those that meet full need for international students) as well as affordable in-state schools. To maintain in-state status, he should graduate before the age of 21, I believe. Otherwise, he should try to go to a schools that offers $$ to internationals and switch to F1 if one school or the other offers enough $$.</p>
<p>Thanks to MOMINWIS, I will definitely look up Lawrence University.</p>
<p>To International95, could you please point me to an official link, if available, where it says “H-4 students can qualify for in-state tuition rates at public universities in most states…”?</p>
<p>Following are the stats of my S:</p>
<p>Unweighted GPA: 3.9
ACT: 31 (going to retake in September to improve)
EC: NHS member, Varsity soccer, volunteers at a Hospital, WI History project and few others.</p>
<p>Family contribution is not going to be much, in other words, the student DOES need to get any scholarship/aid he can get.</p>
<p>See, ‘Family contribution is not going to be much’ is really vague. To be a competitive international applicant to Lawrence, your S would need to be able to contribute about $18/year, even though Lawrence does offer more aid.</p>
<p>To those with 32 ACT and a GPA > 3.5, U of A offers full tuition. The residual cost of attendance is $14k-ish. Is this affordable for your family?</p>
<p>I’ve explained the international student admission process for those who need aid in a few threads on CC. Look at:</p>
<p>There you will find a list of liberal arts colleges that offer financial aid to international students and promise to meed your full need. Your son should apply to as many schools as possible to improve his chances, unless he scores a 32 on the ACT and is content with going to Alabama.</p>
<p>There is a LOT of research and essay-writing to do, and your S will have to step up and do it. I rarely see threads where international parents ask for advice. I sincerely hope your S is interested in this process as well.</p>
<p>If your S is interested in engineering, he could also look into Worcester Polytechnic University, as long as your family can afford at least around $17k every year (as per WPI’s website).</p>
International95 was quoting me. I came to that conclusion after I researched the tuition policies of about a dozen different states and only a single one of them treated H-visa students different from US citizens or permanent residents for tuition status determination.</p>
<p>If you tell me which state you’re in, I’ll see if I can dig up the relevant policies for that state.</p>
<p>I have a guess as to why the visa status matters so much. Some temporary non-immigrant visa categories (including F and J student visas) preclude the visa holder from establishing a legal domicile in the US, which is why most states seem to default to making these students pay out-of-state tuition rates. Other visa categories (such as H or L work visas or the K fiancee visa) allow for immigration intent and the visa holders can legally treat the US as their permanent home. Most states seem to accommodate by considering students on those visas for in-state tuition status.</p>
<p>Thanks International95, for “There is a LOT of research and essay-writing to do, and your S will have to step up and do it.” I can assure you that my S is doing a lot of research, starting early this summer and practicing his essay writing. The problem is, family contribution will most likely be in the range of 6 -8 K/yr, so he does need scholarship, no matter what.</p>
<p>From all the LAC websites that I searched, looks like they only offer Bachelor of Arts degree (it’s obvious from the name), but my S ultimately wants to study in Medicine. I am not sure if a B. of A. degree will hamper his chances of getting admission in medical schools down the road.</p>
<p>For the H-4 visa comment, our state is Wisconsin, but I thought that was understandable from my screen name. And his visa is actually even more unusual, a TD (Dependent of TN). This is temporary and does not allow for immigration intent. </p>
<p>A BA degree would NOT hamper his chances to medical schools. I think it is time for you to research the medical school admission process. The takeaway is that your S will probably NOT go into medicine as not only is there NEARLY no money available for international students at American medical schools, it is also intensely competitive for international students. Many schools don’t even accept applications from internationals. (Of course he can still be a doctor if he returns to your country)</p>
<p>I still think your S should consider Alabama and try to graduate in 3 years.</p>
<p>He will have to apply mostly to liberal arts colleges. There is no other option.</p>
<p>So I think you need to get use to terminology in the US. Even a major in the hard sciences like physics or chemistry would get you a “BA in physics” or “BA in chemistry” at many LACs.</p>
<p>Yet if you look at the list of schools that send the highest percentage of their students in to PhD programs in physics, chemistry, or the physical sciences, Reed, Carleton, and Wabash are in the top 5 in at least one of those categories (impressively, Reed is in the top 5 in virtually every discipline that they list):
<a href=“The Colleges Where PhD's Get Their Start”>http://www.thecollegesolution.com/the-colleges-where-phds-get-their-start/</a>
The bachelor’s degree from all 3 are all titled “BA”. </p>
<p>Here’s a description in the Wabash website: <a href=“Frequently Asked Questions | Admissions | Wabash College”>Frequently Asked Questions | Admissions | Wabash College;
“What academic degree would I receive from Wabash?
In four years, you would receive a Bachelor of Arts (B.A.) degree. Unlike the educational systems in many countries, in the United States “arts” refers to the Liberal Arts and Sciences. Therefore, your degree could be in one of 22 majors. The B.A. is the first step in higher education for most professional education in the United States.”</p>
<p>This same rule may NOT apply at public community colleges in the state. Some community colleges have an “in-county” tuition rate that’s based solely on physical presence and not immigration or tax status. (I don’t know about community colleges in Wisconsin specifically, so you’ll have to do the research yourself.)</p>
<p>OP, This info is of no use to you as you are in WI. But this may be useful for other international students. I heard that in some other states where there are more immigrants, they try to make it easier for the S or D of a new immigrant family to pay for college. I even heard of an extreme case that, as long as a student has been in a US high school for 2 or 3 years, he or she could be categorized as an in-state resident - independent of his/her visa status.</p>
<p>WI is apparently not one of such a state - isn’t “Walker” the governor of that state? If he still is, he would likely make it hard rather than easy for these new immigrant families to pau for college I think. His policy is even not friendly to government employee s or union workers like teachers.</p>
<p>Isn’t there a quite recent thread on CC about how a state made their college education totally free for illegal immigrants just because they are unable to make them legal in-state residents so that they can pay in-state tuitions? You got to love such a state where the meaning of legal vs illegal immigrants as well as the meaning of in-state resident status vs out-of-state resident status become very confusing.</p>
<p>
I am writing this for a student who we happen to know - not an UG student. Actually, he is in a US med school - I heard there are very few (maybe a hundred or so only each year) students in US who are like him.) He seems to have an F1 visa. After he is graduated, he needs to switch to OPT (practical training) for a year and then switch to either J1 or H1B in the 2nd to 3rd or 4th years in his residency training. He could also switch to TN visa as he seems to be from Canada. But holding the TN visa would prevent him from receiving full clinical training because of the patients interaction aspect of the issue. He could only take a research job at a teaching hospital or be an “observer” in the clinical training environment if he has a TN visa at that time. Should he try to get a sponsor to switch to H1B instead of J1 if he plans to stay in US in the future? How hard is it for him to find a sponsor?</p>
Can you name that state? I know that several states (e.g. CA) offer in-state tuition rates to most graduates of in-state high schools, including undocumented immigrants, but not students who hold certain non-immigrant visas. I have not heard of the policy you described where the in-state tuition rate applies to all graduates including students on non-immigrant visas.</p>
<p>
Not necessary. While the J-1 visa for residency training does carry a 2-year homestay restriction, that restriction can be waived for physicians who make a commitment to work in a “medically underserved” setting (e.g. rural areas, free clinics or prison hospitals) for 3-5 years. Primary care physicians can also self-petition for a green card if they commit to working in an underserved setting for 5 years.</p>
<p>That aside, I thought that medical students don’t have much control over their residency placement anyway since most residency spots are centrally assigned via the match program? So the student in question may not have much leeway to find a residency placement that would sponsor him for an H-1B, even if he wanted to.</p>
<p>Thank you both, mcat2 and b@r!um, for a very informative discussion. I have written to UW Madison asking clarification to the statement “…a requirement to affirm a permanent and unrelinquishable domicile in another country…” and the source.</p>
<p>Compared to other Med schools, UW Madison OOS tuition is not too high. For U/G, UW Madison is one of the options for our S. The plan is to choose U/G wherever he is accepted and at the same time gets the best offer of merit and/or need based aid. Once he is done U/G, he will try again at UW Madison for med school. Hopefully by that time the visa type will change to green card. If not then he will have to continue on F-1, and during 2nd/3rd year of residency he will have to try and self-petition for a green card. </p>
<p>I know from my own experience that self-petitioning for green card will be much easier than asking a potential employer to sponsor for H1B. If that means choosing Primary care for our S in the med school and committing to that 5-year stint, than that’s ok too.</p>
<p>A quick summary of what I found: TN/TD foreigners are considered temporary visitors without immigration intent, but the language does not refer to the need for a foreign domicile. It could still be a requirement stated in a non-obvious place, but it’s not mentioned in the usual places where it’s listed for other visa types.</p>
<p>The legal text is a bit convoluted to read. There’s 3 important sources here. The text of the NAFTA, the text of the Federal Code of Regulations as it pertains to immigration, and the text of the Immigration and Nationality Act. </p>
<p>From the Federal Code of Regulations about TN and TD visas:
<a href=“a”>quote</a> Under section 214(e) of the Act, a citizen of Canada or Mexico who seeks temporary entry as a business person to engine in business activities at a professional level may be admitted to the United States in accordance with the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA.) </p>
<p>(b) Definitions: … Temporary entry, as defined in the NAFTA, means entry without the intent to establish permanent residence. The alien must satisfy the inspecting immigration officer that the proposed stay is temporary.
<p>Here’s the subparagraph of 101(a)(15) relevant to TN or TD visas:
<a href=“15”>quote</a> The term “immigrant” means every alien except an alien who is within one of the following classes of nonimmigrant aliens
…
(E) an alien entitled to enter the United States under and in pursuance of the provisions of a treaty of commerce and navigation between the United States and the foreign state of which he is a national, and the spouse and children of any such alien if accompanying or following to join him: </p>
<p>(i) solely to carry on substantial trade, including trade in services or trade in technology, principally between the United States and the foreign state of which he is a national; </p>
<p>(ii) solely to develop and direct the operations of an enterprise in which he has invested, or of an enterprise in which he is actively in the process of investing, a substantial amount of capital; or
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Note that this paragraph does not refer to a foreign domicile at all. For contrast, here are the subparagraphs of 101(a)(15) for other visa types.</p>
<p>For F-1 students:
<a href=“F”>quote</a> (i) an alien having a residence in a foreign country which he has no intention of abandoning, who is a bona fide student qualified to pursue a full course of study and who seeks to enter the United States temporarily and solely for the purpose of pursuing such a course of study consistent with section 214(l) at an established college, university, seminary, conservatory, academic high school, elementary school, or other academic institution or in a language training program in the United States
[/quote]
</p>
<p>For seasonal agricultural workers:
<a href=“H”>quote</a> (ii) (a) having a residence in a foreign country which he has no intention of abandoning who is coming temporarily to the United States to perform agricultural labor or services, as defined by the Secretary of Labor in regulations and including agricultural labor defined in section 3121(g) of 3bbb/ the Internal Revenue Code of 1986, agriculture as defined in section 3(f) of the Fair Labor Standards Act of 1938 (29 U.S.C. 203(f)), and the pressing of apples for cider on a farm, of a temporary or seasonal nature
<p>There’s still a fundamental difference between TN/TD visas and H-1B/H-4 or L-1/L-2 work visas: the H and L visas do allow for immigration intent, whereas the TN/TD visas explicitly require the absence of immigration intent. </p>
<p>Several states justify charging TD students out-of-state tuition with the immigration intent clause. However, since UW Madison uses the requirement for a foreign domicile as justification, you could try to reason with them. I’ll keep my fingers crossed for you!</p>
<p>It is Texas. At least it was the case when I lived there several years ago. I think I read about this from a local newspaper at that time.</p>
<p>TN indeed does not have the home country stay requirement like J-1. Also, J-1 (as well as F-1) is not a dual intent (i.e., intend to immigrate or do not intend to immigrate) visa but H1B is a dual intent visa. This is the reason why many who eventually apply for the green card often switch their status to the H1B first.</p>
<p>Thanks for providing all the relevant info. For a record, almost a generation ago, I myself went through the process of F1, practical training, H1B and then PR. But it was so long ago that I forgot almost all the details. Also, the legal process could have been changed since then. I revisted this issue purely because a couple of friends of our child (who does not need to go through this process as he was born here) seem to have the need to go through this process just like I did a long time ago. (To be sure, they do not ask for our “help”. It is just my curiosity about this only. Actually, if they do ask for my help, I would suggest them to get an immigration attorney to help them with the actual process. This was what I did back then. But some basic background knowledge will likely make the process a little bit smooth.)</p>
<p>That’s interesting about Texas. Thanks for sharing!</p>
<p>
I’m not sure what that’s in reference to. My previous two posts were on the issue of whether TN/TD visa holders are legally required to maintain a foreign domicile while in the US, which UW Madison’s website stated as the reason for classifying them as out-of-state students. I was elaborating on why I think UW Madison’s policy is erroneous as stated, and then added a few thoughts about why the current policy is defensible anyway.</p>
<p>@b@r1um, I agree that “TN/TD visas explicitly require the absence of immigration intent.” But is it justified to consider only immigration intent when deciding residence of international students?</p>
<p>For instance, here’s what USCIS documents show regarding TN visas:</p>
<p>Sec. 214.6 (h) (1) (iv): There is no specific limit on the total period of time an alien may be in TN status provided the alien continues to be engaged in TN business activities for a U.S. employer or entity at a professional level, and otherwise continues to properly maintain TN nonimmigrant status."</p>
<p>In other words, TN/TD visas allow the student to stay in the US indefinitely.</p>
<p>Period of Stay
As an H-1B nonimmigrant, you may be admitted for a period of up to three years. Your time period may be extended, but generally cannot go beyond a total of six years, though some exceptions do apply under sections 104(c) and 106(a) of the American Competitiveness in the Twenty-First Century Act (AC21)"</p>
<p>H-1b visa holders are allowed to stay a maximum of 6 years. Some of them change their status to Green card, but it’s not an automatic process. So even if H-1b’s maintain their jobs, after 6 years they have to leave the country.</p>
<p>The FAQ section of UWMadison residence 4 tuition puts the categories F, J, B, TN, TD, M together in one group, which needs review, in my opinion.</p>