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<p>Hoover was also an engineer, and held a patent or two. Heck, he was even known for being one of the most sociable presidents in recent history since until the stock market crash he didn’t use a press secretary (how’s that for fighting the engineer stereotype).</p>
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<p>I don’t think this is accurate in the EE scenario, and the LAC student potentially had a lot more opportunity to hone their writing and communication skills, so going to a master’s program with a thesis will give them a competitive advantage. I think maybe an extra year, tops, but maybe not even that. I think he should carefully select the program.</p>
<p>“Kind of scary to think about 3 years after ther BS to get something that might be doable in 5 total at a school with engineering.”</p>
<p>I don’t know how you figure 3 years when most LACs seem to have a 3:2 and/or a 4:1 program through an agreement with another university.</p>
<p>Ok, I imagine I’ll be mocked for being touchy feely, after all engineers are tough, but not all smart eighteen year olds want to go to technical school. Some of them, like my son are pretty burned out by all the hard work it took to get to into a tier 1 school and want a more “regular” college experience. Heck, he didn’t even know if he really wanted to be an engineer. You can easily drop out of an engineering program, but it’s no so easy to drop in. </p>
<p>We pretty much understood that by going to an LAC he would probably have to go to graduate school in something, however, he’ll get there with great communication skills, fluency in a second language, and critical thinking abilities. And, he’ll have an understanding of other cultures and their histories. I totally believe the Stanford statement that civil and environmental engineers will have challenges all over the world, and should be able to live and work in other countries. The civil engineering of our kid’s world will mean a broad understanding of environmental systems, and the knowledge of more than a little science.</p>
<p>As far as the cost, it’s true that more years means more money. That’s an irrefutable fact. There are chances in graduate school, just like undergrad, to receive grants, scholarships and financial aid of all kinds.</p>
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<p>Do physics/math curriculum at LACs really have fewer technical requirements than similar majors at a more traditional engineering school?</p>
<p>Also, what’s to stop someone interested in a broad education in addition to engineering from going to a tech school and taking the classes there? Many of my friends double majored in fields outside of engineering. A quick sample of just my classmates in my small major of 15 included double majors in psychology, technical writing, and music performance while others had minors in photography, public policy, and economics. And that’s not including any of the people doubling/minoring in technical fields.</p>
<p>Heck, in order to satisfy ABET criteria, all of my engineering classes required written lab reports, oral presentations, and/or poster presentations. Certainly more writing/speaking skills than any of my math or physics classes ever demanded.</p>
<p>Not sure where I came up with 3 years. So my DDs friends graduate with masters after 5 years. This kid will need a fifth year to get his pre reqs and then 2 years for the masters.</p>
<p>I do believe there’s a lot to be said for the LAC education and the skills it develops. </p>
<p>In the new economy, though, how many people can afford to send kids to a 4 year LAC experience?</p>
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How about at a LAC that offers ABET accredited engineering, such as Lafayette College?</p>
<p>From their website:[Division</a> of Engineering: Home](<a href=“http://engineering.lafayette.edu/]Division”>http://engineering.lafayette.edu/)
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<p>LC82, (Lafayette College alum?) Lafayette seems to have to all figured out. Thanks for the information!</p>
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<p>Good point. ABET requirements make for a heavy course load, but have forced engineering programs to give students experience in technical writing, project planning, and oral presentations. I don’t know whether math or physics majors at universities face the same requirements. </p>
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<p>Another LAC with a strong engineering program (and there aren’t very many) is also in Pennsylvania: [url=<a href=“http://bucknell.edu/x16460.xml]Bucknell[/url”>http://bucknell.edu/x16460.xml]Bucknell[/url</a>]</p>
<p>Note that Lafayette’s BA in engineering, while wonderful for some paths, is not ABET-accredited and is not an acceptable degree for most traditional engineering job openings. The math/science/engineering course load for the accredited BS path does limit how many humanities and social science courses the typical engineering student can take, however, so by that definition the program may not be as “well-rounded.” In my experience, engineering students at just about any college or university will be living, socializing, and taking classes with “friends majoring in other subjects.”</p>
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Not sure what you mean by this.</p>
<p>Let me throw in my 2 cents, as someone with UG degrees in both Physics and EE, but grad degrees in neither. First of all, I think it is fairly common for people to major in Physics UG and Engineering in grad school, or vice versa. Because many grad schools allow a good degree of specialization with few explicit requirements, it likely takes less time to do that than to do what I did – there were a lot of required courses for EE that I didn’t take in Physics, but they were certainly not all necessary for a more specialized MSEE. </p>
<p>As far as the math beyond Calculus I – there was a lot of overlap. The difference was probably in emphasis more than content, with a few exceptions. My class for Physics, which I think was called “Methods of Mathematical Physics” or “Special Functions in Mathematical Physics” touched a little bit on a lot of topics – Bessel Functions, Calculus of Variations, Legendre Functions, a lot of generalized boundary value problems beyond wave equations. It covered numerical methods, but not to the same level of detail as we did in EE. And I think for Physics we had to take a separate class on complex variables. Math for EE was more specialized (at least where I took it). They emphasized Fourier series/transform and Laplace transform type stuff. I also think in EE we had to take a separate class in Probs/Stats, whereas in Physics it was just sort of lumped in with everything else. But it is probably different elsewhere, although I’m sure there is significant overlap wherever you take it. </p>
<p>For me, the math seemed harder when I was getting my Physics degree. But I was also younger and less serious at the time. YMMV.</p>
<p>And I don’t use any of this stuff in my work anyway 
Thank God.</p>
<p>2college: I just pulled this from the William’s site:</p>
<p>“The most common route is to complete a B.A. at Williams in the normal four years, majoring in one of the sciences (usually physics, chemistry, computer science, or mathematics). Afterwards the student goes to a graduate school for a master’s degree or doctorate in engineering”</p>
<p>It looks to me that a master’s can probably happen with 1 additional year. But, I admit, I know no one personally that has done such a program and I’m not sure what the reality is.</p>
<p>I think you hit it on the head Bovertine. I’m a layman but Lake Jr. is pretty sharp and has thus far done well in high school math and science. We’ve looked at the Engineering requirements for several universities, while also perusing the Physics Department curriculum at a few liberal arts colleges. While planing for his eventual matriculation, one thing we took note of is that for summer undergraduate internships some of the top American engineering firms solicit Physics majors as well as student engineers for those summer jobs. Presumably, these companies do the same thing as regards permanent employment. Therefore, one option is to get the BA/BS Physics, get a engineering/tech job at graduation, and then get a M.S. Engineering degree (non-thesis) with a year of study after a few years of employment. This option doesn’t seem to leave Physics majors at a competitive disadvantage with holders of bacalaureate engineering degrees.</p>
<p>GTalum: </p>
<p>I remember I read in that same page that careful planning was necessary during those four years in order to take all the required courses.</p>
<p>i was about to abandon this thread but someone asked so i’ll give it one more try.
Quote:
Originally Posted by toodleooo
and i still can’t for the life of me imagine how a year of basic courses equates to a four year engineering undergrad degree. lightweight.
Not sure what you mean by this. </p>
<p>if you mean how does one year of remedial work equate to 4 of specialized engineering, i mean given two individuals with these backgrounds, i’d hire the bs chemical engineer without doubt. i use this example because that’s what i’ve been doing for a long time.
if you mean the term lightweight, that’s because there’s a lot of material covered in those 4 years that one year of catchup can’t deliver. physics probably does matchup reasonably well with electrical/computer/optical/civil engineering. </p>
<p>finally a major advantage of the engineering school approach is that these 4-year degrees are very employable. after a few years working, many technical people find better opportunities studying business or management, rather than engineering in grad school.</p>
<p>^^^they mention that for the 3:2 program as opposed to a 4:1 program (most common). I suspect a physics or math major would have the necessary pre-requisites.</p>
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Personally, I think civil engineering would require longer than 1 year simply because material would be needed that has to be taken sequentially. I agree that chemistry is a total stretch, since the material has less overlap, however I don’t think anyone has suggested otherwise.</p>
<p>Just for reference, DH had a BS in Petroleum. Eng. and returned for a BS and MS in Civil Eng w/ Environmental concentration. It took 4 additional years.</p>
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How’s this for “well rounded”?
[Grand</a> Challenges Scholars Program](<a href=“http://sites.lafayette.edu/grandchallenges/]Grand”>http://sites.lafayette.edu/grandchallenges/)</p>
<p>^^^ Thank you, GTaum.</p>
<p>To figure out how prepared you are for a graduate degree in engineering after an undergraduate degree in Phsyics; just look at the graduate field you are interested in and look at your prespective college UG requirements. That will tell you how well prepared you will be. Some fields of engineering might work easily. Others will require a fair amount of time taking the prerequisites. </p>
<p>Being an aerospace structural engineer, my BS degree included 3 classes in structural analysis (obviously), structural materials (ie metals, composites, etc), dynamics, fracture mechanics, propulsion, etc. A lot of classes a physics major probably won’t have. Nothing to say you can’t take some of those classes as electives unless there is a school policy preventing you or, in some cases, making it difficult (by putting out of field students at the back of the waiting list for that class).</p>
<p>Good luck to you. Get a plan together and work it.</p>