Investigation?

Colleges and Universities A-Z Merchant Marine Academy - Kings Point
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<p>If you want to make our commitment to be go active duty...then you really could cut the school out and just open up a few more slots at USNA every year. Think about it, this place was made to have a Federal school for Merchant Officers during a time when we needed them most (WWII). I'd be willing to guess that these days the demand for merchant marine officers is not quite as high because people are not getting torpedoed on a daily basis...Yet, you still need a strong US Flagged fleet IN CASE of war. I mean, what if we went to war with China for example, they're not going to carry our bombs over there, get what I'm saying? You could almost think of a KPer with a Merchant Marine Reserve Commission as like a first responder during a war. You call, we get on ship, we go. </p>

<p>The argument could probably be made that KP could be disappeared, however the state schools do not require a MMR commission, which is probably our saving grace right now...</p>

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<p>An MMR comission, does that mean the requirement of a tour at sea for X amount of years? </p>

<p>That may be the saving grace. </p>

<p>One thing I did learn once a long time ago, if you don't have a strong arguement to justify your existence (no matter how much you personally believe in it) you will eventually be cut when budgets are trimmed. </p>

<p>Best regards Davy</p>

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<p>The way I understand it, we have 8 years in the MMR program. If you are not called up all you have to during that time is two weeks of annual training per year. That can be a variety of things...one being working at Kings Point for 2 weeks on the Kings Pointer (happened to a guy this past Feb.) </p>

<p>If you get "called up" MARAD contacts you and will probably be like, "hey go to the hall, get on a ship" and you will be paid as if you were working on a ship (aka as you would be paid normally). If you do not go and get a job, they'll get you on a ship and then pay you at whatever rank you are in the MMR (we graduate as Ensigns). So you get called up...do you go out right away as asked and make 10k a month or do you wait til they force you out there the second time and pay you 1500 bucks a month (or whatever ensign pay is...but significantly less)....the alumni on here can probably answer this better...but i hope i gave some idea</p>

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<p>If KP needs to make a case "for their existence", how do you explain the existence of the Citadel, VMI, etc. They are high priced military schools, where alot of the graduates go into the military either in an active or reserve capacity, without a committment.</p>

<p>Quite frankly, I can't believe this discussion is taking place. With less than one percent of cargo on ships being screened, so many ships having foreign origin, and the state of the world in general, the need for highly trained mariners is paramount now. I believe at least at much as was necessary during WWII, when the school opened. I believe the federal government would be remiss if it didn't have it's hand in at least ONE of those schools.</p>

<p>If your case is to have only one service academy per type of service, then why not combine Coast Guard, KP and Navy and start a Marine service academy?</p>

<p>I agree, pride for one's school is important. If no pride, why bother? But humility is part of our humanity and I agree with Davy--I'm sure all the schools are good and produce excellent sailors. I think it's just as parents we want to think our kids are "the best", so they must be going to "the best" school.</p>

<p>Seems to me, with the number of applicants turned away from service academies--the government should be thinking of opening more--not closing more.</p>

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<p>Students going to the Citadel (a state school in South Carolina) pay approx $21,000 annually in tuition. ROTC scholarships are available (as they are at most state schools). Students going to KP do not have annual tution (such as SUNY etc).
It seems to me that KP would do well to market the unique options that students have- they feed all the services, and none specialize in the transportation areas like KP. (add to that the ready reserve aspects of the MM need, moving troop/tanks etc to battle.)</p>

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<p>KP10 Mom: "Many of the other schools have ROTC programs which obligate the students to active duty service after graduation"</p>

<p>If I am not mistaken ROTC is Reserve Officer Training...and recipients of a ROTC scholarship are obligated only to Reserve Duty, the same as KP grads.</p>

<p>In my opinion, perhaps KP should be moved under the DoD and a requirement be initiated that would obligate the grads to serve a minimum of 3 years active duty and the remainder in the reserve or sail in the merchant fleet. Like I said, just MHO.</p>

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<p>I will just leave it at that I had the good sense to delete my response to the post refering that some parents have the need to think their kids are the best. I will be moving on.</p>

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<p>ROTC grads serve on active duty when they graduate.</p>

<p>The commission they receive is called a "reserve" commission, but it can be changed to active in a year or two I think. In fact even kids at USNA graduate and get a RESERVE commission (unless it has been switched back). Just cause the commission is reserve doesn't mean your not on active duty. </p>

<p>All that said, why on Earth would you make KP an active duty committment school? You would ALMOST totally negate the whole academic system not to mention the Coast Guard License we receive which is only good for 5 years. Sorry, if we didn't have the option to sail I'd leave.</p>

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<p>Davy, </p>

<p>Good questions and maybe you could enlighten me to change my opinion. </p>

<p>If you were active duty in either the Coast Gaurd or the Navy why would your licensure expire? I am very happy to hear you have the passion for what the school was intended for and that is to serve/be employed on a ship. </p>

<p>It is my opinion that given the huge expense of this education that the graduates should give the same obligation and comittment that the other federally funded academies give. I think they could give this in either the CG or the Navy and maintain their license; if this isn't true then there certainly is reason to put them on commercial vessels rather than to serve active duty. </p>

<p>I think a big part of the phrase that the USMMA is the "best kept secret" is because you can get an incredible education for free with minimal debt to society and the HUGE benefit of a fat entry level paycheck upon graduation. I remember reading on the website of another maritime academy that entry level positions of 6 mos at sea yield $123,000 a year; I don't know too many careers that can offer that to a young person of 22-24 years old. Perhaps this information is way off base but that is what I read from another maritime academy's website. </p>

<p>It just to me seems like this is something a very pragmatic, utilitarian budget cutter would look at when push comes to shove on doling out funds. </p>

<p>Either way, my interests are primarily in the school continuing it's legacy.</p>

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<p>Our license has to be renewed after 5 years. It wouldn't be so much that it would not work anymore after 3 years, but it's not being used. You slaved over getting that piece of paper for about 6 months of hard studying and now it's like you could use it as TP. Sure you could sail the last two years with it...but I don't know seems very wasteful to me. </p>

<p>Next, if a kid is making 123k out of the gate...tell me who he is working for!!! I think 50-80k is more realistic depending on how much you sail/work overtime, the company or contract if with a union. </p>

<p>Let me try and put this in another perspective and ask some questions. We had a military information night a few weeks ago at school. The Navy table was handing out fliers that said a Navy Ensign will make roughly 66,000 dollars right out of school. Now keep in mind, that figure includes their Cost of living assistance, food, and their pay check. A KP grad goes out...sails for 6 months and gets 66000 bucks also...but he's got to pay rent/mortgage, for food, etc. when he isn't on a ship. At this point I don't think there is any huge monetary advantage except that you decide what to do with the 66,000 and they tell you what to do with most of it. </p>

<p>Next, I get the opinion that you believe the only way one can pay back the education and SERVE the United States of America is by going active duty. Does that mean that the Maritime Administrator is not serving the country? I know that seems a little black and white and the topic itself is in the gray area...but the point is that there is more then one way to serve your country, and like I said before when we need US ships to deliver our goods to the next war we get ourselves into you'll be glad that the US govt is paying for our education and FORCING us to go to sea. </p>

<p>Now all that being said...there are the "3 pillars" by which some will say the school stands on, academics, regiment, and athletics. Take one of those out and we go bye bye. Think about it, what would be the point without classes, who would pay for it if we weren't a regimented system (I probably wouldn't as a tax payer), and what alumni would ever donate money if it weren't for athletics!! I know the last one seems a little stretched, but let's be honest we need that money. </p>

<p>I agree, that with the 6 state schools, a budget cutter could easily shut KP down, I just think at this point there are a lot of powerful alums and people who care too much about the school to let that happen. </p>

<p>That being said, I'd really like an alum or DD1 to chime in cause they can answer some of this stuff 10 times better then I can.</p>

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<p>I used to work for a well known Federal Government :) - every 4 years or so the talk would start about how there were going to be massive cutbacks and that facilities would be closed and we would have to "do more with less". With the new Administration would come a new boss (attorney general) and everyone would yap for several months until it became evident that nothing was going to be shut down.</p>

<p>I would be very surprised to see any changes to KP...financial or otherwise. KP has a huge legacy and I don't believe anyone would allow it to just go away. I was on the radio last evening with a host that's a retired USMC Gunny. He was enthused about KP and all that it stood for...mentioned the battle standard, the tradition, and the fact that KP turns out (his words) the "finest men and women on the ocean".</p>

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<p>Just a few additions:</p>

<p>All officers on active duty now hold USN commissions. They recently changed this and augmented everybody on active duty to USN if they had USNR commissions. What's the difference one may ask? Good question, I'm not too sure about all the nuances; however, some of them had to do with what happened to you after you retired and also how easy it was for the navy to either get rid of you or you to get rid of the navy. It used to be that all academy grads on active duty had a USNR commision even though they were on active duty and after four or so years they could change to a USN commission. </p>

<p>KP shutting down won't happen as long as the alumni stay together. We have a very active PAC and alumni in very high places in society and with connections to government who will fight tooth and nail for the place if there is ever another movement considering it's "worthwhileness."</p>

<p>The "payback" the government gets from us as KP grads I believe is much better than the one they get from USxA graduates. I don't have exact numbers, but most academy graduates do their five years and push the eject button. I would like you to look at the number of KP graduates who still work in the maritime industry 20 years or more after graduation. Without this base of educated workers the US maritime industry would not be where it is today. The government also has the benefit of knowing they have a group of reserve mariners in the future who will take the call of duty and run with it in case of need such as during WWII. Just look at the percentage of casualties during WWII in the merchant marines as compared to the other services. Although this is historical it would be important yet again if the world continues down the path it seems to be heading over the past sixty years since WWII.</p>

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<p>Davy, </p>

<p>You said, "Our license has to be renewed after 5 years. It wouldn't be so much that it would not work anymore after 3 years, but it's not being used. " </p>

<p>I am confused here, why wouldn't you use your license on a big ship in either the Navy or Coast Gaurd? Am I missing something here? I hate to sound green and perhaps am sounding laughable at this point but what would be the difference in serving on a Naval or CG vessel rather than a merchant vessel? </p>

<p>Actually, I don't think that the only way a person can pay our country back or serve our country is by active duty. I think each and everyone of us can serve every morning we get up and go to our respective work places. Just not serving in the military. But despite that a person such as myself did not get a 100% scholarship from the USA. I often have wondered why there isn't a school of allied health and medicine primarily to serve our military population with the same set up as the USMMA! </p>

<p>It isn't necessarily what I think personally, but what I think in terms of the nature of budget cuts. The reality is all of those other schools (maritime) not being 100% scholarshipped do the same thing, they put capable people into the maritime industry. These same capable people will be ready and many of them will help in the time of need and if called. And many of them already comitting to active duty through ROTC scholarship. </p>

<p>Well I have exhausted my point of view. I hope that the majority are correct and that this is all idol talk and will never happen. </p>

<p>If I come across that 123K figure I will quote the link to it. </p>

<p>Best regards,</p>

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<p>Active Duty personnel don't need a license to work on a ship.
they wil put u where they need you sorta thing. you may be a 3 a/e working on the bridge and conning the ship.</p>

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<p>During WWII, the state schools could not crank out maritime professionals fast enough, and USMMA was created. It took a while before Kings Point was accredited to give graduates BS degrees. The Maritime business tanked as airplanes and unions almost killed US shipping (another story). </p>

<p>Periodically, a federal review panel (Such as the one in 1993) will decide that Kings Point is really just training officers for private industry and the state schools do that more efficiently. “The U.S. Merchant Marine Academy was reviewed in the early 90’s by the Vice President’s National Performance Review, the Department of Transportation’s Inspector General Office, and by members of Congress.” Global</a> Maritime and Transportation School (GMATS). This is where the KP alums came in as well as Project Acta that seems to have done a great job getting more funds for the school.</p>

<p>“The State Academies graduated 430 licensed officers in 2004. By comparison, the U.S. Merchant Marine Academy (USMMA) graduated approximately 190 licensed officers in 2004, although as a military service academy the USMMA produces a larger number of graduates with a military service obligation. The cost per officer graduate in the State Academies is $120,196, 36 percent less expensive than the cost per officer graduate in the US Merchant Marine Academy. State Academies receive 97.2% of their funding from non-federal sources, while the USMMA is fully federally funded. Also, in addition to educating the bulk of the licensed officers for the U.S. merchant marine last year, the State Academies produced more than 400 additional graduates in maritime-related programs that support the Maritime Administration's Strategic Objectives of commercial mobility and environmental stewardship and DOT's security objectives.” (from [url=<a href="http://www.expectmore.gov%5DExpectMore.gov%5B/url"&gt;http://www.expectmore.gov]ExpectMore.gov[/url&lt;/a&gt;] – search Maritime).</p>

<p>There remains a contingent of policy wonks/federal cost cutters that believe that the state schools could more efficiently do what KP does. With the 2008 elections, change are coming. How it will impact the Academy is for those who can read tea leaves. Personally, I think that US security needs should require more Federal oversight of shipping and I have my concerns over the foreign-flagged ships and crews as we are more and more vulnerable to oil spills, terrorist threats, etc. Thus there should be plenty of jobs for all graduates (and by the way, those large starting salaries are based on annual amounts, while most catch a ship for 3-9 months only). The Korean tanker running into the Golden Gate Bridge is an illustration of what we will be more concerned with - and don't forget LNG tankers!</p>