<p>Hey guys I'm a recruited football player at Pomona and Carnegie Mellon (still waiting on UofChicago/Williams/Amherst). I want a career in investment banking when I graduate.</p>
<p>I know I'll get into the schools I'll apply to (since each of these schools have offered a slot), so which one should I go with? </p>
<p>Please, believe me that I have done the research in terms of culture, etc. I'm asking solely on recruitment for IB.</p>
<p>Does Pomona have presence on the West Coast? Is it comparable to Haas and Stanford for ib jobs coming out? Is it better to go with Carnegie Mellon Tepper?</p>
<p>pomona hasn’t got such a name yet. I doubt you can compare it to Haas or Stanford.
If you want to go the investment route than your other choices seem to be more promising. I would do U of Chicago or Carnegie because of the reputational difference. Also U of Chicago is the most internationally recognized. People outside of America won’t neccesarily know Carnegie, but U of Chicago is a name and seems an excellent place for going into investment banking.</p>
<p>Though I am a big backer of Pomona, with a senior son there, I would think Claremont-McKenna would be a better choice for somebody who is interested in investment banking. That is the kind of career field they specialize in. Take a look at this link which shows CMC graduates over the past few years who are working in your field of interest. I think you will recognize the companies.<a href=“http://www.claremontmckenna.edu/fei/alumni/job_placement.php[/url]”>http://www.claremontmckenna.edu/fei/alumni/job_placement.php</a> A major donor to CMC is Henry Kravis of Kohlberg Kravis Roberts & Co. which has, among many other interests, gotten in to investment banking. You are quite fortunate to have such a great list of schools to consider. My son who was also admitted to Chicago and Berkeley has never looked back but only you can decide if the Claremont Colleges are right for you. If you haven’t seen this article you might like to take a look and see what the life of a Pomona athlete is like.
[Helene</a> Elliott: Little man putting up big yards for Pomona-Pitzer - Los Angeles Times](<a href=“http://articles.latimes.com/2011/oct/19/sports/la-sp-elliott-20111020]Helene”>It's not a football factory, but Luke Sweeney is working hard)</p>
<p>Hi - If you go to any top tier school and do well in your studies you will be successful. Pomona is an outstanding school. I just typed in Pomona College investment Banking and came up with a lot of examples - the one below this note is the first one I saw. I am sure there are a plethora of others. Pomona is the most selective Liberal Arts School in the country (US News and World Report last year) - there are not as many graduates as some of the other schools out there, but believe me their graduates are highly connected and highly successful.</p>
<p>Come to Pomona and help my son (current Freshman) turn the program around. You will get to play with the leading rusher in the country - Luke Sweeney - and be a part of a young team which loses only a few players to graduation this year. My son absolutely loves the school, the teachers, the campus and the kids at this place. You can come here and make a mark both academically and athletically. </p>
<p>I wish you the best in your college search whatever you choose, but know that Pomona is a phenomenal choice. The Pomona family will be waiting to welcome you!</p>
<p>Tim Forest '95 (Monsanto)
Director, Schwab Institutional
Charles Schwab & Company
San Francisco, California</p>
<p>Following graduation from Pomona in economics, Tim worked at McKinsey & Company as a Business Analyst in their Los Angeles office. He then earned his MBA at the Stanford Graduate School of Business and returned to McKinsey in San Francisco for two more years as an Associate. While at McKinsey, Tim worked on strategy projects in the sectors of financial services, technology, healthcare, and not-for-profit. Since 2001, Tim has been in strategic roles with Charles Schwab & Company, managing projects forwarding the retail brokerage business, and, currently, the Schwab Institutional business. As a personal interest, Tim recently co-founded Bruce Cass Wine Lab, a wine school offering evening classes in the San Francisco Bay Area ([Home</a> | Bruce Cass Wine Lab](<a href=“http://www.brucecasswinelab.com%5DHome”>http://www.brucecasswinelab.com)).</p>
<p>Alan L. Boyce '84 (US Bancorp)
CEO, Absalon and President of Adecoagro
Los Angeles</p>
<p>Alan Boyce is CEO of Absalon, a joint venture between VP Securities and Soros Fund Management. Its purpose is to educate and empower countries to adopt the beneficial attributes of the Danish mortgage system, and he is currently working with George Soros on an initiative to restructure the U.S. mortgage market. He is also President of Adecoagro, a diversified agricultural production company operating in Argentina, Brazil and Uruguay. Before Countrywide Bank, FSB was sold to Bank of America, Boyce was Senior Managing Director of Investment Strategies. While at Countrywide, Boyce was responsible for management and leadership of the bank’s investment and funding strategies that produce the highest risk-adjusted returns and the lowest cost of funds. He also oversaw securities and loan purchase activities, trades and strategies, as well as investment portfolio performance. Prior to joining Countrywide in 2007, Boyce served as Director of Special Situations at Soros Fund Management LLC. During those years with Soros, he managed a portfolio of assets of the Quantum Funds and had principal operational responsibilities for the bulk of Soros’ investments in Latin America. Boyce coordinated the establishment of Glacier Re, a Swiss Domicile reinsurance company in 2004 and served as chief executive officer. Before joining Soros Fund Management, Boyce served for fourteen years as Managing Director, in charge of Fixed Income Arbitrage with Bankers Trust. Prior to that, he worked for the Federal Reserve Board in Washington, D.C. Boyce holds an MBA degree from Stanford University and a B.A. in Economics from Pomona College.</p>
<p>David Cho '00 (Las Vegas Sands)
Team Leader
Bain and Company
New York City</p>
<p>David Cho is a manager in Bain & Company’s New York office. He joined the firm in 2000, and has also worked in Bain’s Los Angeles, Singapore and Hong Kong offices. David is a member of the firm’s Media and Entertainment practice where he has worked with clients on a variety of areas, including digital migration strategy, vertical content strategies, sales force effectiveness, organizational redesign, and product design and innovation. He has also worked in Bain’s technology and telecommunications practices, in areas such as business unit and corporate strategy, operational improvements, mergers and acquisitions (including post-merger integration), and organizational redesign. In addition to his client work, David is also the Associate Consultant program manager in the New York office. In this role, he oversees various elements of the AC program, including staffing, training and professional development. David holds an MBA from Harvard Business School and a BA from Pomona College in Economics.</p>
<p>Tim Forest '95 (Monsanto)
Director, Schwab Institutional
Charles Schwab & Company
San Francisco, California</p>
<p>Following graduation from Pomona in economics, Tim worked at McKinsey & Company as a Business Analyst in their Los Angeles office. He then earned his MBA at the Stanford Graduate School of Business and returned to McKinsey in San Francisco for two more years as an Associate. While at McKinsey, Tim worked on strategy projects in the sectors of financial services, technology, healthcare, and not-for-profit. Since 2001, Tim has been in strategic roles with Charles Schwab & Company, managing projects forwarding the retail brokerage business, and, currently, the Schwab Institutional business. As a personal interest, Tim recently co-founded Bruce Cass Wine Lab, a wine school offering evening classes in the San Francisco Bay Area ([Home</a> | Bruce Cass Wine Lab](<a href=“http://www.brucecasswinelab.com%5DHome”>http://www.brucecasswinelab.com)).</p>
<p>Kent Fisher is a Vice President at Boeing where he has responsibility for the firm’s understanding of the future of commercial aviation - where demand for commercial aircraft and services will come from, what business models, trends and political factors will be most important, and ultimately where and how passengers and freight of the future will want to move. His team’s analyses serve as the basis for forming of Boeing strategy, product decisions, marketing communication, and sales tactics. Prior to becoming a Vice President in June 2002, Kent directed the programs of Boeing’s Air Traffic Management unit, with broad responsibility for leading the company’s efforts in developing effective, affordable solutions to increase global air traffic capacity. Kent previously served as Director of Commercial Airplane Group Sales where he managed several high-visibility accounts, including American Airlines, Atlas Air, WestJet and Midway Airlines. From 1996 to 1998, he was responsible for assisting Commercial Airplanes customers with their financing needs as a director in Customer Financing. Before he joined Boeing, Kent held various positions at Price Waterhouse working in the firms litigation and bankruptcy-consulting group in Los Angeles and Seattle. Kent has a bachelor’s degree in economics from Pomona College and a master’s degree in business administration from UCLA.</p>
<p>Peter Harding '97 (A123 Systems)
Vice President
Technology Crossover Ventures
Menlo Park, California</p>
<p>Peter Harding is a Vice President at Technology Crossover Ventures, a leading provider of growth equity financing to technology companies, providing funds to late-stage private, and public companies throughout North America. Founded in 1995, with $7.7 billion under management, the firm is headquartered in Palo Alto, California. Peter leads the healthcare information technology practice for TCV. Prior to joining TCV, Peter attended Stanford Graduate School of Business for his MBA. Peter worked at the early stage venture capital firm DCM (Doll Capital Management) focused on enterprise applications and wireless software companies in the US and China. DCM is focused on the communications, networking, wireless, software and storage systems sectors. Prior to joining DCM, Peter worked as an Associate for Epoch Partners which was sold to Goldman Sachs in 2001. Before Epoch, Peter was with Merrill Lynch in London as an investment banking analyst in the healthcare and M&A groups. He began his career with the Merrill Lynch in Los Angeles working with technology and healthcare companies on both M&A and convertible financing transactions. He majored in economics and public policy at Pomona College and graduated in the class of 1997.</p>
<p>Philip B. Hathaway '00 (Constellation Brands)
Business Development Manager
Microsoft Corporation
Seattle, Washington</p>
<p>After graduating from Pomona in 2000 with a major in economics, Phil worked as an investment banker in Los Angeles for Barrington & Associates for four years focused exclusively on M & A. In 2004 he left banking for business school and received his M.B.A. in 2006 from the Kellogg School of Management. He began working at Microsoft in August 2006 as a Business Development Manager, splitting his time equally between M & A and strategy/business planning for the Microsoft Office division.</p>
<p>Kristin Fix Horne '93 (AETNA)
Principal
TPG Capital
San Francisco, CA</p>
<p>Kristin Fix Horne is a Principal in the fundraising group at TPG Capital, a global private equity firm with over $30 billion under management. After graduating from Pomona with a double major in economics and mathematics, Kristin was a consultant at Booz Allen & Hamilton, where she focused on business strategy and operations for marketing-intensive industries. She spent half a year in marketing at Intuit before attending Stanford Business School for her MBA. After Stanford, she spent ten years in San Francisco at Morgan Stanley where she became vice president and managing director of the investment banking division. She was responsible for covering private equity clients on the west coast. Kristin’s projects involved sourcing and financing new acquisitions as well as working with portfolio companies on equity and debt financings and mergers and acquisitions advice. Currently, at TPG Capital, she leads fundraising for the firm’s large-cap buyout fund as well as other funds the firm manages. TPG Capital is a private equity investment firm with offices in Fort Worth, San Francisco, London, Hong Kong, Mumbai, Tokyo, Melbourne and New York City.</p>
<p>Victor Liu 93 (KB Home)
Research Associate
Causeway Capital
Los Angeles</p>
<p>Victor Liu graduated from Pomona College in 1992 as an economics major. While at Pomona College, he interned at Asia Financial Group with Pomona alumnus Bernard Chan in Hong Kong. Following graduation, he served as a Rotary Ambassador in Taiwan, worked as a management consultant at McKinsey and Company and as an investment banker at Merrill Lynch where he did corporate finance, and mergers & acquisitions. He currently conducts international equity research at Causeway Capital Management with a focus on the technology and automotive industries. He is a CFA Charterholder.</p>
<p>A native of Bulgaria, Dragan has worked in investment banking since his graduation from Pomona College. While at Lazard, he has participated in a number of mergers & acquisitions and restructuring assignments for clients including Microsoft, SBC Communications and others. Dragan currently focuses on the enterprise software, IT services, telecommunications/ broadband sectors, and has also completed transactions in networking equipment (including the sale of VPN technology vendor Compatible Systems to Cisco).</p>
<p>Susan V. Helfrey Monson '92 (Chicos)
Director of Operations
SunRun, Inc.
San Francisco</p>
<p>Susan Monson is Director of Operations at SunRun, Inc. SunRun is the leading provider of residential solar power purchase agreements, which provide residential customers with a more affordable way to go solar. At SunRun, Susie is responsible for all customer operations, customer service, and solar system monitoring and maintenance. Prior to joining SunRun in 2008, Susie worked for six years first as Director of Finance and then Director of Operations at PayCycle, Inc., a provider of web-based payroll services for small businesses. Prior to joining PayCycle in 2002, Susie worked as VP Operations for NextMonet, a direct marketer of fine art, where she was in charge of all customer service and framing operations. Susie’s additional work experience includes IBM, Exxon Corporation, and the Federal Reserve Board of Governors. Susie graduated from Pomona College in 1992 with a concentration in economics and she holds an MBA from Stanford University.</p>
<p>Erik Nierenberg '97 (FedEx)
Director of Sales Strategy
San Francisco, California </p>
<p>Erik Nierenberg is currently Vice President of Sales Strategy and Head of North American Outbound Corporate Sales for Salesforce.com, (NYSE: CRM), the global leader in Cloud Computing software. Previously, Nierenberg was a Venture Partner with Enterprise Partners Venture Capital, a $1.1B firm located in San Diego, with a primary focus within software, consumer Internet, online advertising, and wireless technologies. Board of Director seats included Devicescape, Expresso Fitness, and Specific Media (online ad network). He had additional Board and management involvement at IdenTrust, Dragonwave (TSX/AIM:DWI), and Ascendent Systems (acquired by RIM).Prior to joining Enterprise Partners, Erik spent five years with Bain & Company where he led growth strategy, operations and marketing initiatives across industries including technology, media, consumer products, and retail. Nierenberg also was a Case Team Leader within Bain’s Private Equity Group doing M&A and due diligence in a variety of industries. Earlier in his career, Nierenberg worked in product management at Netscape and was one of the founding employees of The Bridgespan Group which is a bi-coastal company that provides consulting services to large foundations and community organizations. Erik received a M.B.A from the Stanford Graduate School of Business as well as a degree in Economics from Pomona College where he was captain of the lacrosse team.</p>
<p>Jeffrey Parks '02 (Omnicom Group)
Cofounder
Riverwood Capital
Menlo Park and New York City</p>
<p>Jeff Parks co-founded Riverwood Capital (formerly known as Bigwood Capital) with Michael Marks and Nic Brathwaite in 2007. Riverwood is a growth equity firm focused on international opportunities in the middle market. Today, Riverwood has approximately $200mm of capital under management, and is led by six partners with a total of over 100 years of relevant experience. Prior to Riverwood, Jeff was an investment executive at Kohlberg Kravis Roberts & Co (“KKR”), where he focused on a variety of private equity investments in the technology sector. While at KKR, Jeff was involved in many of the largest technology buyouts ever completed, including SunGard Data Systems, Avago Technologies (formerly Agilent Semiconductor Products Group) and NXP (formerly Philips Semiconductor). Prior to joining KKR, Jeff was an investment professional in the Principal Opportunities Fund at Oaktree Capital Management, where he focused on private equity opportunities in distressed companies. While at Oaktree, Jeff helped oversee the successful restructuring a technology services business, moving operations offshore and rationalizing product lines. Previously, Jeff was with UBS Investment Bank in Los Angeles, where he was involved in a variety of mergers & acquisitions, as well as financing transactions across several industries. Jeff received his dual B.A. in Economics and Mathematics from Pomona College. He was a member of Carnegie Consulting, the very first of the Pomona College senior seminars in corporate strategy. He headed up the project on Ford Motor Company.</p>
<p>Matt Thompson is Vice President, Finance at Glendon Partners, which is part of The Gores Group, a private equity firm. Matt is responsible for portfolio company financial oversight and controls as well as leading financial due diligence activities. Prior to joining Glendon, Matt was a Director at FTI Consulting, concentrating on financial and operational restructurings for Communications and Media clients. Prior to FTI, he spent three years as a Director of Corporate Development at Sony Pictures Entertainment, where he completed over $400 million of acquisitions, divestitures, and business launches of television networks and new media properties globally. Prior to Sony, Matt was a Senior Associate in the restructuring practice of Alvarez and Marsal. He also served as a Technology M&A Summer Associate at JPMorgan. Matt holds a B.A. in Biology and Economics from Pomona College and an MBA from Stanford. He is a Certified Insolvency and Restructuring Advisor and a Licensed International Financial Analyst.</p>
<p>Jenn Wilcox '08 (YUM! Brands)
Analyst
Goldman, Sachs & Co.
San Francisco, California </p>
<p>Jenn Wilcox joined Goldman Sachs as an analyst in the Investment Banking Division - Public Sector and Infrastructure Banking in July 2008. After working for six months in New York, Jenn was transferred to San Francisco to provide analytical, deal execution, and quantitative support for infrastructure-related financings on the West Coast. She works closely with public sector municipalities across the West, and has executed transactions for the State of Washington, the City and County of San Francisco, Sound Transit and the Metropolitan Water District of Southern California. Jenn graduated from Pomona College in May 2008 with a degree in economics. While at Pomona, she was a member of the varsity tennis team and was involved with the Pomona Student Union. As a senior, Jenn acted as a student liaison for the Economics Department and as a member of the 2008 Pomona College senior seminar on corporate strategy she headed up the Tiffany project.</p>
<p>Jacob Ziemann '08 (Salesforce.com)
Analyst
Investment Banking Division
Morgan Stanley
San Francisco</p>
<p>Jacob Ziemann is an analyst in Morgan Stanley’s Investment Banking Division where he works in the Financial Sponsors Group in San Francisco. In the Sponsors Group he works alongside the major global large-cap private equity firms on front-end buyout financings/M&A and portfolio company exits. He has worked on a number of projects involving new acquisition leveraged financings, portfolio company refinancing/capital raising, and distressed company/asset purchases. He is an on-going volunteer with St. Anthony’s Foundation and works with De Marillac Academy, an innovative primary school for children from low-income families. At Pomona, Jacob studied PPE with a focus on Economics and attended Oxford during study abroad. While at Pomona College he held leadership roles in the Pomona Student Union, Sagehen Capital Management, and the Claremont Consulting Group.</p>
<p>Sagehens Beyond the Gates: Careers in the Finance World
February 16, 7:30 pm-8:45 pm, PO – SCC 217</p>
<p>Investment bankers help companies and governments issue securities, help investors purchase securities, manage financial assets, trade securities and provide financial advice. As you can see investment banking is not a single type of work – there are many areas within investment banking – where will you decide to begin your career? Options in investment banking include: corporate finance, mergers and acquisitions, project finance, trading, structured finance, derivatives, equity and fixed income research, public finance, retail brokerage, institutional sales, and more. This panel of alumni will tell their stories of what they did to attain their positions and what the day-to-day life on the job is all about.</p>
<p>Interestingly, only a couple of the people you mentioned are actually in the investment banking industry. Your definition is pretty good, but your examples are not accurate. </p>
<p>I am sure there are Pomona graduates who work in the investment banking area, but Pomona is not really considered a target school for most investment banks. At the 5Cs, most of the investment banks recruit at CMC because of the economics-accounting and economics-finance programs as well as the Robert Day Scholar program. Having said that, I am sure a student who goes to Pomona can become an investment banker if that is their goal. I think most people in the business would agree it might not be the best school for such a person.</p>
<p>Also, you can find graduates from hundreds of colleges in the country who work in the investment banking industry.</p>
<p>Anecdotally, I know Pomona kids do fine in IB and consulting placement, but to be honest, Amherst and Williams are both known as pipelines to the industry on the east coast. So if you really don’t care about the differences between the schools, and want to pick based on connections with that world, Pomona may not be the best choice. If west coast is your goal, I’m guessing Stanford would beat Pomona, but it really depends on the student.</p>
<p>By the way, you’re the first student I’ve heard claim to have a “slot” at Pomona. Don’t believe that’s the way it works, but I admire your bravado! Good luck with the decision.</p>
<p>And walnut - I’m impressed by your marshalling of facts, even if some of those folks are outside the official IB world.</p>
<p>Hey FauxNom, with the new coaching staff they are doing early reads (approximately 1 month before ED dates). A “clear” on these reads ONLY for ED is as good as a slot.</p>
<p>I think this may be a more relevant and helpful comment. Pomona actually does have some great resources for people interested in I-banking (I know from experience). We have one of the largest student run investment funds in the country (Sagehen Capital Management) and just through the fund alumni you have enough connections to land you a solid job at an Ibanking firm.
While people are pointing out that the brand recognition is not as good. This is somewhat of a misnomer. Because Pomona is a small school companies generally don’t want to expend the resources to recruit on Campus to look at 15 candidates. However, having Pomona College on your resume is never going to hurt you relative to anyone else, and honestly, if you join this club you have just as good a shot as anyone at landing a finance job after graduation. Not to mention the fact that Pomona is just an awesome place to go to school and even the people interested in finance are nice, smart, helpful, and not as big of <em>insert word</em> as you might think. Though I don’t think that you can go wrong at any of those places, so you will do just fine.</p>
<p>Hey Snuffles, I am actually very familiar with the investment banks’ recruiting practices. It makes the process much easier for students to have the investment banks recruit on campus. However, the real reason why Pomona students are disadvantaged is because the accounting and finance courses are not available at Pomona. If a students desires a full-time position at an investment bank after graduation, it is very important to intern during the summer between the junior and senior years. I am not sure how familiar you are with the process, but these positions are highly sought after and the interviews are extremely difficult. You will be tested on your knowledge of accounting and corporate finance, and if you haven’t taken a fair number of these courses, there is no way you will get the internship. This is the reason why many of the investment banks recruit at CMC.
Many of the economics-accounting and economics-financial sequence students are applying for these jobs and the career office is actively engaged in preparing the students for these interviews. Each year CMC pays for a select group of students to go to NYC for a week to meet and interview with many of the investment banks. There is also the Robert Day Scholar Program, where students have a finance-related career consultant assigned specifically for them. </p>
<p>I guess what I am saying is this doesn’t happen by chance; CMC works diligently to place students in the financial-services industry. Although being a member of the student investment fund is helpful, it will not get you a job in the investment banking industry. Besides the many reasons I have cited here, the experience is more related to wealth or asset management than investment banking. </p>
<p>I know many people have opinions about this subject and like to promote their schools, but since there are some students who really want to work in this industry, I don’t think it is helpful to them to offer partially informed impressions without an understanding of the process.</p>
<p>hi there,
couldn’t you just go to any of the 5Cs and do an off campus major at CMC for econ-accounting? I’ve actually heard of students doing this, what I don’t know however is if you also have access to CMC recruiting and advising. My guess would be you could still tap into the alumni networks and career programs, most of what really matters as well as doing a resume-drop when firms come for info sessions and interviews/on-campus recruiting.</p>
<p>@parent57, I have no doubt that all other things being equal, CMC has a much better placement program. Though Kingsquirrel is correct in pointing out that if one were truly so inclined they could take a significant amount of finance and or accounting classes at CMC. Furthermore, many if not all of the CMC career programs are open to the 5Cs, or at least, they won’t kick you out if you go (this has been my experience).</p>
<p>Fortunately, ceterus paribus is not indicative of the real world, and with a little initiative, these inequities are not difficult to overcome and are in fact easy to surpass. And Pomona does offer you the resources to do it though again initiative is important. Ultimately, I’m not saying that Pomona is the best place to go for investment banking. All I am saying is that it won’t hurt you if you are committed to that goal i.e. DON’T choose not to go to Pomona despite the fact that you love the school. </p>
<p>I am confused though because I think that you are giving a somewhat idealized account of the industry’s hiring process. For example, dimensional fund advisers does things as trite as to ask you every 15 minutes at which price are various indices, what price you think that they will be at in 2 weeks, etc… Moreover, Pomona does have an astounding amount of Alumni in finance, and as I am sure this is the case at CMC, alumni are more than happy to help hook you up with an interview or two (as has been my experience). Apparently liberal arts students are in vogue at the moment. I’m not denying that the interview is tough, but it’s certainly not the school which you attend that determines your success once engaged in one.</p>
<p>I am not going to get into an argument about this, but if you interview with Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan, Morgan Stanley, Credit Suisse, Lazard, etc., you will be asked detailed accounting and corporate valuation questions, which will require more than a superficial understanding of these subjects. Very few students get these internships, so it is two strikes against you if you don’t know the answers.</p>
<p>As for your example of an interview with Dimensional Fund Advisors, the only problem is that this company is not an investment bank. It is a mutual fund company, specializing in enhanced indexing. For some reason, people on this thread seem to have difficulty distinguishing investment banking from asset (wealth) management and financial advisory services. It is two separate industries, which require very different skill sets and expertise.</p>
<p>You are probably right that Pomona students can take the courses and attend the recruiting events at CMC, but I am pretty sure it is only if space is available after all CMC students are registered.</p>
<p>I am sure it is possible for a Pomona student to get a job with an investment banking firm, whether it be with a bulge or boutique investment bank. All I am saying is it will be more difficult, and as you said, it will require a great deal of initiative on the part of the student because the resources are not readily available at Pomona.</p>