Investment Banking (I-Banking)

<p>Yes, I know someone who recently joined Goldman Sachs. He does not have a green card and is from HongKong but has expertise in developing and implementing proprietary trading strategies. He is going to their Tokyo division to do the same and start a department there. It depends on your skill level and how much they want you, it seems.</p>

<p>Not exactly investment banking in terms of belonging to the advisory business of investment banking or mergers and acquisitions or IPOs but well, still part of an I-bank, so the example is valid.</p>

<p>Thanks Kirmum and Achat. Makes sense to me.</p>

<p>I believe that some of my ECs have much pertinence for a BUSINESS/ECONOMICS degree and also for a career in I-Banking OR Equities after that. That's what I can atleast portray with confidence, in the coll apps, to answer the 'WHY THIS SPECIFIC DEGREE ?' and 'HOW WILL IT FACILITATE YOUR CHOSEN VOCATION ?' questions.</p>

<p>I have posted my profile on this CC Thread - <a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=5939%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=5939&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>After all, one can always prefer a different or related career towards the end of the degree.</p>

<p>These people do not seem to be fresh college graduates, however, right?</p>

<p>Kirmum, your answer isn't quite accurate. In the post 9/11 era, sponsorship is no longer automatic as it once was among top employers (not just banks). In addition, Congress capped last years immigration quota so that it was full in October of 2004, with no new applications to be filed until April 2005. Furthermore, the old days where a students OPT application was pretty automatic after finishind a US degree are over-- again, a lot more INS scrutiny and not automatic. </p>

<p>So-- I wouldn't tell a foreign national that by coming to the US for college, sponsership is automatic. I have no idea what the climate will be like four years from now, but it is changing rapidly right now. There will always be opportunities for "exceptional aliens" IMHO, but for a 22 year old kid with a BA from somewhere who wants to be an I-Banker? I wouldn't bet on it.</p>

<p>cbreeze, this person I am talking about who joined Goldman and is going to Tokyo is very experienced; about 34-35 and at the peak of his career with a lot of valuable experience. Not a new graduate.</p>

<p>For an experienced person with exceptional expertise, US companies would still go through hoops to try to sponsor him. As mentioned before, as far as new college graduates, it's another matter.
My son just graduated last May from undergrad Wharton and fellow international classmate (not from Wharton) is still unemployed because he found companies are reluctant to sponsor him and will return to his native country very soon.</p>

<p>I handle some legal matters for 2 top inv banks, and they are still able to sponsor those they really want using a variety of creative yet legal methods. The kids do have to understand that they will need to bring exceptional skills/background/experience to the table to warrant such attention. There's always interest in exceptional MIT/Caltech grads for example.</p>

<p>I've shortlisted 10 UNDERGRAD BUSINESS PROGS for myself and would like to have advice and suggestions on it.</p>

<p>It's here - <a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?p=308480&posted=1#post308480%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?p=308480&posted=1#post308480&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>It's very generous...but not need blind. In other words, many international kids do get into Princeton though they need aid, but, yes, ability to pay will be considered for internationals. Stanford isn't need blind for internationals either. </p>

<p>Middlebury is one school not mentioned thus far that is need blind for internationals. </p>

<p>At UMichigan-AA internationals are NOT eligible for financial aid..or at least were not as of two years ago..haven't had reason to check since then.</p>

<p>If the OP hasn't already done so, he should check <a href="http://www.edupass.com%5B/url%5D"&gt;www.edupass.com&lt;/a> to get a better understanding of the process of applying to American schools.</p>

<p>I accidentally responded to the OP in the other thread.</p>

<p>As with anything, you must love what you do to do well or stand out in that activity, field, career etc. True, many people become I-bankers because their eyes pop out of their heads when they hear how much a firm is paying 22 y/o naive analysts. However, these are the types of people who quit or even dont last the 2 year analyst stint. If you really love finance and banking then you will do well in I-banking. DO NOT do it just for the cash, i promise you will hate yourself when its 1:30 am and you are slaving away over some trivial excel spreadsheet that means absolutely nothing to the deal your team is working on. You have to find atleast some sort of "fun" in that work. If you really like finance and action look into trading. I used to want to be a banker in M&A but realized it would bore me to death. I developed a love for trading, there is nothing like living on the edge with tics and blips running across your screen. Trying to figure out a way to capitalize on a trend that you see on your moving average or sctochastic oscillator charts (i love forex). There is always action in trading and if you want to have the feeling that you are actually getting something done on a day to day basis, you may want to look into this. Equities, Fixed Income, Currency and Commodoties should be what you search for in trading. My ideal job would be at the FICC desk at Goldman Sachs.
So in essence what im trying to say is make sure you really want to do finance or banking before you apply to the likes of Wharton (my 1st choice). It can be an incredibly rewarding experience, but if its not for you, its not for you. Even if they are paying your boatloads of cash, 100+hr workweeks and not having fun is not the life to lead.
GoodLuck!</p>

<p>Since the most important colleges academically and alse in terms of placements are now more or less picked out,</p>

<p>I request for more help based on the following criteria :
1) That match my stats and profile: <a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=5939%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=5939&lt;/a> (Page 1, Post 1)</p>

<p>2) A Full tuition waiver : Basically my family can afford ~$60K for my education, which should easily take care of an int'l student's "living costs only".</p>

<p>3) Preferences:
-School size, Campus size - Large, but not absolutely essential.</p>

<p>-COLLEGE LIFE shouldn't be like JUST ANOTHER STUDENT IN THE CROWD.
CLASS SIZE preferably SMALL.
Hence INDIVIDUAL ATTENTION is a MUST.
Should be where EVERYBODY KNOWS EVERYONE.
Where fellow students are FRIENDS FOR LIFE, NOT FAIR WEATHER and SNOBBY.</p>

<p>-Climate : Not so important, but NOT VERY COLD. Ideal climate - like California (paragon for Indians)</p>

<p>-City : Very URBAN (Almost a concrete jungle). The city where I live (Mumbai) is one of the largest in India</p>

<p>I hope so many criteria are not too intimidating.</p>

<p>Thanks for any suggestions.</p>

<p>No jonri, Princeton is indeed need blind for internationals.</p>

<p>Akshay</p>

<p>"Basically my family can afford ~$60K for my education"</p>

<p>I am sure that not too many Indians living in India can afford this much money for undergrad school admissions. Most of the elite colleges who have endowments tend to admit based on three criterions 1. Extremely wealthy kids like Godrej, Ambanis etc. 2. Very well connected kids like Rahul Gandhi 3. Very Intelligent kids who have made distinctions like CBSE topper etc. Most of elite universities are very well familiar with schooling system in India. If you want to go a lower university, the problem exists that you may have hard time to get a placement job. That is why I came myself to study in USA at a grad level. </p>

<p>If you want to go to a top school, then do an undergrad from a reputed Indian University. Delhi University or even IIMs route is very good. You are far better off doing undergrad from India and then applying for a grad school here. </p>

<p>However, things are changing and you may get a break by multinational and placed in India. Think carefully that if your parents can shell this money then you should apply to a school, which has some reputation in India. Good luck.</p>

<p>NEW LIST</p>

<p>Business :</p>

<p>Carnegie Mellon University (PA)
Univ. of Southern California (Marshall)
Indiana University–Bloomington (Kelley)
Emory University (Goizueta) (GA)
University of Notre Dame (IN)
Georgetown University (McDonough) (DC)
University of Georgia (Terry)
Tulane University (Freeman) (LA)
Boston University(MA)</p>

<p>Economics :
Stanford
UCLA
University of Chicago</p>

<p>1) Any other top business/economics school where the climate is pleasant that I did not mention here ?</p>

<p>2) Please tell me why why Uof Virginia, Uof Illinois, cornell and purdue are being disapproved for me, even though they are in the top 20 for business</p>

<p>3) IS IT POSSIBLE TO APPLY TO BUSINESS AND ECONOMICS PROGRAMMES (DIFFERENT COLLEGES) ?</p>

<p>Thank you for all comments and suggestions</p>

<p>Ashkay, even with perfect stats, few school offer a full tuition waiver for anyone. You have to get in line for the financial aid and merit scholarships just like everyone else. That you are international, complicates things as there are only a few schools that are need blind for internationals, and you have to check if there are any funds available for internationals whereever you apply. Though your family has made a determination on what they feel they can pay, things are not determined that way. You will have to fill out a number of forms and verify the items on it for the colleges to come up with what they feel your family can pay. There is usually a large discrepancy between those two numbers. The ivies and a number of other very selective school only give need based aid, so whatever they come up with for need is what you will get, if you get in. There is no merit aid at those schools. There are a number of schools that do offer merit packages for their most outstanding candidated, schools such as University of Chicago, CIT, Duke. Those scholarships are most prized and the competition is steep to get one. A 1600 SAT1 does not in anyway ensure one, though it pretty much guarantees you won't be eliminated on the basis of a low SAT1. I do not know if internationals are eligible for those awards.</p>

<p>My suggestion to you is to research the best match in schools for you in terms of possiblility of getting aid since that is the most pressing problem. Once you have such a list, you can then see which colleges have the type of courses that give you he highest probability of getting into the banking field. My husband is an IB who worked with a top firm, and is now working independently. From his employee lists, I can see all sorts of colleges represented. To be an actual trader or to get a seat, is one thing, but there are many back office jobs where strong technical knowledge is sought and they really do not give a fig if you come from a tech school or Yale. For certain structured products and analyses, specific math skills are essential. My husband is very strongly math based and it takes him all of 10 minutes if that to assess whether a candidate can handle the math needed to the type of work he does/did. Certain other positions can be achieved once you get a toe hold into a company. But I don't think any particular major is valued over another. I was just at a number of holiday dinners with NY investment bankers many of whom are going through the college process with their kids, and when the subject came up, they were all over the place in what they studied. Many of them did come from the "name" school, but they also came for "name" families. Hobart was a school that came up several times, hardly a most selective school but they are well represented at a very heavy hitters function My husband is as "pedigreed" as any of them with a top name undergrad school and a Uof Ch MBA but what got him into the field is many years of poorly paid work with some of the best minds in the world/country in financial products modeling, and most of those contacts came when he was working in postgrad positions for a pittance at a number of schools. That is really the surest way for anyone who wants to get into the field to find a place. Spend the time researching what the field needs, and work on some solutions. If you have what they need, there is enough of a shortage of that, so you will get a job in the field with no problem. My H can basically name his terms at this point because there is little competition in what he does. But he has spent over 30 years building expertise to this point and some of those years were very bleak financially, and since he did not have this as a goal when he was doing the work, it was not a direct path. But I also believe what makes him so good is that he throroughly enjoyed the work he did, what most people would regard as terrible, unrewarding, poorly paid grunt work that was very difficult and time consuming. I don't know too many people who put in this kind of time. But what he gained is apparently worth money to those in IB field, and H will tell anyone that where you went to school as an undergrad is insignificant in the type of work he does. After several years in NYC and Stamford, he decided that he did not need the hours and demands of a job in such a firm as he did not like the moment to moment work, the atmosphere, nothing. He did not have that much time to spend with our very large and hopping family, he could not do many of the things that he truly enjoyed, so when he realized he could make as much or more on his own time by sticking to a niche and joing a small firm that offered much flexibility, he did so. The men in his firm range from multi millionaires with many deals going at a time, to those who prefer to spend some of the time enjoying the money they earn and work accordingly. He is in the latter category. Without being tied to a company, his earning were not affected in the least by market performance as his expertise is needed regardless of what is happening and probably more urgently wanted when things are not going well. For him, it is a happy medium, and I am very thankful that he found this place in the workworld after many years of trying different things.</p>

<p>Akshay I wouldn't get discouraged by parentny's three criterias. Among the Indians on CC two of the early acceptances came for people who applied for aid. gandalf (1600, great EC's and essays) and got in at Williams. ritz (15xx, great EC's and essays) got in at Harvard. They had great stats but they don't fulfill parentny's three criterias AFAIK. Extremely rich? No. Very well-connected? No. Very intelligent and school toppers, yeah, but not CBSE toppers as he suggested. And as you can see, both were need blind schools.</p>

<p>Maybe the regular decisions would give you a better idea. Check the Indian Post come April for that ;). It's good you've started gearing up in class 11 and already taken the SAT's. sucharita's princeton interviewer told her that for intls, the SAT score matters a lot more because their understanding of the system here is limited at best - so your score would definitely help. Keep your rank up. And devote yourself to the EC's that interest you.</p>

<p>And don't be so hung on the tuition waiver because you might just get it in need-based aid. Keep your criteria instead to be "good aid" for an intl / generous merit aid.</p>

<p>Another thing is that you're a commerce student. I really don't know, but I think it's harder for a commerce student - ritz is a comm student tho.</p>

<p>jamimom's advice is excellent and absolutely on the mark. I smile when I see kids on these forums asking about I-banking jobs, when they're just applying for undergrad! My H and B-I-L are both lawyers involved in the banking world and I think what these kids don't realize is that you don't jump into a high paying job straight out of college. The successful and senior positions are filled with experienced individuals who have labored for years to get there. Many of them have MBA's and engineering degrees. The people who handle the complicated financial structured deals are math wizards, trust me. It's not an easy field to work in, nor is it a guaranteed money-maker for everyone involved.</p>

<p>I would pay attention to astrix's post about not getting discouraged, though. And if you really want to, apply to Wharton but know that it is a big reach.</p>