<p>I never said that banks discriminate pay on pedigree. "Oh my friends went to Cornell so other people got more is just wrong..." Those were words you just put into my mouth. </p>
<p>The point of my statement was that i-banks were hiring like crazy from even the low-tier Ivies like Cornell, and that these new hires (who I've talked to at least) have gotten that much in total compensation.</p>
<p>And you know what, I wouldn't doubt that there probably is some sort of salary discrimination from soemone who went to say, Bentley compared to another who went to Harvard. I'm sure stuff like that goes on, although probably for differences in base salary that is not worth complaining over. Plus, what investment bank worth their salt hires from Bentley College? I'm screwed unless I can get into SEO...</p>
<p>sammy101 - I look for someone who is a problem solver and someone that is good at taking calculated risk. We often need to make decesions very quickly based the information we are given (often information is not complete and you need to know when it's enough). That's especially the case when I was structuring/pricing deals, and head of th desk would asks, "are you sure this is right, should we go ahead and price?" Therefore when I used to interview for those positions, I would find out how a candidates would solve problems, decision making process, and work ethic. Sometime I would purpsoely put them in a difficult position to see if they'll get frazzled.
Yes - I am at least a VP.:) I don't work that many weekends now, but I do travel more. I have switched over to IT to be more available for my family. But when a new trading system needs to be rolled out, you better make sure it's up and running for HKG Mon morning, all the way to when NY opens (that's why I sleep with my BB). What I say to new hires is, "You can get an A- or B+ in school, but here you either get an A or an F." It is exciting, sometimes a fun environment, but most of the time it's very stressful (that's why they pay you). It's important to strike a balance between work and personal life. The reason I have been able to stay in it is because I have always tried to strike that balance, even when I was an analyst at Morgan. I do see many women in this business doing it. Head of Sales from my firms is a women and has 4 kids - heart of steel, but a lovely person.</p>
<p>Oldfort-- I think it would benefit a lot of people here if you could honestly describe your life during your 20s, since this is where most of the people here are interested in. Im sure you are enjoying your life now and things are less hectic, but Im sure it wasnt always that way?</p>
<p>No, it wasn't always that way. It was very normal to work until 10pm most of the nights and 1-2 all nighters. It was very hectic when we were pricing and closing deals. I never knew if I would have my weekend free until Fri afternoon. There were many mornings where a car service would take me home, waited down stairs while I showered, then took me back to work. My MD used to say to us, "I don't care what you did the night before(he meant working all night), but you are expected to be at your desk by 9am." There were many cancelled vacations.</p>
<p>But that being said, it was also a lot of fun. My best friends are people that I met as analyst and associate. We worked and partied together. We were given more responsibility than we could have imagined. When we were in our 20s, we were flying first class, staying at top hotels and representing our firm in closing deals. Investment banks do work their analysts and associates to the ground, but it does get better(that's why we have analysts and associates). It is not anything different than other professions - doctor, lawyer, etc. You have to love it to some extend.<br>
If you can, I would get my experience from Morgan, Goldman, Lehman, etc. What you could learn at those firms is invaluable, even if you should decide not to stay in the business. Other foreign firms' training programs are not as structured and not worth as much. This is more of a side note, it's helpful to have a mentor and you may get that through your school connection. I was fortunate to have someone when I was in my 20s. He helped me to work on some good deals and when I was ready to move on he also showed me how to negtotiate with perspective employers.</p>
<p>where did you get your MBA? looks like i'll have to get one because there appears to be no room for advancement beyond analyst for people without a grad degree</p>
<p>No MBA. I was one of very few at my firm that became an associate without a MBA because what I was doing was very specialized and no MBA program was teaching it at that time. Today, you most certainly need a MBA or graduate degree. Many of my friends said that we don't think we could get a job on the Street now, it has become a lot more competitive. If my kids want to go into Ibanking, I would have them major in math/engineering, and take as many programming classes as possible, do 2 years of analyst program, then top MBA school.</p>
<p>IB/Public Accounting/MC/Law/Military operate on a "up or out" policy. My advice is to make and save all the money you can early on, leave IB before you get shown the door ie. "dont let the door hit you on the way out".</p>
<p>If you must stay in Finance, figure a way to get to the "buy side" ASAP.</p>
<p>
[quote]
IB/Public Accounting/MC/Law/Military operate on a "up or out" policy. My advice is to make and save all the money you can early on, leave IB before you get shown the door ie. "dont let the door hit you on the way out".</p>
<p>If you must stay in Finance, figure a way to get to the "buy side" ASAP.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Please exlpain because i want to go into IB and i plan on getting a doublemajor in Finance/Accounting</p>
<p>The sell side of IB constantly has pressure to "sell", do deals, maintain the pipeline. That is, the high salaries IB people get require a constant and increasing revenue stream to support the business. Every business has ups and downs. You really have to watch for the downside in IB, since IB will have no issue in "cutting back" (eliminating jobs) if business is weak. Big bonuses and happy times when business is good.</p>
<p>Buy side people such as portfolio managers operate in a different risk/reward system. Less risk/less reward. That said, buy side jobs still pay well and are very difficult to obtain.</p>
<p>Fin/accounting double major is fine but probably not necessary. IB hire a variety of people/skill sets. Economics/Math/Engineering/Business all are good majors. A good GPA is very important.</p>
<p>last year (05-06), the average 1st analyst salary was $110k. My guess is that 06-07 (since 06 was such a phenomenal year) compensation will be $120, and $140 at the bulge brackets.</p>
<p>1st year Associate salaries (1st year post-MBA) at top banks ranged from $250k to $320k</p>
<p>your the first person to say that programming is a good tool to have as an IB analyst. I love programming, can you tell me more about you found it usefull?</p>
<p>Also, by majoring in engineering, you’re taught to think in different ways, but don’t you lack the tools of a student that majored in accounting or finance?</p>
<p>oldfort, by saying that your work involved structuring/pricing, I’m assuming you worked in a quantitative role…based on this, what would you say are the hours and salaries of those in highly quantitative positions such as derivatives pricing, structuring, risk management etc compared to those in less quantitative positions such as M&A etc…also, if i double major in finance and math as an undergrad, would that be sufficient preparation to land a quant job, or do i absolutely need a graduate degree in quantitative finance? thanks</p>
<p>if I graduated with a major in engineering, and would i be better off going into IB or becoming a Quant, if I want to make lots of money, but especially have prestige/power? also i’m very introverted but if i have to become a lot more outgoing to get that prestige/power, i’ll work hard for it. Also, i wish to avoid teamwork as much as possible, as i’d much rather work alone. Also, i didnt take any finance/econ classes during my undergrad</p>
<p>I think Oldfort means an engineering degree from MIT, CIT, Stanford or similar. And yes, many of these end up in quant jobs. The type of kids who go to these schools have a wide range of skills (look at the average CR scores at these colleges) and are not your run of the mill engineers.</p>
<p>The thing is…You guys think your supposed to work at investment banks for life…THAT IS COMPLETELY FALSE.Guys at goldman sachs regularly work till their 40s and retires as vp. Heck some people only go there for a massive learning experience</p>