<p>PLEASE READ THE WHOLE THING!
Before anyone says "anything over 100k is too much" blah blah blah, I'm going to be a pharmacy major and I'm going to be attending St. John's University this upcoming fall. I've been reading everywhere how even 30k in student loans is too much but I'm technically doing both undergrad AND pharmacy school in 6 years. Everyone's been telling me that the amount of debt I'll be in is normal for pharmacy students but I just want to know other people's opinions. ALSO, I'm still in the process of applying for all my loans and after my Pell Grant, federal loans, and other state grants, my out of pocket costs is still about $15,000. (By the way, I think my EFC was 0 and I'm going to be dorming). In my financial aid package, it said that I can just apply for the PArent PLUS loan for the remaining 15,000 but are there any other options for me? I've been told to apply for private loans but what exactly are private loans and how does it compare to the PLUS loan? Also, just wondering but I read that the fed. direct student loans have a cap, so can you ask for more if you need it?</p>
<p>First, paragraphs are your friends, use them.</p>
<p>Second, fresh graduates with PharmD degree make about 80K to start. I think 130K is a bit too much of debt for somebody making 80K a year.</p>
<p>Third, if your parents are not approved for parents Plus, then you can get 4.5K more in Direct loans. But that is the limit, which is there for a reason (see above).</p>
<p>Please read the whole thing:
$15K a year in out-of-pocket costs for a family with a zero EFC is likely to be a challenge.
You can only take out loans up to the Direct loans limit ($5500 for a freshman). If your parent(s) qualify for a Parent PLUS loan, do they have any ability to start paying it back right away? How will they qualify in future years? If they don’t qualify, your federal loan limit as a freshman rises a bit, but not nearly enough to make up a nearly $10K gap.</p>
<p>Even working summers and during the school year you’d be hard-pressed to do that, and St. John’s is likely to want the vast majority of the fall semester charges paid upfront. </p>
<p>You’ve got a big gap here, and unless there is some other source of funding, I don’t see how you fill it.</p>
<p>Have you done this analysis? To pay off $130,000 in 10 years, assuming an interest rate of 7%, will cost you $1,500 a month. After taxes. Depending on your tax bracket and state of residence, that’s perhaps $2,500 a month before taxes. That’s $30,000 a year. Before you have you first nickel to pay for food, lodging, transportation, insurance, much less entertainment.</p>
<p>Stretch it out to 20 years, it’s $1,000 a month after taxes, maybe $1,600 before taxes. Debt you’ll be paying until you’re in your mid-40s.</p>
<p>I don’t know what pharmacists make. Maybe it’s worth it. Only you can decide. But perhaps there are other, less expensive paths that will lead you to the same professional result.</p>
<p>How are you going to pay $15,000 out of pocket for six years?</p>
<p>You cannot take out PLUS loans - only your parents can.</p>
<p>You cannot take out private loans - only your parents can.</p>
<p>Well, the cheaper route I could’ve taken was attend SUNY University at Buffalo but they don’t offer a direct 0-6 program; they only offer 2+4 programs, which means I need to take the PCAT and apply for the pharmacy school after 2 years. Even though Buffalo’s tuition is MUCH cheaper for me since I am a NYS resident, I would only save like an extra 5-10k at most. </p>
<p>But anyways, there’s no other cheaper route than that. All PharmD programs are expensive and I’ve been told that pharmacy graduates typically graduate with around 150k</p>
<p>polarscribe,
I’m going to be paying 16k out of pocket for the first 4 years, and then the last 2 years are covered by entirely my student loans.</p>
<p>Also, some people have been telling me that PLUS loans are better than private and others have been telling me that private loans are better than the PLUS loans…what does everyone think about this???</p>
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<p>No, you aren’t going to be paying anything, because you don’t have the money. Your parents are the only ones who can take those loans out. You haven’t answered whether or not your parents are willing and able to borrow $60,000 in PLUS or private loans - loans that go on their credit record and which they are on the hook for if you default.</p>
<p>If your parents won’t or can’t take those loans out, you can’t pay a dime and you won’t be able to afford the school.</p>
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<p>Only “an extra 5-10k” per year? That’s $40,000 over the course of a four-year degree. That’s not “only,” that’s as much as I’m borrowing for an entire master’s degree. If you’re pooh-poohing the opportunity to save $40,000, you have no sense of money.</p>
<p>Oh woops sorry. I’m not 100% finished with applying for all my loans but if they are eligible to take out both PLUS or private loans, which will be the better choice? </p>
<p>ALso, I’m a little confused. You said that only parents can take out private loans but I read in another thread whether or not the parent should co-sign the loan. If it’s already the parent’s loan, why do they have to co-sign it?</p>
<p>Private loans go in your name, but they have to be co-signed by someone with good credit history, who goes on the hook for all the debt. If your parents won’t co-sign them - or don’t pass the credit check - you won’t be allowed to borrow.</p>
<p>Nor is there any guarantee that your parents will qualify to co-sign for $16,000 in loans each and every year. The bank could tell you, after you’re two years into the program, “We’re not loaning to you anymore.” Then what are you going to do? You’re on the hook for two years’ worth of loans and you can’t afford to stay in the school.</p>
<p>PLUS loans are signed for directly by the parents.</p>
<p>Oh one more question – What may cause my parents to be denied a PLUS loan or private loan? Their credit score? Is that the only factor?</p>
<p>Hmm I just looked around College Confidential and your parents don’t have to co-sign…
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/1352209-should-parent-cosign-private-student-loan.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/1352209-should-parent-cosign-private-student-loan.html</a></p>
<p>I’m a bit confused. So I could still get a private loan without one of my parents co-signing it?</p>
<p>asd333,
Make sure you want to become a pharmacist because you are driven to become one, not because someone told you pharmacists make a lot of money. Do much research of the available data out there. Talk to pharmacists and try to get a job shadow before you begin this very long road. I’ve read that pharmacy is becoming an oversaturated career path with new pharmacy schools. Does this school offer the PharmD? Apparently, it’s the only way to go now. Good luck!</p>
<p>Oh definately not. I’m not in it for the money at all. I’ve always wanted to become something in the medical field so when I did college applications, I only applied to pharmacy programs, nursing programs, and just a biology major (for pre-med). </p>
<p>All of April, I seriously had no sleep because I could not decide between the three. I thought about it ALL THE TIME. I got into arguments with my parents because they wanted me to become a pharmacist since it is a stable profession and I will be earning a pretty good salary. They kept pushing me towards pharmacy since they had to face so many financial problems due to their low salary and they don’t want me to face huge financial burdens.</p>
<p>I ultimately chose pharmacy in the end because I already got accepted into PharmD programs. I decided to try it out and if I don’;t like it, I could always end up doing pre-med or maybe nursing. </p>
<p>Plus, everyone I’ve talked to told me that since I’m not sure what exactly I want to do in the health/medical field, they told me to start out in pharmacy first since it’ll be harder for me to go in undecided and later on apply for pharmacy school</p>
<p>My sons friend just graduated from pharm school in phila. It was a six year program. </p>
<p>He was able to work throughout school.</p>
<p>I can tell you that right now he is making $60,000. As soon as he passes his boards in about a month his salary jumps to $120,000. He is working for a major drug store chain.</p>
<p>Depending on how you handle your finances you could be okay IF you actually finish …and get your degree …and pass boards …and get a job.</p>
<p>No, you cannot get a private loan without a credit worthy co-signer.</p>
<p>I don’t think you’ll get the Pell Grant for all 4 years. I think you’ll be considered a grad student after the 3rd year, so fed grants will stop after that. </p>
<p>You won’t be able to get the loans that you need.</p>
<p>Also…what happens if during the undergrad years, you either don’t have the grades, or no longer have an interest in pharmacy? Then you’ll have debt and then what?</p>
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<p>I believe with the 6 year combined pharm programs, you are considered a professional student at some point during the program (possibly year 3) at which time you become ineligible for federal grant aid such as the Pell grant. Check this with your school, but I know other pharm students have posted about this. I don’t know about state grants, but you may want to check that out as well.</p>
<p>
Is that a real question?</p>
<p>OP, are you aware that just because you got into the 6-year PharmD program does not automatically mean you’ll successfully complete it? A third of the students in the pharmacy school at St. John’s don’t graduate in six years.</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.stjohns.edu/download.axd/e2c61f0a4a734defbd3ca77cf9596e70.pdf?d=6%20yr%20graduation%2097-03%20(2[/url])”>http://www.stjohns.edu/download.axd/e2c61f0a4a734defbd3ca77cf9596e70.pdf?d=6%20yr%20graduation%2097-03%20(2)</a></p>
<p>And to stay in, you need to keep all your grades at B or above.</p>
<p>“Students in the graduate programs are required to receive at least a “B” grade in all courses. … Master’s and Pharm.D. students who receive more than two grades less than “B” are typically considered for academic dismissal.”</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.stjohns.edu/media/3/1a04ae40adad4ff191986dc797e54cb8.pdf[/url]”>http://www.stjohns.edu/media/3/1a04ae40adad4ff191986dc797e54cb8.pdf</a></p>
<p>I know you plan to do well in college. 100% of entering freshmen do. But you need to factor into the equation the very real possibility that you may not complete your degree – and then you’ll be left with nothing but the debt, and very possibly no real means to ever get out from under it.</p>
<p>Whatever you choose to do, best wishes.</p>
<p>Tough question. I was a profesional medical recruiter for many years. I know what you are going to do and what you can expect when you graduate. The bottom line is IF you are only going to come out owing 130k as a doctor of pharm, you MAY be ok. I would caution you on a couple of things. </p>
<p>First, colleges can have “unexpected” significant jumps in tuition. That can throw off your numbers. But assuming that it remains steady, your job outlook is fairly bright (although a ton of pharmacists that you see working for the corner pharmacy really don’t like their jobs much). </p>
<p>Second, when you do make the “big money” of 100k plus (and you will), you must factor in paying REAL taxes, and REAL expenses like a decent car, house, furniture, etc. And your retirement (time is more important than money in that regard). Nearly everyone overestimates what their net pay will be. And underestimates what they will owe. God help you if you ever miss a student loan payment. </p>
<p>So as long as you are TRULY cool with working your butt off thru school, working your butt off after school, and having the disposable income of say, a registered nurse…then you are ok. Those loans kill your disposable income for a decade. Be prepared for that. Good luck.</p>