Is 3 Years of Foreign Language Really Necessary for Engineering Major?

I’m letting my TX 10th grader skip the 3rd year also. My other son who is a Senior had to have the 3 years for the most advanced diploma but I guess they have changed that requirement in the last year or so. Went to the planning meeting last night and in our district they now only require 2 years of language for the advanced diploma. 1st son is doing Engineering and none of the schools we looked at needed more than 2 years. I explained to my 10th grader that some colleges want 3 or even 4 years and he said the schools he would be interested in are along the same lines as the ones his brother looked at so he was good.

What is Spanish III about?
My 7th grader is taking Spanish IA and in 8th takes Spanish IB so that will be one year when she hits high school and freshman year will be Spanish II. She is already asking if she has to take 3 years also. We too are in Texas and only looking a state schools or OOS auto merit schools.

For engineering she should be totally fine with 2 years and very very few schools require foreign language for engineering. My son only took 2 years and has gotten into highly competitive schools and gotten lots of merit aid offers. He did take extra math and science AP classes instead which totally made sense for him.

@VANURSEPRAC Not sure your question but in our school the Spanish 3 teacher is not great. The curriculum is based on Castilian Spanish which bears little resemblance to what Mexican natives or their children in our area of the country speak. Native speakers rarely have their kids stay in high school Spanish here and it isn’t because they already know it. It is good prep for AP Spanish but not very useful in the real world.

For Class of 2018 and later, the state (via HB 5) has effectively stopped requiring three years for the highest diplomas.

Our school district made the mistake of under weighting the FL classes. They are fixing the weighting issue next year so that kids who need it for ultraselective schools are not punished in the ranking, etc. With all of the endorsement options, there are plenty of paths for those that don’t want to take Level 3 -5. Choosing not to take them may close some doors in highly selective schools though.

When my DD was a senior, she was going to continue with Spanish but then her AP Bio teacher convinced her that Anatomy and Physiology would be the right thing for her (as the AP Bio teacher teaches that too)…so since she had gotten to Spanish 4 we said that would be fine. However her college requires a language which she is taking now so hopefully she will remember enough having skipped a year.

This is such an interesting perspective to me. My junior future-engineering son’s independent school requires FL through level 3 and doesn’t consider anything below level 4 (for the kids who didn’t get approved for Honors 3) or AP to be “most rigorous.” CC also is very much in the mindset of “recommended” means “required” at selective schools regardless of major. Our GC recommendations put a lot of emphasis on challenging oneself outside one’s favored area (Calc and AP sciences for the liberal arts kids; non-STEM for the STEM kids). I can only think of one top STEM kid who didn’t take level 4 foreign language this year and he opted for AP Music Theory (and AP Lit. for senior year) to show breadth. Having said all that, my son will be applying to some schools with core language requirements for graduation (that he very much wants to place out of with his AP score) and others that recommend through level 4 for high school, so we didn’t spend a lot of time thinking about his choice.

Yes, in Texas HB5 allow the highest honor diploma with 2 years of FL. I am living example of one blooms where planted and so shall my D2021. Texas has some great state schools for engineering and all state schools are requiring 2 years.

Absolutely, A number of Texas schools are much more attractive than those in my state (which are not awful, but S17 has zero interest).

You can challenge yourself outside of STEM with things other than foreign language. It depends on your school but ours was very positive about my son’s choice of courses and gave him the most rigorous stamp of approval even with just 2 years of for lang. He took other AP classes outside of STEM in the areas he was legitimately interested in. It’s one thing if your kids just doesn’t care much for for lang but when they actively hate it and aren’t going to need it there is no sense wasting so much time for something maybe colleges will care about. Even if it affects which diploma you will get that doesn’t matter because that is not something any college asks about. In our state it’s just an extra sticker on the diploma. This is exactly the thing admissions offices say they don’t want you to do–take classes that you hate outside of the core requirements just to look good. Taking classes you actually enjoy makes studying fun not a chore.

^The trouble is I attended a school that considered 4 years of a foreign language as a core. Even here in NYS three years is considered the minimum for a Regent’s (college prep) diploma. I spent five years in Germany and one in France where even kids on the non-college track learned a foreign language and often two starting in elementary school. I have a hard time thinking that learning a foreign language is not a basic part of being educated.

I do not know many folks that still recall much of the languages they “learned” unless they lived in the country that speaks the language or they make a very concerted effort to use the language regularly. I do not agree that learning a foreign language is a basic part of being educated if you are from a country like the US which is very large/prosperous and speaks English.

For context, I lived overseas for 13 years and picked up a respectable amount of a second language, my wife speaks 3 languages, son speaks two fluently and is learning Spanish.

@mathmom, I see your point. I would love for daughter to have a classical education. But I have to pick my battles.
She is not enjoying Spanish. But she is taking an online writing class. We are working through middle school level classic literature and she is now participating in a Socratic discussion monthly online I am hoping she developes a lifelong love of reading beyond dystopian literature.

Again, we are absolutely not shooting for a school that would require 4 years of Fl.

We are following the AUTO merit money.

Oh believe me I get it. As Americans we have the luxury of the fact that nearly every one in the world has learned English as their foreign language. That said, I regularly wish I had learned Spanish instead of French and German, both of which I speak quite well.

Meeting requirements and being competitive are two different things. For UW (Wisconsin) 4 years are what most applicants have even if only 2 are required. Plus- there a student gets admitted to the university as a whole- STEM students are in the same applicant pool as those not into sciences.

Being educated means so much more than just knowing one’s field. As an eons ago chemistry major I had 4 HS years worth of French then added 2+ of German in college. Plus plenty of science and nonscience classes. Taking four years of a language gives much more than the rudiments- more culture and literature. It also helps one understand how our own English works (I was lucky and never learned all of the labels for grammar in my English classes- got those in French and was in Honors lit for required college courses). Lost any fluency through disuse but understanding how languages are structured and learning different cultures stuck with me.

I question loading up on HS versions (even those labeled AP) of too many science courses. The college versions will include a lot more and have much better labs. Never heard of organic chem in HS.

Find time for more than STEM classes now and in college. She is so much more than her major.

It may not be necessary to major in engineering, but not having enough foreign language limits the options for schools since many require it. It depends on what her priorities are. Check where she wants to go and see how many years they require/recommend and go from there.

btw- so many requirements are not needed to merely perform a job. Consider going above and beyond the minimums to enrich her life. Someday your D will not merely be an engineer but hopefully an adult who can enjoy the world around her. This includes language, literature, music, arts, nature, cultures and so many more diverse areas. She will be a much more interesting person if she doesn’t confine her learning to classes needed for s STEM career. I’m STEM educated and know so many people who have many diverse interests outside it.

@wis75 Most applicants at UW Wisconsin have 4 years of FL? Tell me that’s a slight exaggeration.

Ok, I looked it up and it’s not an exaggeration.

The problem with looking for 4 years of a FL (or more than 2) is that it penalizes low SES students, many of which don’t have the option to take a language that far. UW-Madison has a very low level of SES enrollment (bottom 5% nationally, based on Pell Grant recipients), and factors like this isn’t going to help move that number.

I’m all for well rounded students, but that really seems like over kill for a public flagship university.

I see where Texas A&M is going to completely Holistic admissions for school of engineering starting Fall 2016.
So maybe we do need more than 2 years for FL to remain competitive.

Just hope she doesn’t change her mind along the way. DD was an engineering major…college of engineering at her college required NO foreign language college courses for engineering majors.

BUT she picked up a double major in biology which was in Arts and Sciences…and that required a year of foreign language in college. She was able to only take one term of it due to a placement test at the college.

@Gator88NE When it is an availability issue, the school would never penalize the student for that. When the classes are available but the student chooses not to fulfill the college requirement, then it is an issue of the student. It does not matter if it is due to a lack of interest or ability.