<p>My daughter will be studying journalism or something business related in college. Science and math are not her strong subjects. </p>
<p>She will have taken algebra 1 and 2, geometry, and pre-calc (taken 8th-11th grade). She is planning on taking business math in 12 grade - as recommended by her math teacher because she is not planning on going into a STEM field in college - and a senior year math is required by our state.</p>
<p>For science courses, she has taken geoscience, biology and physics in high school (9-11 grade). Only 3 years of science are required by our state. My daughter feels that she needs to take a 4th year for college admissions. Most of the colleges we are looking at (state publics such as Michigan State, Mizzou, Alabama) "recommend" 3 years - but she's concerned that her schedule will not appear rigorous enough. </p>
<p>She is planning on taking senior year: AP English, journalism, marketing, psychology, 5th year (AP) german and business math. She would have to add a 7th hour to take a science class. I would like to see her have a lighter load senior year - but wanted to get your opinion as to whether it would be poor judgement to not take a 4th year science. </p>
<p>She currently has a 3.7ish GPA and a 30 ACT. I don't think she will have too much difficultly getting accepted into a college that she will like - but we really haven't gotten far in the college search - would hate for lack of a 4th year science to preclude her from being accepted into her college of choice.</p>
<p>Yes - three years of science will be enough for a Journalism major. A lot depends on the college and the major sought. There are no hard-and-fast rules, but if you want to major in STEM at HYPSM, etc. - 4 years of hard science is a plus. JMHO.</p>
<p>I don’t think she will need 4 years of science unless the colleges she is applying to require that. Most want to see 3 years and as long as those 3 years are in high school, not 8th grade, she should be fine.</p>
<p>What is geoscience? Is that like Earth Science? Many colleges want 3 years of a lab science like Biology, Chemistry and Physics. The college websites will tell you what they are looking for in order for a student to be competitive. My D is not strong in math or science either. She took the Sciences that I listed above and now as a HS senior is taking Forensic Chemistry ( elective). She is taking calculus too but struggles in it and I am paying for a weekly tutor so she can pass the class. I had urged her to take pre-calculus instead of calculus but some of the more competitive colleges want to see a more challenging math. She will likely major in criminal justice in college. Speak with your D’s guidance counselor for additional advice.</p>
<p>She’s taking Government/Econ this year (11th). The science course she is considering is anatomy/physiology. She is hoping to avoid Chemistry because of the heavy math component and it has the reputation of being one of the most difficult courses at her high school, for some reason.</p>
<p>Her college choices are limited to instate publics (Michigan State), OOS schools that offer generous scholarships - such as UA, or schools that participate in the Midwest Student Tuition Exchange Program. We don’t qualify for need-based aid and with her stats, there are only a few schools who would offer her enough scholarship money to help cover OOS tuition.</p>
<p>Three years of science is sufficient for many colleges, but some want to see Bio, Chem and Physics. I guess it depends where she ends up applying, but she probably keeps more options open by taking Chemistry. If it was my child, I’d probably have her drop marketing or psych rather than pick up a 7th course. As for math, I’m not sure what business math is at her high school, but if she ends up as a business major, she’ll probably need to take calculus (not the full calculus series, but a calculus for business and social studies majors), and statistics. As long as she’s prepared for that, she’s fine.</p>
<ul>
<li>Some colleges want to see biology, chemistry, and physics in general, although her majors do not require anything in particular.</li>
<li>She needs to be ready to take calculus and statistics if she wants to be a business major (although she can usually take a “calculus for business majors” course in college).</li>
</ul>
<p>Check the college websites she is interested in to see what types of math and science classes they recommend. They will usually say 3 years but of course 4 years are better and will make her more competitive and viewed as having a more rigorous schedule. That may help her get accepted over another student that only did 3 years of math and science. Seniors should not slack off but take a challenging courseload. That is what colleges want to see. My D took an honors chemistry class which caused alot of stress in my household sophomore year because she is not a great math student and chemistry involves a lot of math so she struggled in the class. Again, I had to get a tutor and she somehow managed to earn a “B” in the class. I would definitely recommend 4 years of math and science because it will also help her be more prepared for college. That’s my 2 cents :)</p>
<p>I know that Michigan State has a minimum requirement of 2 years of high school science but “strongly recommends” 4 years of biological and physical sciences (defined as biology, chemistry, physics, or earth science.)</p>
<p>Perhaps she might want to drop the marketing class if she decides to take a science course. Marketing is rarely available in high schools. She’s not going to need the knowledge from that course to succeed in a college marketing course, where it will be assumed that the students have no prior background in marketing.</p>
<p>I’d go with what is strongly recommended rather than required. I kind of think science is important too. The concern is that she may find another school later and be in a tailspin because she doesn’t have the science that one wants. Rigor of curriculum is key, and without science they may question it. That said, she may be fine. The guidance counselor may help (or not, if she’s like ours) but I called D’s first choice and asked about her schedule last year when she was considering taking a study hall. She had 5 AP classes and another tough elective and they said it was fine, but I would have been stressed if I hadn’t called. The closer the decisions get the more nervous you will be and the more you’ll question decisions… So get an answer from the source. :)</p>
<p>My oldest child is a high school junior and it is registration time for next year. So many juniors are thrilled they no longer have to make math or science. A mother of a junior even shared with me she is so happy her child can now be done with math and science because neither subjects were a favorite. I do have to wonder if the counselors and teachers try to quell this enthusiasm a bit and try to talk kids into not stopping these areas of study. At a recent college visit at a Top 20 LAC, an admissions officer shared eighty of their students end up changing their mind about what they want to major in after they get to college. I am sure plenty of those kids still stay within the same general areas(chem. to biochem. or political science to econ) but it did make me think for high schoolers that are undecided about what they want to be when they grow up, it is probably best to keep moving along in the core subject areas, not taking any years off.</p>
<p>Thanks for the all the feedback. It’s interesting how much emphasis continues to be placed on the STEM subjects even for kids who are not remotely interested in pursuing those areas. </p>
<p>I am not disagreeing with any of your points from the standpoint of college admissions - I just, personally, feel that my daughter would be better served by taking and excelling in higher level literature and humanities-type courses rather than taking a science course that she likely will struggle with and will never take any further in college.</p>
<p>In fact, she would be a great candidate for a top LAC were it not for her grades in math and science. Drop those and let her substitute with a literature or world history course and she becomes a top student in her school. </p>
<p>I am an engineer myself, as is my husband, and my son a computer science major - so I have a great appreciation for science and math. My daughter is the complete opposite of the three of us and it has been a wonderful challenge learning how to best meet her needs for creative freedom. It would be nice if the school systems were better able to match the core requirements with the interest and skill sets of the students. </p>
<p>The you for the suggestion of going straight to the source (the schools) for answers. I will definitely do that as we narrow down our college choices.</p>
<p>If she has the option for a non-AP calculus class, IMHO it’ll be easier to get through college-level calc if she’s a) had some previous calc exposure and b) not had a year entirely away from the sequence leading up to calc. So I’d go with that, rather than business math, unless business math at your school is a college-prep class that introduces some calc with business applications. At my D’s school, business math is the class you take if you need another math credit for some reason, but aren’t good enough at math to take either Trig (the normal 4th year math class) or Algebra III (for kids who want to go to college, but aren’t good enough at math for trig).</p>
<p>I agree that if it were my kid, I’d advise trading marketing and psych for chemistry.</p>
<p>Both business math and marketing do not sound like standard high school classes and might be considered fluff classes by colleges. It would help to replace them with calc BC or Statistics and marketing with chemistry or anatomy while still doing 6 classes.</p>
<p>You do want stronger math if journalism is found unappealing and you want to move into business or engineering. Business and engineering majors will be asked to take more intensive math classes in college.</p>
<p>I don’t think she will ever have to take calculus in college…will she? I thought that was only required for stem majors. Is the chemistry recommendation primarily for rigor for the purposes of admission? I don’t think chemistry is a requirement in college, either (for a journalism major.) </p>
<p>If I am mistaken, please let me know. This is what I am trying to figure out. I can see the requirements for the few schools on our radar right now…but that list may grow as we expand our search.</p>
<p>Good point on taking higher level math if she is looking at going into business. Up until recently, she was very much set on journalism (she’s very good at it) but she is concerned about the job outlook. I think she wanted to take marketing as a way to see if she is interested in it as a career.</p>
<p>ACC 201 (Financial Accounting): 3 credits*
ACC 202 (Management Accounting): 3 credits*
CSE 101 DB/SS (Computing Concepts and Competencies): 3 credits*
*Refer to Admission Criteria for information on how these courses are used to determine admission to the Broad College.</p>
<p>MTH 103 (College Algebra): 3 credits
MTH 124 (Survey of Calculus): 3 credits
STT 315 (Introduction to Probability & Statistics for Business): 3 credits</p>
<p>Also…since we are talking about senior year, most colleges won’t even know what courses she is taking prior to her applying. Won’t she already have acceptances by the time they receive her senior year transcript? They wouldn’t rescind an acceptance based on senior year classes…would they?</p>
<p>Also…she got a 31 in Math and a 28 in Science on the ACT - so she is at a pretty good level there…but it’s been a challenge and she would much prefer to apply herself in a different subject.</p>
<p>(No way she’s going into finance, econ, accounting or anything of the like. The closest she would get to business would be advertising, marketing, international business/relations…something along those lines. I guess that’s more ‘communications’ than business.)</p>