Is 34 too old to start a PhD?

Hi,

I joined this forum to get some advice. I’m 33 soon to be 34. I am interested in doing a PhD but am worried that I am too old to start a 5-7 year program of study and still be in a position to land an academic job afterwards.

I have 3 degrees - undergrad in History, Masters in IR and a MPP. All from good schools although not super elite schools.

Anyway, I want to start my PhD in 2015 but cant decide if its worth the risk. I have 5 years of solid work experience although not much savings (I survive). My PhD would probably focus on the impact of lobbying on the legislative process. Is it worth it time wise? Financially? Sans full funding? Career wise?

Please advise.

Well, the first thing is that 34 is definitely not too old to start a PhD program. In my field, work experience is common before beginning a PhD, so most students were between their mid 20s and mid 30s when they began the program. We had a woman in my cohort start when she was 34; she would be 40 now, but she hasn’t finished yet so I can’t speak to how she would fare on the job market. In a more traditional field like history you would definitely be one of the oldest if not the oldest student in your cohort; in a field like IR or public policy, you might find yourself in good company.

Really, it’s all about your own preferences. Can you get through the program at your age? And what I mean by that is not is it possible for you - of course it is, and there are things about your experience that will make it easier than if you were 22, I think (a more narrow focus on an area of inquiry; knowledge of how the working world works; the ability to multi-task; discipline). But more - do you want to? Do you want to live on $25,000 a year, in tiny apartments or shared accommodations, in your late 30s? Do you want to work ~60 hours a week studying and writing and passing exams and taking classes at this juncture of your life?

Now outcomes. What I know I’ve only learned second hand from reading the forums at the Chronicle of Higher Education (which might be a good place to also ask this question, as lots of seasoned professors spend time there). There seem to be mixed answers. Lots of academics say that it doesn’t matter when you begin, that if you do good work in a good program that you can get hired in academic positions afterwards. Lots of academics say the opposite - that, though illegal, age discrimination does happen in the academy, as departments want the potential to get a good 30-40+ years from a new hire. The basic conclusion I’ve drawn is that it’s uncertain, and that different professors will have different biases.

Time-wise, is it worth it? That depends on the person, but I would say that unless you want a job that requires a PhD at the end - and have a reasonably good chance of getting one - it’s not worth it.

Financially? Also depends. I started my PhD program at age 22, and my stipend was $32,000. I likely wouldn’t have made much more money than that had I gotten an entry-level job in my field (my major was psychology). Later in my program I was able to take on additional jobs to tip my total salary up, so that in those years I was making anywhere between $35-45K depending on how many jobs I had. I’m currently a postdoc and I think that my postdoc salary is maybe slightly lower than it would’ve been had I earned a master’s with the work experience I have - but in 2016 or 2017 I’ll be making much more, potentially nearly twice as much as I make now. I borrowed some money for my PhD (mostly transitional living expenses) but far less than I would’ve borrowed for a master’s. So combined with the fact that the PhD enables me to do jobs I really want, I think it was financially worth it.

Would it have been worth it to me if I was already working, content in my field, making - let’s say - around $50-60K a year? Eh. I doubt it, unless I had a burning passion to be a professor or sensed that I couldn’t go any further without a PhD.

It is definitely not worth it without full funding, so don’t consider that, IMO.

Career-wise? That depends on what you decide to get the PhD in and what you want to do. If you want to be a professor (despite knowing that the odds are against you) then you have to have a PhD, so it will be worth it in opening those positions to you. I chose a field in which I knew there were academic and non-academic options, and I think it’s worth it for me career wise.

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The short version of my advice is if you have doubts, I don’t think it’s worth the PhD. And if you could be quite happy doing work that requires a master’s only, then do that instead. I think the PhD should only be pursued if you just have a burning passion to be a scholar and researcher in a specific field and nothing else will satisfy you - or, less dramatically, if you are okay with the idea of spending 5-7 years in school making $25-30K and answering (a) research question(s) that is/are important to you, with the knowledge that you may not use your PhD after you finish anyway - just to have the chance at maybe having an academic or research-related job. I fell into the latter camp because, as I said, that was going to be about what I would make anyway; so why not earn a PhD along the way?

My son-in-law started a doctoral program (fully funded) at UNC last year when he was 31. He’s passionate about what he wants to study and is lucky because my daughter has a full-time job and they can live comfortably. So far, he really enjoys what he’s doing. The one drawback is that his graduate school cohorts are nearly 10 years younger and he finds that they really don’t have much life experience and some of them are pretty immature. It’s taken him a while to find fellow grad students with whom he can relate. Other than that, he’s had a good experience.

Thank you both for your considered replies - especially Juillet, you broke it down excellently and to take that much time out for a complete stranger is an act of deep kindness. I stand humbled.

My biggest concerns are financial and time. Time wise I would be 40 odd at completion and that is an age wherein I see myself truly settled - house (big, pool inc), married, 2 kids ( budding sport star and cheerleader respectively :D/ ) and all that Brady Bunch jazz. :smiley: I cant realistically take 5-7 years from my working life and expect to achieve all that by 40.

Conversely, I have always visualized myself as a college professor. Maybe IR - maybe Public Policy, I don’t know. That is the main issue - I do not think I am so committed to any 1 topic as to pursue a PhD in it. I enjoyed my MA and my MPP but they were 2 years long - structured, taught classes and exams - I am good at that.

Money wise - I am poor anyway so will hardly notice a difference. :frowning:

I do not want to wake up in 10 years and think “damn, I wish I had done my PhD”. Shall I apply and see what happens?

I think people who wake up and think “I really wish I had done my PhD”, more often than not, are people who 1) conceptualize the PhD as an end in and of itself rather than a means to an end, and 2) aren’t fully aware of all of the work and sacrifice that a PhD entails.

Along the same lines, many people visualize themselves as college professors. It seems so wonderful - the opportunity to shape young minds; getting paid to think deep thoughts; being in an intellectual environment all the time. The reality is actually that and yet quite different from that. Those things do happen in the every day life of academia, but the structure of it is usually quite different from the way people imagine.

Think about it this way - you also don’t want to wake up in 5 years and think “Man, why did I do this to myself?!”

If you think that you are not committed to any one topic enough to pursue a PhD in it, then I say definitely don’t do a PhD. While there is room over the course of your career to change your research focus, the changes will mostly be in a relatively narrow way - and early in your career, you will be expected to develop this long-range research agenda that is the natural development of your graduate work. So you’ll be expected to work on relatively the same thing for, I would say, about 15 years (5-7 years of grad school + 0-2 years of a postdoc + 6-7 years on the tenure track). If you like very structured programs and don’t thrive on independence and intrinsic motivation - then academia is also not for you, because that’s the very nature of both the PhD and the work that comes after. (For what it’s worth, though, I initially disliked the unstructured nature of academia and now it’s grown on me some. I would still prefer structured environments, but I can work productively without the structure. However, that is primarily because I work hard to try to inject some structure into it!)

I think that if you know you want to get a PhD, then sure, apply and see what happens. However, in your case, I’m not sure I would recommend that you apply and see what happens. That’s the solution to the question “Am I competitive for a PhD program/would I get into a PhD program?” In your case, we’re a step earlier than that - should I even get a PhD? And I think that applying might muddle the issue for you. The happiness and sense of accomplishment you will feel if you get into a PhD program might confuse the issue at that point, making you want to commit to a program since you did all the work and clearly someone thinks that you’re good enough to go.

Since you have an MA, is there perhaps a nearby college that you could work as an adjunct?

After careful consideration I have opted not to pursue my PhD at this time. I will try and see where I can get with
what I have - which is not a bad hand as it is.

If I change my mind, I’ll be right back here.


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