Is a Computer Science degree even worth it?

College Majors Engineering Majors
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<p>Bioinformatics is not a good field to go into as of right now. It’s a bubble that’s ready to burst.</p>

<p>You have CS majors who aren’t even interested in the subject switching to this field, even though they are overqualified.</p>

<p>Then you have the biology majors switching to this field because they can’t do anything with their biology degree, thus being forced to get an MS in bioinformatics. With zero CS experience prior to the bioinformatics program, they are underqualified.</p>

<p>Everyone is rushing to bioinformatics just like everyone was rushing to CS right before the dot com bubble burst.</p>

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<p>Comparing the dot-com bubble to the current situation is entirely inaccurate.
A bubble is only a bubble when stock valuations no longer reflect the fundamentals of a company-and people start pouring money into these companies.</p>

<p>In that bubble (a true bubble), the NASDAQ hit a peak of 5000. The NASDAQ today is around 2,800 (and that figure includes the growth of the economy). </p>

<p>During the true bubble, companies went IPO left and right, by the hundreds, and many went IPO with billion dollar valuations when they were not even profitable. Companies that lost money (lost it!) were still able to get billion dollar valuations!</p>

<p>Today, the only companies to have gone IPO with large valuations are FB, Zynga, LinkedIn, and Groupon, and all, except Groupon, are profitable (and Groupon actually sells a product). And in contrast to the earlier bubble, the stock market has been highly realistic. Again, a bubble is only a bubble when stock valuations no longer reflect the fundamentals of a company. Groupon’s unprofitability is accurately reflected in its stock price - Groupon has been punished by stock investors, and its price is less than half that of IPO.</p>

<p>The stock market has been IMO very realistic about tech stocks - FB is priced very reasonably and has not seen the 200% stock price gains that were common during the 2000 tech bubble (the exception is LinkedIn, which saw a 100% IPO pop, but at least LinkedIn is a profitable company)</p>

<p>And outside of social media, normal tech stocks are not overpriced or heading into a bubble. Companies like Microsoft, Google, and Apple are seeing very normal P/E ratios between 10 and 20.</p>

<p>A bubble is only able to create a recession because of the investment losses incurred. With the startups and with companies like Quora that you cited, the only people who will lose money if Quora/etc goes under are the venture capitalists who invested in it.</p>

<p>Finally, the tech bubble of 2000 inflated valuations in tech companies by about $5 TRILLION combined ([The</a> dot-com bubble: How to lose $5 trillion – Anderson Cooper 360 - CNN.com Blogs](<a href=“http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2009/11/24/the-dot-com-bubble-how-to-lose-5-trillion/]The”>http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2009/11/24/the-dot-com-bubble-how-to-lose-5-trillion/)), and that is how they were able to affect the entire economy. Social media companies are not worth anywhere near that.</p>

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<p>You can’t really compare the current bubble to the 90s. The internet is the kind of revolutionary technology that comes along once or twice per century. Of course investors back then were bound to go crazy, and the debut of online brokerages brought countless retail investors into the market. Social media sites are an application of existing technology, which is not as revolutionary as the invention of said technology in the first place.</p>

<p>LinkedIn at 1000+ P/E is adequate proof that the market is still irrational. If a company that generated a puny $5M in profit in Q1 '12 is somehow worth $10 billion, I’d rather invest my money in cow manure. How many other companies on the market today have sustained a 4-digit P/E for over a year and counting?</p>

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<p>“Groupon’s unprofitability is accurately reflected in its stock price - Groupon has been punished by stock investors, and its price is less than half that of IPO.”</p>

<p>And conveniently, barring an Enron-style fraud, it always takes the all-knowing market months or even years to realise when a company is a piece of $hit. Eric Lefkofsky and Andrew Mason have cashed out billions in stock; even if Groupon were to go under tomorrow, they wouldn’t need to give a damn as they’d walk away with enough money in the bank to last for the next 100 generations.</p>

<p>The most shocking aspect of the social media bubble (in hindsight) is its timing: the 1990s-style pop on LNKD happened just two years after the worst recession and bear market in a half-century. SillyCon Valley truly does live in its own la-la land.</p>

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<p>Of course your opinion on whether or not Groupon is a good company is not subjective at all and is of course the authority on the matter.</p>

<p>Never mind that Groupon’s lock-up period only ended June 1st, meaning that people owning stock pre-IPO were not able to sell it until less than two weeks ago, when it’s stock was, at $9.6, even lower than it is today.</p>

<p>Never mind that Andrew Mason was only worth around 1.3 billion at the IPO price of around $27, meaning that today he is only worth at most about $500 million.</p>

<p>One stock, or two stocks, does not a bubble make.

Not LinkedIn, which has a P/E ratio of around 600.
Six companies have a four-figure (or more) P/E ratio today: Atlas Energy, American Assets Trust, Cushing Fund, Evolving Systems, Home Federal Bancorp, and Washington Real Estate Investment Trust. So now you’re going to tell me that we currently have a natural gas and oil bubble, a shopping center and office space bubble, an investment fund bubble, and a loaning bubble?</p>

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<p>Student seems to be making a very good argument for why we shouldn’t be buying stock in social media, but not a good argument for why it affects us at all if we don’t.</p>

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<p>I’m going to be a computer science major this fall, so I’m glad there are people who say it’s a worthwhile major.</p>

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<p>Unless you are extremely talented or have an outstanding internship/work opportunity (from big name companies like Google, Apple, Microsoft, etc.), finding a job after graduation could prove to be quite difficult. My dad knows a friend with a son who graduated in 2010 with a computer science degree and he’s still looking for a job.</p>

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Its not a matter of being extremely talented or having outstanding internship/work opportunities. It’s a matter of being realistic and having realistic plans.</p>

<p>I knew I was not the most talented CS major in my program. I was simply an average CS major. I understood this. And then I joined the Army National Guard and became an Infantry officer when I was a junior in college. This provided me with a security clearance. This security clearance allowed me to get my first software engineer position while I was still going to school. This work experience, security clearance, and my leadership abilities allowed me to snag a great gig post graduation - better paid than nearly all of the most talented CS majors.</p>

<p>I faced reality. I developed a course of action and I executed that COA. I saw it through until the end. I created an angle and gave myself an edge - a niche market where even the most talented CS majors could not possibly be my competitors. In this process, I took some risks.</p>

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<p>And with the security clearance come some “extras” that some folks may not care to have in their lives: the constant “prying” of their private lives, the mandatory request (and approval) to leave the USA, even to visit Canada and the slight additional pressure to make sure one stays out any legal trouble (traffic violations or worse) and who you may develop a relationship with (significant other and family should be American, etc).</p>

<p>A few other things too…but right now, I am very happy to have this clearance.</p>

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<p>HA! Like anyone EVER abides by that.</p>

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<p>whoa whoa, this topic is going no where. Every comment for the last two pages has been off topic. </p>

<p>We are discussing the worth of a CS degree at minimum no CS related internships/experience so we have a clear view of how employable the degree is.</p>

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<p>Well…if you really want to get back on topic…</p>

<p>I have a Math/CS degree and was hired by a big company right out of school. I never had an internship and my only prior related work experience was doing some minimal/routine database work for my school’s College of Medicine (15 hours/week).</p>

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<p>rkw102 - life is uncertain. If you want to improve the probability that you will be employed after graduation you need to take steps to make yourself an attractive candidate. See kkuo12887 above. If you get an internship during your college years it will help a lot. Even without any experience I think a CS major is better positioned for employment than most other majors.</p>

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<p>Really? Im a junior just starting to take algs., data structures; etc. I’ve landed 2 OO, 1 job at Intel in Longmont, CO, and a position as a Java Dev. I have a 3.9 from Metro State here in Denver. So, you might be full of bs.</p>

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<p>Aspiring computer science majors would do well to think what their career will be 30 years down the road. Getting the first job is not that difficult, everybody wants a body that works 80 hours a week, plays foosball in the lunch room, pulls the occasional all nighters, and so on.</p>

<p>Reality is a lot different. Companies are not eager to give critical pieces of software to kids fresh out of college. In a few years, maybe 5-7, maybe. </p>

<p>But, the catch is how you get to 5-7 years. In my 28 years as a coder (let’s not pretend it’s not coding) I have seen most of my classmates hired by the big firms (mostly defense, space, and semiconductors) only to bounce from one place to another during the boom and bust cycles.The last decade has brought outsourcing and offshoring to the market as well, and massive layoffs.</p>

<p>A significant chunk of my classmates from the class of '85 ended up at the big semiconductor company in Santa Clara that shall remain nameless. Let’s just say that one (out of many) made it to 25 years. And he made it as a manager.</p>

<p>I know it’s hard to imagine your career 30 years down the road. Very few of my colleagues who have similar tenure with me are actually writing software for a living after all these years. </p>

<p>The key is to stay current with the latest trends, learn a second skill or earn another degree as a specialty (I did), and keep working on sexy projects for a good manager, and forget about making money. My stuff has been shown in 8 of the last 10 CES shows in Las Vegas. 10 years ago our stuff was relatively stone age. Today we’re rolling embedded Linux with cloud and all the trimmings. All done by a team of blue jean wearing, Angry Birds playing, uber-tech 50+ year olds with kids in college (hence CC). </p>

<p>It has been an incredible journey, all doing what I love doing (consumer electronics software and user interfaces) but the key to getting here was to stay current, work hard, and keep a low profile. </p>

<p>Stay current is tough - Linux Kernel class or PTO meeting or golf outing… which one… Work hard, just as much when you work thru holidays year after year or thru blizzards. Keep a low profile, that’s how you get the sexy projects. Make lots of noise and you’re either promoted to a useless management position or are laid off in the next round of cuts.</p>

<p>My suggestion is (a) go to a very good school (b) learn lots of stuff on your own time (c) leave the ego checked at the door and (d) double major in something equally interesting to make you look unique.</p>

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<p>I’m currently in a community college and planning to transfer to ECU to finish my BS in CS. I’m 35 now though as I spent my 20’s in the USAF. I’m just hoping I’m making the right degree choice. I’ve never been a programmer and math has never been me strong suit. I would like to end up getting a job with the DoD after I get my degree and work on getting certifications. Any advice?</p>

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<p>Yes…keep on with that plan.</p>

<p>You have an advantage where many of the decision makers in DoD are military/ex-military. I don’t know your clearance level but I would try to get on some cleared work.</p>

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<p>My Secret clearance will expire before I finish my degree though!</p>

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<p>Well, a secret clearance is pretty much a credit/criminal check so you can get that easily. Filling out darn SF-86 again may be a pain.</p>

<p>Now if you had like a TS or TS/SCI or TS/SCI+Poly…I would have suggested trying to get some sort of cleared job (not requiring a degree), even if part-time just to start that 18-month clock over again.</p>