Is a Georgetown MSFS worth $85k in loans?

Graduate School
1

<p>So I should be thrilled about getting into Georgetown's MSFS program, but instead I'm freaked out about taking on such a massive amount of debt. I'm tempted to go to GW for $50k less. </p>

<p>Would you pay $85k to go to Georgetown? Will an MSFS degree pay me back someday -- in open doors, higher salaries, better network, etc?</p>

<p>For context, I want to be a foreign policy advisor to a politician, or work in another government agency. Will Georgetown get me there better and faster than GW?</p>

2

<p>No way. Seriously, people shouldn't be taking out loans higher than $50K total unless their job salaries guarantees $90K upon entering the job market.</p>

3

<p>Don't you think this would depend on your current student debt and expected income later in your career?</p>

4

<p>ticklemepink,</p>

<p>People take out $200k in loans all the time for law school or med school. Their earnings may eventually be higher if they enter the right field (corporate law, neurosurgery, etc.), but many law school grads for example work for the DA or the USAO and make as little as I will be making. Is Georgetown really that overpriced, in your opinion?</p>

<p>belevitt,</p>

<p>Of course! That's why I mentioned what field I will be going into. No, I have no student loans at the moment, and no debt or obligations of any sort. What do you think about it in that situation, with perhaps a $50,000 starting salary somewhere after graduation, and a partner to share in living expenses and possibly help with loan repayment?</p>

5

<p>What form would the loan be in? Federal? Private? Subsidized? Unsubsidized? What interest rates would you get? For the record, I don't think that 85,000 in student debt would be a problem on 50,000 a year. For comparison, my wife and I have some 60K in debt still and we pay around 330.00 a month with only 20K or so still to pay when we are 10 years in.</p>

6

<p>Sit down and do the numbers. If your expected earnings are X a year, can afford to give Y percent of that to paying off the debts, and you have Z amount in debts with an interest rate I, then after the first year of working you'll have Z<em>(1+I)-X</em>Y%= Z', after the second you'll have Z'<em>(1+I)-X</em>Y% = Z'' etc. For a debt of $85k with a $50k salary and a federal 8% rate of interest, if you allocate 20% of your earnings ($833 a month) to paying the loan you can have it taken care of in sixteen years. Your actual numbers will probably vary though; you'll be paid more than $50k after experience in the field, you won't want to sink such a high amount per month into the loans, your interest rates could be lower.</p>

<p>If you're comfortable with these amounts, then go ahead and accept Georgetown's offer. If it was me, I would go to George Washington for $35k instead so I could pay it off quickly and get on with my life--get a cozy 3-bedroom, take some overseas trips, have a dishwasher....GW isn't exactly a schlump of a school.</p>

7

<p>I am in the exact same situation right now, trying to figure out a life-altering decision that is very similar. I've been accepted to Columbia University's SIPA and waitlisted and George Washington (but have a strong chance of getting in) and am still waiting to hear from American University. I'm trying to determine what exactly it is about Columbia's SIPA that makes it that much better than the top DC schools (other than the fact that its Ivy League). Also, I'm trying to figure out if it's worth it financially to go to SIPA because the tuition is $82K for the two year MA-International Affairs program and factoring in cost of living and other expenses my loan debts will be well above $100K upon graduation. With an 8.5% interest rate (standard for all graduate student PLUS loans, unless you go private and thsoe are risky b/c they are variable interest rates subject to change) that debt will definitely increase to at least $150k++ with the interest. What's your take on that and do you think the price difference b/w GW and SIPA is significant? GW is about $50K for essentially the same MA degree, that's a difference of about $32K...what do you think? Input will be greatly appreciated!!</p>

8

<p>Private loans can be consolidated (though there are very few places still willing to do this for private loans) which locks in a specific interest rate. When the economy improves, private loan consolidation will probably resume. The bigger risk with private loans is that they aren't as happy to offer forbearance or deferral.</p>

9

<p>Thanks, belevitt and tkm256. My partner will have $200k in law school loans by the time he graduates, too. I’m not sure if this makes me more or less happy about the idea of taking on some debt, too. It’s obviously nothing compared to his, but he could be in a better position to pay it off as a lawyer. It really all comes down to me not being sure what I’m comfortable with in terms of debt. Part of me sides with you, tkm, and would rather have a house and some nice vacations! But I may always regret turning down Georgetown to avoid an extra $50k in loans, and have to wake up next to my husband every morning for the rest of my life knowing that his education cost us four times as much!</p>

10

<p>futuregradstudent,</p>

<p>living expenses in new york are extremely high. you should factor in an absolute minimum of $20,000 per year for your degree. so you’d be looking at $120K for your two year MA, not something closer to $100K, before interest is included. and that’s the absolute bottom. you’d be living with a roommate and eating ramen noodles. if you wanted an apartment large enough to turn around in and you’d plan on spending more than $10/day to survive, you’re looking at $30,000/yr, bringing up your debt before interest to $140,000.</p>

<p>don’t underestimate how much it costs to live in new york city. your debt estimates will be much higher than you’re currently anticipating.</p>

11

<p>I have to strongly agree with StrangeLight. New York is heinously expensive. I’ve lived here for two years now, and I swear it has its own monetary system. (Can’t wait to go to DC!) Grad school housing at Columbia may be cheap (and cheap in New York is less than $1500/month) but food is still incredibly expensive, as is going out. Random fact: a watermelon is $10. Anywhere else in the country, it’s probably $4. Multiply this across every item of food you buy, every drink at a bar, every movie ticket…you get the idea. NOT a cheap city. But it’s still the center of the universe! :)</p>

<p>So now that we agree that NYC is overpriced, does anyone think Georgetown MSFS is, too? ;)</p>

12

<p>gigi & Stranglight-Hey thanks a lot for the input on my situation! I do believe you when you say that NYC runs on “its own” monetary system…but is there no where to get decent priced groceries? I’m guessing you’d have to venture out into NJ or some distant borough on the edge of the city to find it if there is. So Strangelight, you are saying that no matter what it’ll probably cost a total of 20k per year to live in NYC? I know that the housing at SIPA is $1100-1800 per month for a studio or 1bdrm, a studio is fine with me actually its preferable. I’ll also be living with my girlfriend and she will probably work a full-time job and she may choose to take the full rent payment if the jobs pays decent (She has an International Business Bachelor’s, I’d think she could make at least 50-55k in NYC). However, I could end up paying half which may be $550-900/month and I’ll most likely work part-time. Also, I’d have help paying the interest each month so it doesn’t accrue until I graduate and get a job. Would a part-time job pay decent with a degree enough to live and pay that half and the other basic living expenses? Obviously we’d be living very very economically, I’m just trying to determine if it’d be possible.</p>

<p>gigi–I do think that SFS is overpriced, and so would be living in Georgetown. I’d have to take a detailed look at their facutly in your specific area to see if they are more accomplished that GW’s faculty in your area. By the way, what are you planning on concentrating in? That is a major part of your decision…also, remember that you’ll only get to experience this once and you want to get the most out of it!! You don’t want to regret turning down G’town if that is really where your heart lies and where you really want to go. I’ve wanted to go to GW for a while now just from looking at their program, but I’m not even sure I’ll get in. I’ll do some more research on both GW and G’town and look at their faculty and tell you what I think…but what is your focus so I know what faculty to look at?</p>

13

<p>No, until u can get a good job</p>

14

<p>groceries will still be expensive in NJ or the boroughs. there might be that one magical farmer’s market that has some cheap groceries, but what you’d spend on public transit to get there might outweigh the savings. maybe not, though.</p>

<p>going to graduate school and working part time will only lengthen the time it takes for you to complete your degree, requiring you to take more loans out for the subsequent year(s) you’ve added to your studies. it’s doable but i would advise against it.</p>

<p>you need AT LEAST 20K, before taxes, to survive in the new york area. even outside manhattan, and especially if you plan on paying back your loans while you’re in grad school. living in a studio apartment with a roommate would be impossible, even if you were sharing a bed. the studios in your price range are 250 sq ft. measure it out with a measuring tape. that is not livable for two people. some would say it’s not livable for one, but i think a person who can space-plan can manage it.</p>

<p>if your roommate is making 50-55K a year and is paying for most of the rent, and you’re only kicking in about $800/month (you could potentially find a 2 bed place for $1600-2000/month, but it would have no living room and no laundry in the building. it would be a kitchen and two small bedrooms and nothing else), you’d have to make sure your roomie is okay with her basically carrying the rent for both of you. if you’re not in a relationship with each other, she may resent that she’s sinking her finances into supporting you through grad school. i know i would. even a 50K salary doesn’t go too far in manhattan. i said two bedrooms for $1600-2000 assuming that your share of the rent would somehow be comparable to hers. you can find nicer two beds in the $2500 range (you have to search for them, though… unless you dig around yourself for places, even $2500 for a nice two-bedroom would be hard to come across), but then she’s carrying much more of the rent.</p>

<p>also, she doesn’t have the job yet. don’t assume she can find a high paying one in manhattan, especially in international business, with just a BA. there are tons of hedge fund managers with a load of experience and they’re out of work right now. they’d be getting those jobs first.</p>

<p>you can take 20K a year and live off of it. you’d need to be really thifty about renting a place for about $1100/month, including your utilities (likely in a borough… studios in manhattan for $1100/month are not unheard of, especially through columbia, but they don’t grow on trees either). you’d have $566/month to live off of. metropasses, which would be a must for you, are around $70/month, so lets be generous and say that leaves you with $500/month. that will have to cover anything not included in your rent (a phone, cable? internet? coin laundry?). with $500/month, you’ve got $16/day to live off of. that will be your food. you won’t have cash for a movie, you won’t be able to go to a bar or a concert, you won’t be able to buy clothing, you certainly won’t have any savings let alone be able to pay off your loans yourself, and you’ll have to count your pennies. it can be done but it would suck. you’ll need to buy your books, too, and that can run you hundreds, even thousands of dollars, depending on your program, at the beginning of the semester. photocopying, the great hidden expense of grad school, could really destroy your monthly budget. if your department lets you photocopy for free, do it!</p>

<p>NYU and columbia humanities students get $22,000/yr from their stipends. the schools seem to think it’s possible to live off this amount provided you have a roommate. and it is. you just have to be incredibly frugal. $30,000 in loans could let you live with a bit of breathing room. you won’t be counting your pennies and you could afford to go out once a week, maybe. you wouldn’t need any more than that if you’re smart with your money. you could realistically take out $24K or $25K in loans per year and survive. $500 is the absolute minimum you’d need in cash left over after rent to really live in manhattan or brooklyn. subway fare adds up, groceries add up, and it would be nice to go out once a month.</p>

<p>jersey’s a lot cheaper. a lot. you can get a two bedroom apartment in jersey city for $1000/month. it’s a short commute to manhattan and it saves you a ton on rent. that is definitely an option and $20K/yr in loans would do you well there. there are some cheap-ish options, i don’t want it to sound like there aren’t, but it’s extremely difficult to find anything in manhattan or brooklyn that is doable on 20K/yr, and in other neighbourhoods you’ll have to start worrying about commuting time, boredom, and security.</p>

15

<p>FutureGradStudnt,</p>

<p>As for your situation, I think it’s risky to count on your girlfriend, as she may not be able to get a job in NY (or anywhere) right now. The job market here is terrible, unfortunately. If you’re lucky enough to be able to find a job for her, having her help with the rent, even if she only pays half, will lower your expenses considerably. You’d need a big studio if two people are going to be living in it, but I don’t agree with StrangeLight that it’d be impossible. You’d just have to make sure that you both have enough space that you’re not in each other’s hair so much that you harm your relationship!</p>

<p>And as for my situation:

  • at Georgetown I’d be studying International Relations and Security (concentration in either US and Comparative Foreign Policy or possibly Security and Conflict Management)
  • at GW it’d be International Affairs (concentration in US Foreign Policy or International Security Studies)
  • at American (which is probably out) it’d be International Affairs (concentration in US Foreign Policy)</p>
16

<p>DO THE NUMBERS!!!</p>

<p>I can’t stress this enough. So few future grad students actually sit down and crunch the numbers before signing on the dotted line.</p>

17

<p>I’m at Columbia right now for my master’s for SEAS. Although yes it is common for prices to be around 1000 if you look for an unfurnished apartment to share with 1 other person, it is much more common (from what I’ve experienced and from what my friends and classmates have experienced) for people to move in with students who already have furnished apartments are looking for an additional person. This is much much cheaper. Although you will frequently have to live with more than 1 other person, the savings makes it worth it, especially since as a grad student you won’t be staying at home much anyway. For example, right now I’m staying in a 2 bedroom with a dude (non student) who has been living here for ~10 years. I found the listing on Columbia and was incredibly fortunate to get a price of $700/month (+50 for internet), fully furnished, laundry INSIDE the apartment, and located 10 blocks from campus.</p>

18

<p>Thanks for the extremely detailed response…that is very very helpful! Right now I’m really hoping I get the on campus housing that goes from $1100-1800 depending on whether you get a studio or a 1 bedroom. I can tell you that the way I grew up, I’ve experience alot of struggle with my single uneducated mother and sister, even to the point of having no electricity and no where to go at times. I think that I should be able to deal with living super economically in a very small studio apartment, as long as it does have a small area to prepare food and a place to sleep and go to the bathroom ; ). Also, I don’t think we really care how small it is as we will be sharing the bed and hey do what you have to do, if that means not having a bedroom. We are very anxious to move, I have been stuck in the midwest for a few years now and I absolutely hate it. She really wants to move to NYC and if we do go there I know she’ll be happy pretty much regardless if we have to deal with the small apartment. </p>

<p>I guess what I shouldn’t do though is assume that she will even get a job with just a Bachelor’s like you said and I should also assume the worst on the housing situation (that I won’t get the on-campus housing) and I should start really looking around online to see what all is out there and really get into the details of “crunching the numbers”. I think I have quite a bit of time since school will start in August. Basically, she is cool with carrying the majority of the load while I’m in grad school, and for one thing its because after I’m done she’ll be in medical school and I’ll have to turn around and pay most of the bills. However, while I’m in school I will try to work as little as possible to keep my focus on school and doing well. What I am really hoping for though is that she can find a job (even if it is not the greatest) that pays the most that she can get–hopefully at the very least that’ll be 45k, but who knows in this economy. From what the way it sounds…jobs are pretty sparse there too, as they are here. I have two degrees and haven’t been able to find a job for a few months. But if we absolutely had to we could move over to Jersey as you said. But overall, we have a lot of research and number crunching to do!</p>

<p>I do agree that 20k would be pushing it for an amount to try to make it on in Manhattan or almost anywhere in NYC, that sucks that Columbia and NYU think that you can make it on that, but hey I wasn’t offered a dime in fellowship/assistantship/stipend money. If I was by myself I would be in a very very tough situation…I’d have to borrow the money on that high 8.5% interest rate and get raped on the interest accrual each month. If you do have 22k per year in stipends you should be appreciative that you do at least have that and if you have to you should probably just take out some loans to supplement that amount, so you don’t completely stress out about finances.</p>

<p>gigi-When I visited the GW campus, I asked them a TON of questions and I was really being that annoying person who comes in and asks too many questions, but I did get a pretty decent feel for the situation there. I know that the Security Studies Program at GW is very very tough to get into just from talking with people there and they usually like to take people who are already working in the field somewhat. So, I would say that my overall impression is that their Security Studies Department is very good and you would probably have some/if not all of the same professors for your courses if you choose to concentrate in International Security Studies. They seem to offer a variety of classes related to the field and I know that they offer quite a bit of Intelligence-related classes if you are looking for that at all. However, just quickly looking at the courses offered at G’town…it looks like they have quite a vast array of Security coursework: [Georgetown</a> University](<a href=“http://schedule.georgetown.edu/09A/09A239.html]Georgetown”>http://schedule.georgetown.edu/09A/09A239.html)</p>

<p>Also, consider that the actual degree is different in that at G’town its a Master of Science in Foreign Service w/ a concentration in International Relations and Security (and your chosen subfield–Security and Conflict Management). But at GW its an MA in International Affairs with your chosen major field of Security Studies and your chosen regional focus. That is just one glaring difference that may or may not matter to you, they will both look different on a resume (for what that’s worth). Also, you’d want to compare the core courses required for both and looking at both of them, they are very similar except for that G’town additionally requires that you take an Analytical and Statistical Skills course that GW does not. Honestly, the price difference and relatively similar comparison in programs would have me leaning toward GW, but I’ve also been looking at going to GW for years now. I don’t know if you are leaning toward G’town but thats what it seems like and if I was you I’d just take another very close look and comparison of the programs and the price. That price difference is about 40K, which you personally could do a lot with, remember it is your debt–not necessarily your husband’s and you’ll probably be the one paying it off. But you should also remember how important it is to be happy with and not regret your decision! Sorry I know its a tough one!!</p>

19

<p>Gigi16, I am in the exact same situation…same idea with International security studies and International Affaris. I am deciding between GW and MSFS and would appreciate hearing from anyone who has decided on one over the other…I go back and forth between the two every day. The price of MSFS is staggering, but the students seem to really like the program where as I’ve spoke to a lot of apathetic GW grad students who feel that they didn’t get much out of their experience. Thoughts?</p>