<p>Hello Med School experts!
I'm a long-time poster but first time on the Pre-Med forum.</p>
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<li> D is graduating undergrad in May 2012, but has not taken the MCAT, and will not have time to prepare for a June sitting. She would like to sit in September following a summer of study. She could then apply before the Nov 1, 2012 deadline. Is this a doomed plan because most applicants will have been accepted during a rolling process during the summer, or are most decisions about applicants made after the Nov 1st date, when admissions can see the whole pool of applicants?<br></li>
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<p>Background: she's got a fairly average med-school-admitted GPA from an Ivy, will interview well, and has some meaningful clinical and research hours, plus significant college leadership experience. She'll probably look competitive, but is not a "top" applicant because of GPA. MCAT- I would guess will be pretty good but not over the top. She's planning to apply to state schools.</p>
<p>1.a. Would she be better off taking the MCAT at her leisure next year and accruing some more volunteer/shadowing and research hours rather than rushing the process? This would put her med school start date two years after graduation. I know the average med student starts at 24 so there's no big rush from that standpoint, but she's certainly going to be ready to start a year after grad- a two year gap doesn't sound all that appealing.</p>
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<li> In-state tuition question. Should we just assume there's no way to gain in-state tuition for a student who will basically be a dependant for all practical purposes? Just trying to make sure we understand the real cost of each school.</li>
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<p>Thanks so much- I've studied this forum for a few hours and see some great wisdom lurking out there.</p>
<p>Too late. Take a year off. Even submitting in July is considered “late” but still in ok shape. It takes time for AMCAS to process the application (mine took 4 weeks to process). September is pretty much severely harming your chances at admissions.</p>
<p>Not sure if I understand your in state question, but your D will be considered in state for the state you reside in.</p>
<p>From D’s experience, the best is to prep. for MCAT while still in school and the best is to take it few days after final exams while material is fresh from prep. to finals. My D. did this in her Junior year, got decent score, not as high as her GPA, but fine. She is MS1 at private Med. School, coming from state UG.
I do not understand your in-state tuition question. IS is lower than OOS at publics and the same at privates as far as I know. D. has applied to mixture, was accepted at 2 publics and 2 privates, but since we did not pay UG tution we told her not to worry about Med. School cost. In our state the difference between public and private is not great because the price of last 2 years of Med. School is about the same. I heard it might depend on state though.</p>
<p>Thanks bigred and Miami. hmmm not the news I was hoping to hear.</p>
<p>About OOS tuition: I think we have to research each state to see what the hoops are for attaining in-state status, just like with undergrad. For one thing, FAFSA considers everyone under 23 to be a dependant. But in the case where a 24 year old starts school med school at a public, paying OOS, how hard is it to attain in-state standing and pay the lower tuition for the last three years? I’m pretty familiar with California rules about in-state/OOS since one of our kids is an undergrad there, and boy have they tightened up the rules! I’m guess each state has it’s own idea about applying the rules.</p>
<p>I don’t think you can play both sides: by this I mean providing significant financial support for your adult student with med school costs in another state, and having them also declare themselves independent and a resident of the other state to receive the in-state tuition break. I’ll be doing some homowork on this.</p>
<p>In-state vs OOS: All medschool students are considered as independent. However, as an applicant, in almost all cases (unless she is a very non-traditional applicant, say, she lives in a state AND works there for, say, one full year or even two years before application), its in-state or OOS state usually depends on the state whether her parents live, independent of which OOS college she went to.</p>
<p>Most loopholes are closed because of the dire financial situation of the state government.</p>
<p>For medical school’s financial aids (free money or a “better deal” loans, not the typical federal/private loans) purpose, it is usually the parents’s income and assets which determine whether the student would get any relief, for almost all students. It has nothing to do with whether the students are independent or not, as ALL students are independent from federal government’s point of view.)</p>
<p>It appears to me that, if a student does not submit parent’s financial information, he is automatically considered as being from a wealthy family and is disqualified from being a “better-deal” financial aids recepient.</p>
<p>DD did an August MCAT after her junior year, that was deemed too late for the application cycle that fall. Anything after July application is considered very late, some people still get in that way, but it is dicey.</p>
<p>If your DD is going to take a 2 year gap, she can establish her own residency in the state of her choice, most likely.</p>
<p>Be sure she takes her senior year to make great connections and to get LORs submitted to one of the online services so they are done whilst the student is fresh in the prof’s mind.</p>
<p>During the gap year, look for medically related employment, like medical research assistant so she can support herself and also get application related experience.</p>
<p>What is the OOS/IS question? Are you a resident of state A and she wants to apply to state B? If so, she should become a resident of that state a full year before the app time, be sure to download the residency form so she dots all the i’s and crosses all the t’s.</p>
<p>I just looked at some past posts, looks like you are in CA. Is that right? Is your residency question whether your DD attending OOS can still be counted as a CA resident? If she is your dependent and you are a CA resident, she can apply as a resident.</p>
<p>Be aware that CA med schools have some of the very highest stats averages, high GPAs and high MCATs are expected. Perhaps your DD will want to be a resident in her UG state? ;)</p>
<p>hi somemom,
No we’re not from California, but are in the west in a rectangular state with one in-state med school option. It’s a good one, though, and I think if this were purely a financial decision it would make the most sense to go after that one and not have her do any moving and job start-up in the hopes of getting into another school. </p>
<p>Knowing all med students are independant simplifies our thinking: depending on where she gets in we can weigh the costs without pondering the OOS rules for each state. And as a parent of another kid at a UC, we’ve definitely watched the rules clamp down on the OOS families. I don’t begrudge this- we haven’t paid our share in taxes there.</p>
<p>If she decides a med school in another state is a fairly likely admit after taking the MCAT, and that it offers a decidedly better match for what she’s looking for in her med education, with a two year gap, she would have time to relocate and qualify for in state. </p>
<p>Thanks for all the help- I think we’re getting a handle on this…</p>
<p>*D is graduating undergrad in May 2012, but has not taken the MCAT, and will not have time to prepare for a June sitting. She would like to sit in September following a summer of study. She could then apply before the Nov 1, 2012 deadline. Is this a doomed plan *</p>
<p>This was exactly the plan that my friend’s D used this last year. Studied over summer, MCAT in Sept. Disaster. No interviews. Will have to do next year’s app cycle. So, all those apps were a waste of time and money. </p>
<p>Seems like schools fill up their interview spots early. If the student is a valuable URM, then maybe it would work, but not for a typical non-URM. </p>
<p>* For one thing, FAFSA considers everyone under 23 to be a dependant*</p>
<p>Not true…once you have a BS degree, you’re independent…even if you’re 20 or whatever.</p>
<p>The “under 24” rule is for those seeking an undergrad degree.</p>
<p>However, some med and law schools do ask for parent info…but that doesn’t change the fact that FAFSA considers those with BS degrees as independent.</p>
<p>If your D moves to another state after graduation, she’d have to live there a year before applying. That’s a risk because she may not get accepted to that state’s public SOM.</p>
<p>mom2, thanks for telling your friend’s story and to all for clarifying grad versus undergrad dependence definition. Why isn’t this stuff easier to find?! CC comes through, as usual.</p>
<p>No such thing as a “fairly likely admit” in Med school admissions which are often even more of a crap shoot than applying to Ivies for undergrad.</p>
<p>eadad, I agree. We’ve looked at the numbers at each school and it looks like admit rates are at best about 50% and actually closer to less than 10% in most cases, and I mean for applicants whose stats fit the admitted student profile.</p>
<p>I should have said “has a chance in hell of being admitted”.</p>
<p>We’ve looked at the numbers at each school and it looks like admit rates are at best about 50%</p>
<p>Which med schools have a 50% admit rate? Didn’t know that there were any. Maybe one that only accepts instate kids??? </p>
<p>Be aware that some SOMs only accept instate kids and there are some privates that give a preference to instate kids (I think Baylor is one) because (I think) the state provides money to have that preference.</p>
<p>I believe that Ole Miss and LSU only accept instate kids. There probably are others. </p>
<p>I think there are some state schools that will accept students from states that don’t have a med school because their states have some kind of agreement with that SOM. Others can clarify.</p>
<p>That said, it seems that if a student has “all the right stuff” (GPA, MCAT, ECs) and applies to a well-thought-out list, he/she can have about a 85% chance of admittance to at least one SOM. </p>
<p>If you look at the success rate of those who have posted here, the success is high. I think that’s because many have the 3.5+ GPA, 30+ MCAT with leveled scores, and appropriate ECs…and they’ve consulted with others to come up with good app lists. </p>
<p>The ones who’ve posted w/o success have had issues…a low section on the MCAT, lowish GPA, a list of only top SOMs, etc.</p>
<p>ECU only accepts in-state students. UNC-Chapel Hill gives preference to in-state.</p>
<p>If accepted to UNC SOM as an OOS your first year for tuition purposes is OOS. If you do all the things they suggest you can be re-evaulated for in-state for years 2-4. University of Washington also does this, OOS tuition for year 1, re-evaluate for years 2-4.</p>
<p>Wake Forest has no real preference towards NC residents. Favors OOS. Private tuition all 4 years.</p>
<p>FAFSA and fill out parental info if you want “institutional” aid vs. only federal aid. Need Access forms for the ivy’s and other schools. Similar to College Profile, but not too terrible. Some schools have their own financial aid forms as well.</p>
<p>Keep in mind that there are other options, except student loans. They are not cheap, the % is not that great and there are fees to pay for them. We use equity line and pay out of payroll checks. It is lower rate and % is tax deductible.</p>
<p>mom2college, the 50% figure I came up with was what I predict for my daughter at some schools she’s looking at based on her GPA and possible MCAT score (guessing she might be able to get a 30). Some schools have really clear matrices that show acceptance rates on tables with GPA and MCAT- you’ve probably seen these as well.</p>
<p>I’m not factoring in some other things she’ll have on her application that will help her, and she doesn’t have any skeletons in the closet, so maybe higher than 50% at some less selective schools and the one where she has the in-state bump.</p>
<p>I certainly wasn’t trying to generalize that there’s any school with a 50% acceptance rate! Sorry for confusion I might be causing to readers.</p>
<p>I don’t think she’ll qualify for aid, so we’re really just comparing prices and looking into the OOS to IS shift that some schools offer. I had read on the U Washington site that they automatically offer in-state tuition pricing for the last three years. I’ll be looking for more transparent offers on SOM financial pages, although as we all know, those OOS spots are hard to come by in most states.</p>
<p>We’re also getting our heads around the idea that, while medical school is expensive, the income potential is also still good, and the difference in cost between schools also isn’t all that significant in the scheme of income over a medical career.</p>
<p>Please don’t lecture me about decreasing physician income- I’m married to one, so I have an insider view into how all that works. The landscape is changing, but it’s still a good living, and justifies the cost of medical school if that’s your calling.
The effort to undergo the training, and the work involved in running a successful practice that provides high-quality care also justify physician incomes, IMO.</p>
<p>I haven’t looked at private school costs yet, assuming publics are cheaper. Any generalizations from you all on that topic?</p>
<p>We too are from a rectangular Western state w/one IS Med school option, so no WWAMI for us. We too are trying to get a handle on med school costs, but right now they all look so high that I wonder if it’s going to be a non-factor in making the list, and become important when (hopefully) a decision on which admitted school to attend is made. I don’t know, right now there’s just too much information as well as too many unknowns to absorb :(.</p>
<p>Private school costs are usually higher, but private schools might be able to give better financial aid. Also, if you can land a nice scholarship at a private school, it might end up being cheaper than attending a state school.</p>
<p>One thought on an August MCAT, check SDN forum to see the timing of your state school from prior years. If they are not giving interviews until Oct/Nov rather then July/Aug, you could submit the app in June of 2012, get the LORs & transcripts in, read old secondary questions at SDN. Go ahead and apply in 2012 to ONLY your state school, as soon as the secondary invite comes through, submit that prepared secondary.</p>
<p>That MIGHT work in some states which have a more laid back schedule. And if it does not work, it was not that expensive, just the one school. I would not bother doing a full round of med schools apps in 2012, just the state school, IF it is a later processing state.</p>
The landscape is changing, but it’s still a good living, and justifies the cost of medical school if that’s your calling.