It only feels wrong if the only purpose of a high school diploma is to indicate that the graduate meets the course work requirements to enter a university (and even then, s/he may not meet grade requirements). But not all high school graduates intend to go on to bachelor’s degree study at a university.
Also, most states’ public higher education systems do have community colleges that can provide second chances for those who did not prepare for university admission while in high school (due to course selection, grades, or not graduating).
That said, a high school student who intends to major in a science in college should take the highest level of math available to him/her in high school.
Of course I agree that someone who wants to study science should be taking all the math and science they can. But someone who wants to be a kindergarten teacher has to go to a community college before getting into an ed school because they didn’t take calculus? They need a “second chance” even though they might have a terrific high school record in the courses that would indicate success as an elementary school teacher? Or artist, or actor, or journalist, or coach, or … gosh, you name it. I guess we have different ideas of what’s right and just and fair and sensible. I hope kids in those schools are getting appropriate counseling.
What state university requires calculus for admission (and not all high school students will reach calculus in high school anyway even if they take math all four years)? For example, as noted above, state universities in California only require algebra 2 as the minimum requirement (although higher level math may be effectively needed at more selective campuses or majors). Though I would hope that an elementary school teacher would know enough math to be able to work with the occasional math prodigy student who shows up every few years.
I certainly hope that artists and (especially) journalists have some semblance of well rounded education, including math and science (the journalists need some basic understanding of the subject matter that they may have to write about), just as scientists and engineers benefit from knowledge of the humanities and social studies. An athletic coach may study a subarea of biology or physiology in college, which may require calculus and statistics.
Well, yeah, they’re not going to specify calculus, but what’s the 4th year after Algebra I and II and Geometry? And what’s the logic for anything higher level at all (pre-calculus or whatever) for everyone? I do hope there’s flexibility for something like Life Math (which is a reasonable requirement), but I don’t know if that’s the case. And I sincerely hope that the counselors in states with colleges that require 4 years of math but high schools that often don’t are giving good advice … but somehow I feel that the poorest schools, with kids whose parents know less about college, don’t always get the most proactive counselors. I hope I’m wrong and lots of kids aren’t falling through the cracks through no fault of their own – except, of course, for being young, less privileged, and not liking math.
The California public universities do not require four years of math for admission. In any case, the usual next course for someone who has completed algebra 1, geometry, and algebra 2 is precalculus (including trigonometry). For most college-bound students, completing at least that level is strongly advised, in order to be ready for calculus if one’s major requires it. Statistics is useful knowledge, and may be an acceptable alternative for college-bound (or non-college-bound) students who know that they will not study anything that needs calculus.
It is true that students in schools in low income areas may suffer from lack of good counseling, but that is not specific to math, since university entrance minimums tend to be higher than high school graduation minimums in many subjects (English, foreign language, etc.).
Glad to hear they don’t require it in CA. You did say earlier that CA state schools require 4 years of math through Algebra II … so, what if kids finish Algebra II in junior year? Are they then exempt? Or do they need 4 years of high school math? (Hope it’s the former.)
Btw a “semblance of well rounded education” that exposes future journalists, coaches, kindergarten teachers, sculptors, opera singers etc to math isn’t the same as a need to be able to personally perform higher level math to the point of passing exams at increasingly more arcane levels. Journalists don’t need to do Algebra (let alone higher math) to write about changes in math requirements at the school board. Coaches don’t need Geometry to figure out their team stats. The reason it makes sense to require Math up to Algebra II in high school isn’t because most people will need it – they absolutely won’t – but because it’s really not fair to block the options of kids who might discover that they want to go into the sciences. Kids at that age need to keep a lot of doors open. But it does become clear during high school who is going in what direction – and for many kids, it really won’t include math.
So IMO any requirements beyond the basics is … well, gosh, it reminds me of the old Chinese bureaucratic system that required clerk candidates to be able to write poems. I suppose the clerks who had passed that system and were great at poetry thought it was very important, too.
If you just want the basics, fine, go to a basic college with minimal requirements. But if you want a rigorous college experience, show them you knew to choose hs rigor. And did well. That’s what the competition is doing.
This fuss about not taking calc as a protest…well you reap what you sow.
Like Harvard, Stanford and Princeton? None of them require four years of math. So a kid could theoretically blaze through Algebra II with flying colors, drop Math for senior year, ace the SATs, and get into Harvard but not University of Maryland Eastern Shore (where 31 % of incoming freshmen have GPAs under 2.49) or the University of Colorado at Colorado Springs (92% admit rate) because, well, she didn’t have those magic four years of math in high school. Interesting definition of “rigor.”
My problem isn’t with the existence of rigorous standards at rigorous private colleges. It’s with an arbitrary rule at less rigorous public colleges that make those colleges less accessible to the very population they theoretically exist to serve.
4years can mean integrated math 1-2-3-4 which sometimes covers algebra1&2plus geometry at a slower pace. 4years may mean algebra 1, geometry, business math, and quantitative literacy (or a year of remedial math as is the case for Eatern shore applicants then the sequence above ). It can mean statistics after algebra2or pre calculus if students are college bound and aren’t very good at this type of math. The expectation is that college bound students will have completed pre calculus since calculus is required for stem fields as well as business. At most top 50 universities and lacs a good percentage will have taken calc - ap or not, bc or ab - and will then take it at the faster pace and with the more in-depth content of college. Humanities and social science majors are better off taking statistics than calculus after pre calculus unless of course they enjoy this type of math.
As for a sophomore or junior so gifted they completed calculus bc , they’d be considered to have reached a level higher than 4 years but colleges would wonder why a gifted kid accelerated to that point then gave up. Finally there’s the issue of math being sequential which means that one year without it can be problematic if the student expects to continue with it.
My D has no interest in STEM field but she’s taking AP Calc BC and AP Stats senior year. Five solids every year math, English, social studies, science and foreign language. The top students today take math all 4 years regardless of their interests. As noted above who knows what major they might end up liking sophomore year of college
I said that they require 4 years of English, not 4 years of math. For the state universities in California, the minimum math requirements are complete once the student passes geometry and algebra 2 with C or higher grades (D or F grades in algebra 2 can be replaced by C or higher grades in precalculus or calculus as well). In theory, that means that a student can fulfill the minimum math requirements with just two years of high school math. (There are also standardized test and college course options.)
Of course, being competitive for more selective campuses and majors may mean higher level math than that.
Journalists may need algebra, geometry, and additional math to understand statistics and science, which they may write about. Coaches may need it to understand biology and physics as they relate to exercise.
MomOAL, H, S, and P each note four years of math. It’s on their web sites.
There are schools which will be happy with three years. And there are schools also satisfied with graduating hs, having at least a C average. You find what works for you.
And there are cases where a kid doesn’t have the full suggested prep but otherwise stands out.
OP was suggesting her son might be better off “exploring” business. In some cases, fine. In others, not. know your college targets.